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Old 11/11/09, 10:47 AM   #2371
thedopefishlives
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Baelgun
Whereas the full ilevel 258 set I put together with Rawr had a whopping 1019 crit rating, which is so far beyond the cap that the 2T8 bonus loses ~75 dps. It's certainly possible to put together a set with a lot less crit rating and run 2T8+2T9; the Optimizer is far from perfect. I'm just saying, it was an observation that I noticed when playing around with gear sets, and it's certainly achievable with the high item level gear.

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Old 11/12/09, 6:54 AM   #2372
Poggen
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
T10 stats just datamined.

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Old 11/12/09, 9:09 AM   #2373
thedopefishlives
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Baelgun
Originally Posted by Poggen View Post
T10 stats just datamined.
I played around with Rawr and the T10-264 gear. It's probably not a surprise to anyone here, but if you're wearing the 258 level T9, assuming these are the stats and not placeholders, you're still going to be wearing 2T8+2T9 for a while yet. The 4T10 set bonus may be the strongest 4-set out of them all, but the 2T10 is showing so weak and the 2T8 and 2T9 bonuses are so strong that it's just not enough. One interesting thing I did notice, though, is that it dropped the [Legwraps of the Awakening] for the T8 legs and swapped in the T9 gloves, because the T10 helm is overwhelmingly strong.

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Old 11/12/09, 11:07 AM   #2374
Boswell
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by ninor View Post
Maybe this is just strategy differences, but I don't understand why people value AoE so highly on Anub hardmode. It's fairly simple to reach the raid AoE dps required for the trash, and I think it's much more important to reduce the length of p3 as much as possible? It just seems a lot more relevant to focus on our single target dps, and let the AoE part of the fight be more of an afterthought. I do maybe 5-6 hurricanes in total in that fight, and I wouldn't swap in 4T9 for that over 2T8.
What you said has some truth but also a lot of emphasis was put on AoE because of the lack of gear people had when they first did the encounter. Now that we've been saturated in >=245 gear to no end, DPS isn't as challenging as it would be in <=239 gear.

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Old 11/12/09, 11:20 AM   #2375
Lord BEEF
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
So it seems we'll have to wait for 4pc t10 before we start breaking the other set bonuses, is that right? Or do we need the higher level T10 set pieces assuming they exist?

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Old 11/12/09, 11:33 AM   #2376
Orin
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Twisting Nether
I suspect Blizzard will nerf 2t8 bonus if people actually continue to use it instead of T10/T9 combos. I'm surprised they haven't already, they did it to the Resto 4t8.

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Old 11/12/09, 11:56 AM   #2377
thedopefishlives
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Baelgun
Originally Posted by Lord BEEF View Post
So it seems we'll have to wait for 4pc t10 before we start breaking the other set bonuses, is that right? Or do we need the higher level T10 set pieces assuming they exist?
It's looking like we'll probably need the higher level T10 set pieces. I don't think it would take much of a buff to the 4T10 to make it worth using over 2T8+2T9, but I haven't investigated that far yet.

EDIT: Through some playing around, buffing 4T10 to 7% of the spell damage for the dot would make it pull roughly even with a 2T8+2T9 setup. Anything higher than that, and 4T10-264 would be worth getting. I don't really see how they could cleanly change the 2T10 set bonus, since it's tied to Clearcasting, so it looks like we'll be sitting on 2T8+2T9 until we can get the 4-piece.

Last edited by thedopefishlives : 11/12/09 at 12:30 PM.

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Old 11/12/09, 12:52 PM   #2378
Erdluf
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Echo Isles
Originally Posted by Orin View Post
I suspect Blizzard will nerf 2t8 bonus if people actually continue to use it instead of T10/T9 combos. I'm surprised they haven't already, they did it to the Resto 4t8.
It might happen, but Resto Druids were widely considered to be overpowered in Ulduar.

I don't think that is true of Moonkin at t7, t8, or t9. I don't see any reason to expect it in t10.

If that is correct, it seems like buffing 2t10 (which is perhaps 3-4% on a PW fight) or 4t10 would be more appropriate.

A 2t10 buff might be in the form of fixing Omen of Clarity, so that spells see 3.5 ppm (off of base cast times, Starfire=20% proc) rather then the current 3.5 ppm (off of 1s cat auto attack, SF=5.8% proc).

Last edited by Erdluf : 11/12/09 at 1:04 PM. Reason: fix value of 2t10

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Old 11/12/09, 1:12 PM   #2379
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Erdluf View Post
It might happen, but Resto Druids were widely considered to be overpowered in Ulduar.

I don't think that is true of Moonkin at t7, t8, or t9. I don't see any reason to expect it in t10.

If that is correct, it seems like buffing 2t10 (which is perhaps 3-4% on a PW fight) or 4t10 would be more appropriate.

A 2t10 buff might be in the form of fixing Omen of Clarity, so that spells see 3.5 ppm (off of base cast times, Starfire=20% proc) rather then the current 3.5 ppm (off of 1s cat auto attack, SF=5.8% proc).
Is that how it is now? 5.8% for all spells? I think I missed when someone determined this. Need to add both bonuses to WC.


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Old 11/12/09, 1:50 PM   #2380
Pyowin
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Boulderfist
I am a little curious as to how the 4t10 bonus will actually work (or at least how you're modeling it). I mean if you have consecutive wrath/starfire crits in under 4 seconds, will the DoTs stack, refresh or override the previous crit's DoT? Or will each crit apply its own separate DoT (so you could have up to 4 separate DoTs ticking at the same time)? If it's the last case, why doesn't blizzard just have the set bonus be to increase crit damage by x%, it would seem like that would be a lot easier to implement. On the other hand, if the DoT's get overridden by additional crits, then this is effectively no bonus since the DoT won't even get a chance to tick. Basically, nothing about the 4t10 set bonus makes any sense to me no matter how I interpret the tool tip.

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Old 11/12/09, 2:21 PM   #2381
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Pyowin View Post
I am a little curious as to how the 4t10 bonus will actually work (or at least how you're modeling it). I mean if you have consecutive wrath/starfire crits in under 4 seconds, will the DoTs stack, refresh or override the previous crit's DoT? Or will each crit apply its own separate DoT (so you could have up to 4 separate DoTs ticking at the same time)? If it's the last case, why doesn't blizzard just have the set bonus be to increase crit damage by x%, it would seem like that would be a lot easier to implement. On the other hand, if the DoT's get overridden by additional crits, then this is effectively no bonus since the DoT won't even get a chance to tick. Basically, nothing about the 4t10 set bonus makes any sense to me no matter how I interpret the tool tip.
I believe at the moment we're all imagining it will work like Ignite.


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Old 11/12/09, 2:29 PM   #2382
thedopefishlives
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Baelgun
Originally Posted by Pyowin View Post
I am a little curious as to how the 4t10 bonus will actually work (or at least how you're modeling it). I mean if you have consecutive wrath/starfire crits in under 4 seconds, will the DoTs stack, refresh or override the previous crit's DoT? Or will each crit apply its own separate DoT (so you could have up to 4 separate DoTs ticking at the same time)? If it's the last case, why doesn't blizzard just have the set bonus be to increase crit damage by x%, it would seem like that would be a lot easier to implement. On the other hand, if the DoT's get overridden by additional crits, then this is effectively no bonus since the DoT won't even get a chance to tick. Basically, nothing about the 4t10 set bonus makes any sense to me no matter how I interpret the tool tip.
Think of it like the mage's Ignite. When a critical hit occurs, the dot damage for that crit is added to whatever dot damage is left, and the dot's timer is reset to zero. Your last argument, about it never getting a chance to tick, makes absolutely no sense; it will always tick at least once, and the only time you would lose damage from it is if you managed to chain 1-second Wrath crits from the beginning of a fight all the way to the end, in which case the final 3 ticks would not deal any damage. Since such a scenario would never occur, it is most certainly worth quite a bit of damage. Now, I represented it in Rawr optimistically as a simple 5% multiplier on the critical strike damage of Starfire and Wrath, which would correspond to an Ignite-style dot that never munches any ticks.

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Old 11/12/09, 2:48 PM   #2383
Erdluf
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Echo Isles
Originally Posted by Arawethion View Post
Is that how it is now? 5.8% for all spells? I think I missed when someone determined this. Need to add both bonuses to WC.
It is looking to me as if something has changed. Someone should check their own logs to see.

Ony:
5 Melee hits (1.8s weapon): 1 OoC proc.
4 Starfall casts: 1 OoC proc (on cast, not on damage).
64 Wrath casts: 0 procs.
22 SF casts: 0 procs.
396 Hurricane ticks: 10 procs (including 3 at once).
15 MF casts: 3 procs.
17 IS casts: 1 proc.

ToC5:
24 SF: 1 OoC (during Starfall, I suppose it could have been a Starfall proc)
1 Abolish Poison: 1 OoC proc.
18 MF: 2 OoC proc.
4 Starfall: 1 OoC proc.
18 IS: 3 OoC proc.
70 Wrath: 0 OoC procs

Proc rate on instants seems fairly high. Procs on SF and Wr seem to have disappeared. That is a big change. I'm questioning my logs and/or analysis.

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Old 11/12/09, 3:28 PM   #2384
h3llraiser
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Archimonde
Originally Posted by Arawethion View Post
I believe at the moment we're all imagining it will work like Ignite.
I believe you are right sir.

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Old 11/12/09, 7:56 PM   #2385
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
I've been thinking the Spell Rotation part of the TTT guide isn't totally clear, I might update it some. While thinking about that, I figured I should try to write down our decision tree for casting precisely. Here's what I came up with:

if (Lunar Eclipse is up and time remaining is >1 Starfire cast but <2 Starfire casts)
cast Starfire and cancel Eclipse when it completes
elseif (Moonfire is down)
cast Moonfire
elseif (Insect Swarm is down)
cast Insect Swarm
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is up and not about to be canceled by WiseEclipse)
cast Starfire
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is up but about to be canceled by WiseEclipse)
cast Wrath
elseif (Solar Eclipse is up, Bloodlust is up, Lunar Eclipse is off ICD, and Bloodlust time remaining is greater than 15s)
cast Wrath and cancel Eclipse when it completes
elseif (Solar Eclipse is up)
cast Wrath
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is on ICD for more than one Wrath cast time + one Wrath travel time)
cast Starfire
else
cast Wrath

Just tossing this up here to see if it looks right to people.

Also, someone should use this to make a Moonkin version of FaceMauler (called BirdBrain?)


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