So are the engineering hyperspeed acclerators now the best glove enchant for moonkins?
Seems logical as haste is meh for wrath but being able to focus a truckload of it at a specific point in our rotation (during wrath proc'd eclipse starfire spam) seems ideal.
340 haste up 8.3% of the time = 28.3haste rating.
Alternative = 28spellpower.
Using my end naxx set in Wrathcalc I get 28spellpower as being about 3dps better than 28haste rating.
So using the glove enchant is a slight damage drop while other professions actually benefit you.
Short answer = Enginering is not a pve proffession.
340 haste up 8.3% of the time = 28.3haste rating.
Alternative = 28spellpower.
Using my end naxx set in Wrathcalc I get 28spellpower as being about 3dps better than 28haste rating.
So using the glove enchant is a slight damage drop while other professions actually benefit you.
Short answer = Enginering is not a pve proffession.
You're missing my point.
It averages to 28 haste. But that's not the whole picture.
The haste will only be cast during the starfire portion of rotation with eclipse up. So it should be much more potent then having a flat 28 haste.
Edit : Disregard this & check my updated post later in this post.
So :
JC = 39spellpower + additional benefit from not using blue gems, a conservative guess says 55spellpower gained.
Bs/Ench = 38sp till epic gems.
Engi = 57 haste rating (I doubt waiting to use wins over chaincast, you are only haste capped on wrath casts following crits / dots during heroism anyway).
Worth noting:
- A use is more powerful on fights where that last an odd number (Atleast very true for fights as short as most are now)
- Wrathcalc doesnt include heroism or trees, both cases that makes spellpower more sexy compared to haste.
But im tempted to drop my belowed enchanting if this stays untouched.
The main thing I see from looking at tons of WWS reports is that every boom who seems to hit 5k on patch will typically be in a guild that can down patch 3 mins or less. Thus making bloodlust/heroism matter that much more in terms of raw dps. Shorten the fight even more, to say the 2'17" time frame, and then you get the crazy 5.8k numbers, because, again, bl/hero has a higher up time for the fight. Basically, 25% of the fight you're doing crazy damage, and most likely, starfires will be in the serious under 2sec range with nature's grace.
Last edited by anyakaschala : 01/22/09 at 6:34 PM.
and most likely, starfires will be in the serious under 2sec range with nature's grace.
With the 470 base haste that I've got, Starfire is 1.9/1.6(NG) under Bloodlust with standard raid buffs (WoA/MK Aura). Chain critting Starfires while under Bloodlust is some 7-8k DPS on its own with that kind of cast speed.
Ashaera - remember that because the haste is useable, you can line it up with every other Eclipse proc, which should increase its value even further than just providing a "static" value.
There's also likely a breakpoint where the haste lets you get in one more shot during the eclipse period. This breakpoint would depend on current gear as well as reaction time.
Here's a question I feel like I should already know the answer to, is eclipse's effect determined when you start casting or when it fires? I would assume when you start.
There's also likely a breakpoint where the haste lets you get in one more shot during the eclipse period. This breakpoint would depend on current gear as well as reaction time.
Here's a question I feel like I should already know the answer to, is eclipse's effect determined when you start casting or when it fires? I would assume when you start.
Eclipse proccs on spellhit, so instant for Starfire, but delayed for Wrath.
Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
You cant count JC as 39SP because you will use the gems on blue sockets. The text below is copied from mage forums not entirely up to date though.
Jewelcrafting: +59 spell power and -24 stamina (or -16 spirit) with rare gems. +49 spell power and -30 stamina (-20 spirit) when/if epic gems appear.
You can use Prismatic gems to unlock your meta gem requirement, allowing you to skip the two blue/purple coloured gems.
* Blacksmithing: +38 spell power with rare gems socketed, +46 spell power once/if epic gems get implemented.
Epic gems are in the database, but with placehlder icons. They may or may not get implemented at all.
* These two professions also have the advantage that you can chose which stat you want to improve by chosing gems.
If we ever reach the point where crit or haste beats spell power, we can switch to these gems.
* Inscription +37 spell power, +43 spell power in the first 2 months when not Exalted with Sons of Hodir (daily grind)
To some extend I disagree, having optimal setup matters alot for your dps - But kill time seems to hurt slightly less, atleast till it goes down to around 2minutes. Theres not much difference between the gain from higher heroism uptime in a 2.30parse, till the benefit on 2 rounds of trees in a 3.30 one.
Did 17man Patchwerk last night, ill post you a slow kill 5k+ parse once it gets uploaded.
Ashaera, did you already upload your slow kill 5k+ parse or did I simply miss it? I would really like to have a look at it.
There's also likely a breakpoint where the haste lets you get in one more shot during the eclipse period. This breakpoint would depend on current gear as well as reaction time.
Here's a question I feel like I should already know the answer to, is eclipse's effect determined when you start casting or when it fires? I would assume when you start.
I haven't done any testing on this but I would assume that the effect applies on spell hit as my starfires usually hit instead of crit if the effect wears off during the casting time. This shouldn't be too hard to test on dummies using a wrath eclipse though, and I would go test it now if I hadn't already specced resto for the weekend.
Spell damage effects are calculated at two points:
- Personal effects (e.g. trinket procs or eclipse) are calculated at the point of releasing the cast; and
- Debuff effects (e.g. Earth and Moon) are calculated at the point of impact.
Both of these are obvious if you observe Wrath damage due to the travel time, but for Starfire they are the same point. Chain cast at a target dummy from maximum range without E&M active at the start and you'll find the first two or three wraths will hit for significantly less. Continue to chain cast, once a trinket procs observe the damage difference between the hit from the last cast released during the trinket proc, and the previous one that hit while the trinket was still active on you; the damage should be the same.
Spell crit effects (including debuffs) are calculated at the point of release, as shown through NG procs on Wrath casts.
I'm trying to figure out how to maximize my DPS. I just turned 80 last week, so my gear isn't where I want it to be at the moment. I have a lot more spell haste which is nice, but I prefer spell crit. In 25naxx, I'm usually between 6-12 on the charts, averaging about 2.4k DPS.
I don't have a cycle, but I have rules. I start off with IS, MF, than spam wrath till Eclipse procs, refreshing IS and MF when necessary. I try to keep IS and MF up at all times. When Eclipse procs, I spam SF for full duration, than refresh IS and MF, and spam SF for remainder of the eclipse CD, than rinse and repeat(My apologies if this was hard to understand).
Ashaera, did you already upload your slow kill 5k+ parse or did I simply miss it? I would really like to have a look at it.
I did not, the wws guy fucked tracking up. Stats was around 5.1k dps with expected crit % & while applying ff, fight duration atleast over 4miutes but exact duration I really cant remember anymore.
My only point is that 5k is not as time reliant as some people seem to think, but we dont exacly run 17man naxx that often im afraid.
Figured out why engineering looked so good in my above example - I was forgetting to remove the 28spellpower from the regular enchant, a proper estimation of profession values comes here.
This is using wrathcalc & stats 99% close to what my dream set before Ulduar looks like. Doesnt include heroism & trees which will favour SP further, but doesnt take the benefits of timing a "use" into account either.
I'm trying to figure out how to maximize my DPS. I just turned 80 last week, so my gear isn't where I want it to be at the moment. I have a lot more spell haste which is nice, but I prefer spell crit. In 25naxx, I'm usually between 6-12 on the charts, averaging about 2.4k DPS.
I don't have a cycle, but I have rules. I start off with IS, MF, than spam wrath till Eclipse procs, refreshing IS and MF when necessary. I try to keep IS and MF up at all times. When Eclipse procs, I spam SF for full duration, than refresh IS and MF, and spam SF for remainder of the eclipse CD, than rinse and repeat(My apologies if this was hard to understand).
Your problem is that even tho you have all that epic gear, you are still not hit capped nor is your crit high enough. You need to get spell hit to capped and your Crit to around 50% with raid buffs. Getting some Valorous pieces such as Helm and Shoulders would help you with the hit.
At first I would say yes, get more crit but than I do an armory-inspect on Ashaera seeing pretty low crit but very high haste, and outperforming me big time.
Also a higher amount of SP but trinkets can give a wrong idea, Spider vs dying curse for example gives almost 100 power more on the char overview.
Also pro's make up, I get my buff from alchemy flasks not viewable on my armory spellpower.
Couldn't find a real gear topic so ask here as here it is about raiding in general.
I see many of you with the cloth legs and waists, my guild gives prio on those items to all cloth casters over me, putting me so far back at the prioline i'll never get them, specially with our droprates(10+raids, 0 idols)
Is my guilds loot system retarded or am I selfish wanting an equal chance on those items as cloth casters??
Couldn't find a real gear topic so ask here as here it is about raiding in general.
I see many of you with the cloth legs and waists, my guild gives prio on those items to all cloth casters over me, putting me so far back at the prioline i'll never get them, specially with our droprates(10+raids, 0 idols)
Is my guilds loot system retarded or am I selfish wanting an equal chance on those items as cloth casters??
Neither. It's really up to your guild how to handle it, unfortunately. Yes, cloth is better (in some cases - BIS gear seems to be 4T7 + Maly10 Leather boots, + 3 cloth pieces), but it's not so much better that it's mandatory (about 50 DPS difference from wearing all leather). Since clothies don't have the option of wearing leather to make up the difference, most guilds will prioritize cloth to them, especially if it's a Loot Council system. You may be able to take cloth in a DKP system, but I'd suggest making sure it's only the BIS pieces (Maly25 pants, Sarth25 wrists, Thaddius25 belt), and don't be afraid to take the leather instead if it drops.
I'm not a full-time Moonkin. So most of the real good gear is closed to me. (such as this [Extract of Necromantic Power]which dropped last night but was given to a full-time dps) I have been testing and improving myself thanks to all commenters here. Anyway I made a haste heavy gear (which comes with resto gear mostly) and I have done 4600 dps in a 2'50" Patchwerk kill Wow Web Stats . Here is my build Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft :
My comments for the would be Moonkins:
1- Take treants. As you will see in my log had they been there they can easily do 50K dmg during heroism. If you can bribe a dps warrior to refresh Battle Shout after they are summoned they can do better. (Here is link Wow Web Stats to previous patch where I had Treants. Click on my name there Ciang to see the details)
2- Do not take Genesis. %5 to IS and MF is moot. (See my log and calculate the EXTRA damage those 5 points gave me.)
3- ImpFF (If no SP) IS and MF and Wrath until eclipse and Starfire spam works very very fine with almost any gear - condition being that you are hit capped.
4- If you have to move around to keep your dps going use wrath. Refresh MF and IS as necessary.
5- I have no mana issues. Raid buffed crit level (20ish) is just enough in almost all fights. I run around 700ish haste gear and 197 hit. I use a hit food +40 and almost always there is a dranei around to stick to for the final %1 hit. So refresh those MF and IS whenever you can. Do not take any mana talents. IF you have mana issues, use innervate glyph with a spirit weapon and full your mana. This is better than spending a few talents to get mana regen.
6- Get Incription JW or Enchant as they give more bonus to dps than any other profession. I have alchemy and herbing as I'm normally resto
7- I can easily say that with a few pieces of gear 5k dps is not a dream. (In a 3 min patchwerk kill)
8- As I'm resto I used all my badges and tokens for resto gear. 4xt7 (Valorous) looks worth the bonus. +%5 crit on wrath and Starfire is really good. Do not take heroes set. Its really worthless. Get into a few pug Nax 25 and you get better gear. But still even without any set gear 4600 dps is possible.
9- IS MF and Starfire glyphs are the best for raiding in my opinion.
10- Do not use ImpFF if there is a Shadow Priest. It saves a GCD.
11- This will be my talent with a few extra left to give around according to your play style. I find Moonkin Frenzy also helps in heroics and farming so I give to it usually. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft If you have mana issues swap 2 points in genesis with moonglow.
These are my accumulated comments after raiding as Moonkin for a few weeks. I hope they help. If you check my armory chances are that you will find me in resto gear.
Oh thanks Adoriele for the Add-On. It makes raiding easier. At the end of the day if you can pull 5k with full dps gear and professions you are good. From there on its luck, skill and raid setup and to squeeze out every few extra dps. My respect to those who are able and did it on this forum. Most locks and mages can't do that. They are meant to push over 5K as full dpsers not us as hybrids.
Silkworm, everything in your post has been stated before. Check the Moonkin Guide for Dummies, basically everything is there. As this thread is entitled "Moonkin Raiding" giving advice such as taking Owlkin Frenzy for heroics and farming is slightly off.
I also want to point out that:
Do not take heroes set. Its really worthless. Get into a few pug Nax 25 and you get better gear.
This advice is misplaced. If you take this mentality, you might as well be in greens until the point at which you can get best in slot upgrades.
01/22/09, 8:59 AM
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