Moonkin Raiding - Page 172

djnoj · 12/07/09, 11:19 PM

Anyone know if ForteXorcist works on PTR?

Fonzey · 12/08/09, 8:42 AM

It is in the patchnotes:

Originally Posted by MMO-Champion Front Page

Eclipse: This effect will not activate again within 15 seconds of either type of Eclipse effect firing, in addition to the existing 30-second cooldown for each type of Eclipse. In addition, Eclipse now grants a 40% critical strike chance to Starfire and 40% increased damage to Wrath, up from 30%.

Librarybook · 12/08/09, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by feior

You have to understand how WiseEclipse works. WiseEclipse exploits the fact that there is server lag, and that the damage modifiers are calculated client side (like crit).

Sorry I'm not too well versed in the blizzard lua code.

You don't have to understand blizzard's lua code to recognize that they put an internal timer on eclipse server side that trumps the proc to eliminate wiseeclipse.. which would also making golfing impossible as well. Its you that didn't understand, but thanks for several smart ass replies to people.

feior · 12/08/09, 4:16 PM

Originally Posted by Librarybook

You don't have to understand blizzard's lua code to recognize that they put an internal timer on eclipse server side that trumps the proc to eliminate wiseeclipse.. which would also making golfing impossible as well. Its you that didn't understand, but thanks for several smart ass replies to people.

"Sorry I'm not too well versed in the blizzard lua code."

I apologize if I made myself out to seem like an ass, but that was not my intention. This was aimed copialinex because I didn't understand what that piece of code meant. He also responded with a meaningful answer (if you had not read that yet). However, I'm still not sure how to decipher his recent answer with the code. I'll have to look it up.

Anyways, I thought the effects of a wrath/starfire cast were based on the local eclipse buff - hence my assumption of using the local buff. As well, the example I posted up took advantage of the fact that the spell casts were using the locally held buff. I was pretty sure WE took advantage of this and that there was lag.

You seem to suggest that it's pretty obvious that the wrath/starfire casts are based on the server eclipse, and I apologize for not recognizing it. In any case, could you please place a link so I can assure myself of the same detail?

"You have to understand how WiseEclipse works. WiseEclipse exploits the fact that there is server lag, and that the damage modifiers are calculated client side (like crit)."

If someone claims you don't understand something, it doesn't imply someone is being an ass to you. If you felt someone is just making smart ass responses then please report to a moderator - there is a rule about not back-seat moderating.

copialinex · 12/08/09, 4:42 PM

The code I posted above has nothing to do with WoW's internal code. As you can see through my posts, I like to provide the tools I use to find some infomation.
Refering to the code, It only prints by screen the time in seconds between the end of Eclipse and the end of your cast (this time is server's, not client's). By firing this code when you begin casting a Spell, you can determine the accuracy of your timing, and if you crit, you can determine the lenght of the No-Eclipse-15s (As Arawethion said earlier, if it was exactly 15s, you could time your casts to have a WE effect) by watching the Solar Eclipse procs, althought several tests are required.

feior · 12/08/09, 5:12 PM

Thanks copialinex for explaining to us and verifying that the eclipse timer is > 15 seconds. The time is suggested to be 15.1 seconds. Perhaps a good test would be to force yourself to have some massive lag (say half a second) by running some monster bittorrent in the background and see if you can still pull off a WE styled (or "golfing" i guess) starfire.

Lymited · 12/08/09, 11:32 PM

I have looked everywhere, and can't find if anyone has addressed it yet, so I apologize if I'm repeating someone but I was going through Arawethion's awesome Moonkin guide in his signature, and I was just wondering if it has been updated to address the crit buff to starfire. Since we have 10% more to reach the lunar cap, I was wondering if it's crossed anyone else's mind about our soft cap being lowered by 459 (45.9 to 1%, so 10%).

• Hamlet · 12/09/09, 1:49 AM

Originally Posted by Lymited

I have looked everywhere, and can't find if anyone has addressed it yet, so I apologize if I'm repeating someone but I was going through Arawethion's awesome Moonkin guide in his signature, and I was just wondering if it has been updated to address the crit buff to starfire. Since we have 10% more to reach the lunar cap, I was wondering if it's crossed anyone else's mind about our soft cap being lowered by 459 (45.9 to 1%, so 10%).

The 2T8 was nerfed from 15% to 7% crit during Lunar. The figures in the guide are accurate.

Lymited · 12/09/09, 2:42 AM

Ok thanks, was just curious because the talent template from mmo listed in the thread still has the old eclipse, so I wasn't sure if the entire thread was updated yet since the new eclipse was a kinda last minute change. Thanks for being on your game with the thread, very thorough

Phasmy · 12/09/09, 8:16 AM

Another side effect to the fix to Eclipse is that it is no longer reported in the combat log and no longer shows up in parses online such as WMO or WOL.

Curtdiggler · 12/09/09, 1:41 PM

Found my answer

Librarybook · 12/09/09, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by feior

Perhaps a good test would be to force yourself to have some massive lag (say half a second) by running some monster bittorrent in the background and see if you can still pull off a WE styled (or "golfing" i guess) starfire.

Ok. Let us know how much of a dps gain you can get by causing massive amounts of lag. At the very least the results of your testing could be of benefit of our Australian moonkins. I'm especially curious how solar eclipse will play out.

smallrabbit · 12/09/09, 2:43 PM

sry wrong thread ^^

you can delete it

Passthesugar · 12/09/09, 4:12 PM

Not having a fun time so far in my first 3.3 raid. The SAA fix rendered most encounters unplayably slow and stuttery, so I went for Classtimers instead. Now I'd gotten pretty proficient at chaining Eclipses before I'd even heard of WiseEclipse, so I figured it wouldn't hit my DPS much to have to drop it. However, I haven't been able to chain a single one in our first hour or so of raiding.

It might be due to the Classtimer mod reporting a different 'duration remaining' compared with SAA so my timing is thrown off, but I've landed Starfires pretty much everywhere in the interval [-0.5s, 0.5s] around the point Eclipse ends, and I'm not getting anywhere near the results I used to, so it seems as though the 'fix' to WiseEclipse has completely neutered Eclipse chaining in the process.

My suspicion is that they have been too heavy handed in defining the line between the eclipses, thus creating an unreasonably large interval in which you cannot possibly have Eclipse running. This effectively imposes a certain minimum amount of Eclipse downtime on you every fight, regardless of RNG or skill. And in doing so it neuters the skill element in Moonkin play as there is no longer any timing involved, just nuke spamming.

But theory aside, the bottom line is I'm getting <6k DPS where I used to get >7k, and I'm not happy

edit: having read the previous posts in more detail, I guess the TL;DR version of the above wall of QQ is that I am in agreement with Copialinex's findings. I guess I should try getting stronger gear (replacing 2pT8) before complaining about the DPS, but the loss of the skill element in timing Eclipses still irks me.

• Hamlet · 12/09/09, 4:21 PM

Originally Posted by Passthesugar

Not having a fun time so far in my first 3.3 raid. The SAA fix rendered most encounters unplayably slow and stuttery, so I went for Classtimers instead. Now I'd gotten pretty proficient at chaining Eclipses before I'd even heard of WiseEclipse, so I figured it wouldn't hit my DPS much to have to drop it. However, I haven't been able to chain a single one in our first hour or so of raiding.

It might be due to the Classtimer mod reporting a different 'duration remaining' compared with SAA so my timing is thrown off, but I've landed Starfires pretty much everywhere in the interval [-0.5s, 0.5s] around the point Eclipse ends, and I'm not getting anywhere near the results I used to, so it seems as though the 'fix' to WiseEclipse has completely neutered Eclipse chaining in the process.

My suspicion is that they have been too heavy handed in defining the line between the eclipses, thus creating an unreasonably large interval in which you cannot possibly have Eclipse running. This effectively imposes a certain minimum amount of Eclipse downtime on you every fight, regardless of RNG or skill. And in doing so it neuters the skill element in Moonkin play as there is no longer any timing involved, just nuke spamming.

But theory aside, the bottom line is I'm getting <6k DPS where I used to get >7k, and I'm not happy

Based on what copialinex posted, and even based on what I've seen playing for a little while, any added delay after Eclipse ends before it allows another one to proc is a few tenths of a second at most (if it exists at all).

It's hard to comment on S&A performance--servers were bad yesterday and I was recording video too. People are giving varied feedback. But it's the only obvious way to make the mod work now, so having it available as an option is better than nothing.

There's no reason your DPS should have gone substantially down.