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12/21/09, 11:49 AM
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#2671
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Glass Joe
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t10 2pc-bonus is about omen of clarity
2 pieces: When you gain Clearcasting from your Omen of Clarity talent, you deal 15% additional Nature and Arcane damage for 6 sec.
Last edited by smallrabbit : 12/21/09 at 12:10 PM.
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12/22/09, 10:52 AM
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#2672
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Banned
Tauren Druid
Kael'thas (EU)
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Originally Posted by smallrabbit
t10 2pc-bonus is about omen of clarity
2 pieces: When you gain Clearcasting from your Omen of Clarity talent, you deal 15% additional Nature and Arcane damage for 6 sec.
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About this actually... As I understand it, there is a reasonable amount of situations in which pressing the Gift of the Wild button would net a dps increase because of this bonus. I personally am slightly underwhelmed by having to use such a technique to max my potential dps, not to mention the fact that it is a much less elegant design that what Blizzard has made us used to.
My questions are multiple around this, but I don't want to be out of the TC field, so here are the ones I will ask: has someone run the maths on this to figure out if:
- it is worth using losing a gcd for within our standing still cycle? If so, when? (I assume a possible good time is during the travel time of a Wrath that triggered Nature's Grace, but I may well be wrong)
- how much is potentially gained by using it in a moving fight like Mimiron HM (I know this must be really hard to model, I'm just asking for some data to back up a decision to bother or not bother).
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12/22/09, 12:17 PM
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#2673
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Burning Blade
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The math is pretty simple.
For a standing rotation, if you cast GotW, you instantly lose a GCD-worth of time of the 6-second buff. Assuming NG, we'll call it 1 second, or a sixth, of the duration. However, you improve your damage by 15% for the remaining 5. Without getting into how many actual casts you can get off and assuming a constant "damage per second", you end up with:
(1-1/6)*1.15 = 0.9583~ of your original damage
In other words, not worth it.
For movement, if you time it such that you have just about 1 GCD worth of movement time left when you cast GotW, then we can assume no loss of standard rotation. We'll say you can get off 2 SF's or 4 Wraths in the remainder of the buff. Not bad, and certainly worth doing at any time, but there's absolutely no way to quantify how much DPS gain you'll have because there's no way to quantify how many times you'll have to move on any particular attempt of any particular fight.
An interesting question that just came to mind though, is what are those ~5 seconds best spent casting? I'm now thinking that refreshing your dots would be ideal, as long as there isn't too much time remaining on them already, since dots have the best damage per cast time. You could even cast GotW in the middle of a long move and do nothing but pop your insta-cast spells (MF/IS/SFall) while still on the move.
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12/22/09, 12:23 PM
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#2674
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by qae
If you have 4pT9 245 - upgrade to 2pT9 245 + 2pT10 251 (keeping T9 head and chest)
- upgrade to 4pT10 251
That should cover the "what tier updates?" issues.
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I assume you are "keeping T9 head and chest" because those are non-spirit items. I can't see that the gain in stats from those 2 pieces offset the gain from 4xT9(245) though. I got my first token last night, and I will probably buy the T10 shoulders (264). I don't believe I'll be using them since I can't get 2 piece for a while due to limit on total number of available badges. When I looked into RAWR, the 2PT9 + 2P (251) T10 was not a DPS boost so I can't really see justifying that. I am currently planning on buying the 264 head piece next (I should be able to get another token before I have another 80 badges), and hoping that the gloves or legs might drop in VOA.
Last edited by Bockbear : 12/22/09 at 12:29 PM.
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12/22/09, 5:23 PM
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#2675
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Von Kaiser
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Ok, i'm sitting here trying to create just a small, convenient spreadsheet for myself to investigate how i am doing towards the lunar crit cap among other things.
But i stumbled across calculating the spell damage in moonkin form compared to out of form, which i can't seem to get correct.
So i was wondering if anyone got the correct formula?
At the moment i am using (the values are without any buffs or moonkin form)
Spell power + Intellect*0.12 + Spirit*0.3
But this comes off the amount shown in game by 130 or so, and i don't see where i am thinking about this wrong...
Help would be appreciated, i've been searching around the net for the formula and looking through the spreadsheet uploaded here but couldn't find what i was looking for sadly.
Last edited by magojo : 12/22/09 at 5:41 PM.
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12/22/09, 6:36 PM
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#2676
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Kirin Tor (EU)
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Originally Posted by Bockbear
I assume you are "keeping T9 head and chest" because those are non-spirit items. I can't see that the gain in stats from those 2 pieces offset the gain from 4xT9(245) though. I got my first token last night, and I will probably buy the T10 shoulders (264). I don't believe I'll be using them since I can't get 2 piece for a while due to limit on total number of available badges. When I looked into RAWR, the 2PT9 + 2P (251) T10 was not a DPS boost so I can't really see justifying that. I am currently planning on buying the 264 head piece next (I should be able to get another token before I have another 80 badges), and hoping that the gloves or legs might drop in VOA.
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It may depends on your stats, but the 4pT9 bonus offers roughly the same dps boost as the 2pT10 bonus, so trading one for another will have almost no effect on your dps. On the other hand, you trade two 245 pieces (with spirit) for two 251 pieces (perfectly itemized), so here is your upgrade.
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12/22/09, 7:03 PM
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#2677
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by magojo
Spell power + Intellect*0.12 + Spirit*0.3
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4% from master shapeshifter will affect your moonkin form sp; if you're looking for a complete formula to go from base sp to talented sp you need 3% from earth and moon as well.
Last edited by wyattboyuz : 12/22/09 at 7:11 PM.
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12/22/09, 7:22 PM
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#2678
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by wyattboyuz
4% from master shapeshifter will affect your moonkin form sp; if you're looking for a complete formula to go from base sp to talented sp you need 3% from earth and moon as well.
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True, i missed those two but adding up 4% from MS and 3% from EaM will put it even more above the shown values... so i must be doing something wrong..
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12/22/09, 7:36 PM
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#2679
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King Hippo
Tauren Druid
Destromath (EU)
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4% MSS and 3% E&M are NOT +x% spell power, they are a direct modifier of damage dealt by spells.
You probably forgot the 10% int bonus from furor
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Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
SimulationCraft Druid Guy
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12/22/09, 7:38 PM
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#2680
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Von Kaiser
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Still, anything i forgot to add to the formula that makes the outcome larger will be even more wrong 
It's the damage spell power i'm after to calculate, not that it matter that much i just don't like getting stuck on something.
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12/22/09, 8:31 PM
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#2681
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Glass Joe
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sp from gear + int * .12 = paperdoll sp
paperdoll sp + int * .1 * .12 + spirit * .3 = moonkin sp
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12/22/09, 8:39 PM
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#2682
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Von Kaiser
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Ah, okay, i had missed the 12% int->SP was included in the paperdoll SP, thanks wyatt!
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12/23/09, 6:26 AM
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#2683
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Dun Modr (EU)
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Bis List 3.3 Moonkin
Hi, what do you think to do a Bis list for 3.3?
Here is my Bis List
BIS list :
Head: T10.277
Shoulder: T10.277
Chest: T10.277
Gloves: T10.277
Legs: T10.277// Break tier With tailoring Cloth.
Belt: One of two. The Emblem Petrified Ivy (264) and Bloodied Smock (277) are VERY comparable. I lean towards Petrified Ivy, but either or will work.
Bracer: Eternal Dreaming (277)
Boot: One of two again. The Frozen Seed (264) and Unnatural Growth (277) are quite close, in this case I lean towards Unnatural Growth.
Neck: Blood Queen's Crimson Choker (277) (If alliance w/ Draenai hit buff) OR Amulet of the Silent Eulogy (277) (If you need the extra hit)
Back: Frostbinders's Shredded Cape (277)
Ring: Ashen Band of Endless Destruction (277)
Ring: Ring of Rapid Ascent (277)
Idol: Idol of the Lunar Eclipse (264 emblem)
Trinkets are debatable at the moment. The 2 Reigns, Dislodged Foreign Object, and Phylactery of the Nameless Lich are all strong contenders, it'll have to be mathed out once the details of the 277 versions of the new trinkets are known. Other trinkets such as Muradin's Spyglass are good.
Weapons are also questionable. The current choices are between the staff Nibelung (No crit/haste, but an interesting proc) or the Frozen Bonespike + Shadow Silk Spindle combo. The Bonespike has spirit, making it unideal, but the Heroic Nibelung proc isn't fully mathed out for us yet. A caveat here is that there's a VERY high chance that Arthas will drop a weapon that will also be a strong contender.
What do you think?
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12/23/09, 11:24 AM
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#2684
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by amped
I prefer Suffering's End over Nibelung because it has spirit + crit, the procrate on nibelung is only 1%, I rarely ever have a val'kyr up on my mage (who has it).
EDIT: Meant Sufferance the staff, not the mace ^_^
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I don't think there's any question. If you already have the 258 staff, Nibelung is a downgrade. I find the proc rate to be decent, but the Valkyr tend to be dumb and die quickly if it's at all possible. The only fight they tend to survive 100% of the time is Deathbringer Saurfang.
You are trading: -54 Stamina, -46 INT and -86 spirit (equal to 28 spell power by itself raid buffed) , -137 Crit for an extra 40 spell power and the Proc. I don't think that's anywhere near a good deal.
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12/23/09, 12:16 PM
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#2685
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Burning Blade
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Originally Posted by Darkgaia
Here is my Bis List...
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I'm pretty sure it will be entirely possible to come up with a BiS list that has no pieces with spirit gear on it, which I believe will still be optimal after we inevitably pass both the haste and crit soft caps. There are so many well-itemized drops throughout ICC (and with badges) that it seems like we might literally have zero spirit from gear. This makes me wonder about mana regen.
I love WrathCalcs, but I'm not totally confident how reliable it is on mana consumption/longevity since it has never really been an issue in the past (and thus I have never really even tested the accuracy of WC's regen stats), but now, I'm starting to put some thought into it. In non-AoE fights, I'm never even close to OOM, and I can't imagine that changing as we progress into ICC. On older fights where mana was an issue (like yogg during its learning stages, and still during anub), I would toss a point into intensity. But now, with no spirit from gear, will it be worth switching to <gasp> Dreamstate instead?
I really don't mean to dredge up the old "which is better" debate that raged for the first month of WotLK, but I think the question might need some re-examining with the fact that our spirit will be way, way down.
Or, am I just over-thinking this? With the huge crit percentage we'll have, will OOC, moonkin aura, and replenishment be enough to keep us going on longer fights?
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