R(aw )DPS in the Stats page means DPS without concern for mana, i.e. the total damage done per rotation over the time spent. DPS takes into account whether you go OOM before the end of a fight, much the way Efejel's sheet used to calculate it.

RDPS in the item comparison panel (and hence the optimizer) means the same thing for your highest DPS rotation unless you have a specific rotation selected in the options page. If you do, it's that rotation's DPS so that you can optimize around it. Not sure if this is with or without regard to mana, my gut says without.

Multiple times, but here it is again. With no Eclipse and no Starfire glyph, the DPS cycle selected is exactly what it says on the Rawr page. When you have the Starfire glyph selected, any cycles that use Wrath as their main nuke and have Moonfire in them will have 3 Starfire casts added to them to make use of the Starfire glyph. So, for example, IS/MF/W is, in actuality, MF/SFx3/IS/Wxn. With Eclipse, there are two possibilities, depending on whether you have Smart Switching selected. If it is NOT selected, Rawr models switching to the opposite spell only when Eclipse procs; that is to say, if your rotation is MF/SF, it will model always casting Starfire until Eclipse procs, then casting Wrath under Eclipse, then returning to Starfire when the proc is over. With Smart Switching enabled, it attempts to model forcing a proc. Using the earlier MF/SF example, it will cast Starfire until Eclipse's internal CD is up, then it will switch to Wrath until Eclipse procs, then return to Starfire for the duration of the proc and until the CD is up again. As an aside, I'm kicking around the idea of ditching the old calculation model entirely sometime in the near future.

So if, even with Smart Switching ticked, Rawr lists IS/MF/W above IS/MF/SF, it's telling me I should be using SF to proc Wrath?

For rotations use Wrathcalc & base your own rotation upon its "Damage per Execute Time" table.

When you try out all aspects of the Boomkin as in 25man, 10man, 5man, grinding, duels, arena, pug/premade bg's; the need for mana really changes heavily. Class setup & size of the raid are the main factors.

I end up doing the same as Lordbeef, in 25man I don't use any regen talents, and even put the common 1 point from moonglow in genesis. The only fight where I can be oom in 25man is Sartharion 3D just before the end, dark runes solve that.

When we go down to 5man, 10man, premades; I take intensity 3/3, loads of spirit on my gear. Moonglow 3/3. Sometimes I also take the 1st point from dreamstate. But as healers suffer the same problem as I do, I end up innervating the healers a lot in 10mans. Which gets me in to trouble occasionally.

For duels, pugging bg's, arena; I take dreamstate 3/3, moonglow 3/3, intensity 1to3/3. Pvp gear has a lot less intellect, no spirit at all, and if you don't want to be drinking everytime you killed somebody you need all the mana you can get. I gemmed up for some more intellect with int+stam gems. Not every fight is short in pvp.

Perhaps we need to think more global for nerfing the 25man mana pools. Maybe lowering mana refunding effects by a small number. For example lowering the moonkin proc by 0,5%, and doing something simular for replenishments etc. Or make it so that players can't benefit from replenish/moonkin proc more then ever 3 seconds. There are many options, I wonder what it will be in the end. Because this can't go on if we increase stats even more in Ulduar.

With the holidays now past, I got sober and got in to a raid again.
Spec used Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Patchwork: Wow Web Stats
First raid without my 2xT6 bonus, was a bit of a cold shock, its incredible how much more comfortable & reliable the rotations/eclipse are with the extra 3 seconds from the bonus. Used my same rotation as i posted some time ago (wrath-starfire-starfire).
Eclipse didn't proc from wrath within my first moonfire dot (so no +9sec for my first moonfire), so with more luck I can squeeze out a bit more here next time. As far as I remember the rest of my rotations went fluently besides queueing starfire to early a few times. Ah yes, wasn't expecting us to hit the -3min achievement, so used treants on the pull and not while heroism. I hope to get somewhat higher before Ulduar is released.
For talent spec I don't take brambles, when i tried brambles treants never were more then 6% of my dps(roughly 4-5% without brambles). In the end its only +15% damage to your treants(3talent points...), for 0-29sec every 3minutes. Improved thorns is nice for the tanks sure, but not worth it for me in wotlk. Im with Dukes, can't live without typhoon, basicly not without gale winds either. For me it just feels to wrong not to have them.

@Druidark -> 3/3 Owlkin Frenzy but no Imp. FF? General aggrement is that a feral using FF does provide you with 3% crit.
I do find it to be very rare that eclipse doesnt proc before Moonfire runs out so wouldnt worry too much about that.

You could use IS more, when comparing to my last Patchwerk also 2.57 kill I have 55 IS ticks vs your 35 - Math does support applying IS alot, at the very least any time Eclipse aint active.

As you state, optimal usage of our lovely trees helps quite alot (Teaching your prot warrior to do a battle shout when heroism comes is golden).

Dont be too dissapointed if your dps doesnt skyrocket next week, your crit % on Starfire seems quite abit above expected values.

Ooh, somewhere before the holidays (when I was last reading in here) it was not confirmed it actually added to my crit, very nice. If I remember correctly I have near 34% crit with starfire from gear & talents with non-combat buffs from raid. So iFF will be another 3% then <3. I use IS before wrath to proc eclipse allways, but I only refreshed moonfire when eclipse didn't proc within first moonfire dot, I never refresh IS. I will try out refreshing IS if eclipse hasn't procced yet.
Yeah I won't climb up much from now, just some gear & my weapon to upgrade a few iLevels. I will need to give more cookies to our dps warrior for a BS after heroism. Maybe our elemental shaman will tag along next time aswell.

ps: hug zalgradis for me, one of the few persons worth remembering from those hundreds of pug bg's.

Can you describe exactly what your cycle is (i.e. when do you refresh DoTs)?

I actually messed up a few times and landed a starfire that happened 2 crit right as my eclipse was coming off cooldown, happened 2x I believe, but I just used the wrath eclipses, i keep moonfire up the whole fight, during everything no matter whats proc'd or heroism, only refresh IS inbetween eclipse procs and never during hero, I might try during hero next week, but I doubt it's worth it

is-mf-wrath till eclipse and starfire spamming on eclipse cooldown

I have few questions concerning moonkin dps rotation I use which is IS,MF,W untill eclipse, SF during eclipse and during internal CD of eclipse while refreshing dots.

1. When Im trying to proc eclipse with my IS and MF rolling and theres something like 3 secs left in MF, should I switch to SF to refresh MF even if eclipse hasnt procced risking a wrong eclipse proc or should I just let MF wear out and refresh it then?

2. Also if the correct method is to refresh MF with SF and eclipse procs, should I immediately switch to W spam or cast 3 SF to refresh MF by 9secs no matter what?

3. So far I have refreshed MF and IS during eclipse if they fell off when theres atleast 10secs left in eclipse. Has anyone calculated the point where you still should refresh dots during eclipse?

4. Even if we dont like wrath eclipses those sometimes happen. Should we refresh dots during W eclipses and what is the point where you should still refresh them?

As a little offtopic I´d like to throw an interesting question. When wrath eclipse becomes better than starfire eclipse?
Obviously at Loatheb Wrath eclipse is better because atleast with my current gear and fungus buff my SF crit% is about 135% while W crit% is something like 105%. Loatheb is an extreme situation when W eclipse is strictly better than SF, but could W eclipse be better even with lower crit levels say 60-70%?

I'll answer these, then. First, it's a math issue for question 1. What do you lose in each case? If you don't swap to SF to extend Moonfire, you lose 3 ticks. If you do, you possibly (probably, since MF is up) have to deal with the difference between a Starfire eclipse and a Wrath one. In end T725 gear, 3 ticks of Moonfire is ~3.5k damage. The difference between SF and W Eclipse is ~15k damage. Let the Moonfire drop, and refresh it. This also answers the second question.

As to the interesting question at the end, Starfire scales better than Wrath in almost every case, Loatheb being the noticeable difference, because you're capped at 100% crit, but there's no cap on %damage done. Wrath Eclipse MAY be better at some point, but it's on the low end of gear, not the high end.