I usually just read on these forums and never write, but I have to share you something.

I have done something kinda rational, and an RL mate and another guildie (that's also plays moonkin's) have done the same after seeing that it actually did improve our dps. I can understand that this might sound very dumb and stupid, but try to take me serious cause I'm a serious owl.

I don't have Insect Swarm anymore. Not even a point in it. Instead I use Glyph of Starfall and some other talents. My spec is currently this:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The points in Brambles can be changed to 3/3 Moonglow and eventually the last point in Insect Swarm (to use while moving etc), but since mana is our least issue we deal with I go 3/3 Brambles.

So, how am I thinking? Well, this is how it works. I've set a priority to our dots during wotlk and the gear we have had. For example, during Ulduar and the 4 piece bonus of T8 I used IS before MF. Then, at ToC, where our 2P T9 and the 245 idol buffed our MF, I used MF over IS.
This probably doesn't make sence, but I felt that I lost to much Eclipse time when I had to refrest both of the dots. I started to more or less only use one dot in raids, and I actually felt that I did more dmg. Tried on dummies and such and I got proved right.

But I still kept the spec, it was nice to have IS when moving and so on. Then we came to Anub heroic and killing adds was high priority. I noticed that the adds had a spawntime of about 1 minute so if I used Glyph of Starfall I would have Starfall ready every time they spawned. Then I came up with this idea - why spec IS when I rarely use it?

Tested it out, both me and the RL freind and we noticed that we didn't loose any dps, rather gained some. Even on single target. That was chocking.

Anyhow, I kept the spec now in ICC and I still use it. One thing should be mentioned. I have [Fetish of Volatile Power] with a 2 min cd, so every second time I use Starfall I use this trinket. It give me 8 stacks in no time, wich make this trinket more value than before and the 1 min Starfall also get more value.

I got Nibelung two weeks ago, and have been reading here every day since that (ehm, probably read here every day before that too :P). I would love a comment on my idea, if it's totally wrong or if there can be something good in it.

Anyhow, I love the spec, and will most certain be using it when LK falls to the ground.

I'm always keeping an eye out for changes in value of spells (reason I brought this up in the first place), but while DoT's keep steadily fading in value, I've still never seen a reason to drop IS, IIS, or Glyph of IS entirely. If there were something else worthwhile to do with those 3 talent points or that Glyph slot, maybe it would be different, but there isn't. And with the talent and Glyph casting IS still provides a moderate (~150 DPS) bump over not casting it, both by WrathCalcs' complex model and by a simple eyeballing of the DPET of the spell.

Basically, the small DPS gain from a Glyphed, talented IS, while pretty weak, still outweighs anything else you'd get from using those 3 talent points on Glyph slot on anything else.

First of all, thanks for the answers.

Secondly, I don't have any logs laying around, this was probably two months ago I did these tests, if not more. Sorry about that, I agree that it's kinda stupid to claim something like "don't use Insect Swarm" and then don't show any math.

This week is slammed at work so can't promise that I can do some testing at this time. Hopefully I will make it.

But just a thought:

In one minute you have to refresh IS five times, that is five global cooldowns.

For three minutes you have to do it 15 times, thereby 15 gcd's.

One of those 15 gcd's is used for another Starfall, and the 14 that's left is used for Wrath's and Starfire's. 14 of those is about 150k-200k dmg or something, in addition you get another 20k from you additional Starfall. Yea, this math is just taken out of nowhere, but you get the point. Now consider that the Starfall would do alot more dmg if there would be more than one target (huge chance in ICC) and have in mind that Wrath and Starfire benefit from both haste, crit and spellpower when IS only benefit from spellpower.

This is how we came up with the idea. Those 14 wrath's and starfire's can be worth alot, especially if they are blown during Eclipse (then the dmg would be even higher). I have high eclipse uptime, it's not very often I stand still and wait for it to proc. So when the Eclipse overlaps perfectly then I feel that I don't have the time (or the will) to refresh the dot when I instead can crit a Wrath for 15k.

Hope you understand the point, even if the math is out of control. Now I really need to work again!


Edit: Searched for some logs here in the thread, and here is a moonkin with a log. This moonkin did 130k dmg with his Insect Swarm in a 2 min and 30 sec fight.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

If this is correct, "my idea" have a great chance of doing more dmg than that. Just an idea.

Edit 2: Think the company have lost a billion on me today, just sitting here writing about the most fantastic thing in the world (teh owl), but I must say one more thing:

Of course I have to take in mind that fights aren't always Patchwerk-like, at perfect circumstances. With alot of moving I use Typhoon instead of using IS (if MF is up, Starfall and Treants are on cd and so on) wich of course is a dps loss. But how often is that? Normally you can expect to move and thereby save an instant for that time. The dps loss don't have to be crucial if you just use the right spell at the right time.

I think Hamlet made a post saying he still had 2.93% proc rate on Starfire after the ppm alterations.