Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01/19/10, 3:34 PM   #2911
Rhelloz
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Mug'thol
I think the big question coming up is with current talents and ICC gear at what point does the normal rotation (ff, mf, is, wrath till eclipse refresh dots as necessary etc) no longer provide us max DPS as is losing the 2t9 bonus will drop Moonfire's DPET a fairly large amount.
In all test gear setups with 264 pieces I'm well in the 40-41% Crit range, without factoring our idol. The 3% crit from IIS will not be as necessary at that point as well as our Starfire will be at 100% Crit rating during lunar eclipse regardless.
Also a question for most, several have mentioned maintaining low haste however, for most, it has been because they want to make reigns proc more often, with the heroic spyglass and Sindragosa trinket being in the BIS range (along with heroic reigns) will a spyglass/DFO, phytery(whatever) combo make higher haste worth a lot more.

Last edited by Rhelloz : 01/19/10 at 3:54 PM.

Offline
Old 01/19/10, 7:57 PM   #2912
Zifrelm
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by Arawethion View Post
Trinket time. Only bothering with the 4 good ones. Take my current gear in WC, drop IDS, add in each trinket and check DPS.
I wanted to see how these would scale with the obscene amounts of crit and haste we'll have in heroic ICC gear, so I plugged in the raw, unbuffed numbers from a BIS-type set I made in Rawr (3642 SP, 1133 crit w/o idol, 809 haste, sans trinkets) and attempted to duplicate what Arawethion did. I used the same uptime approximations for DFO and Phylactery - 20/55 and 20/94, respectively.

Subtracting the "baseline" trinketless DPS of 9725.48, I got the following deltas when trying each trinket by itself:
Spyglass       431.67
Spyglass (H)   485.95
Reign          552.84
Reign (H)      620.61
DFO            550.49
DFO (H)        624.82
Phylactery     477.23
Phylactery (H) 537.65
Heroic DFO still reigns supreme, but as one might expect, having so much crit increases the value of Reign and decreases the value of Spyglass, compared to what Arawethion had calculated based on his current gear, which I assume is a mix of 264 and lower gear. I plan to do this calculation using a mid-ICC gear set (all 264), but it'll have to be later, as it's raid time.

Offline
Old 01/20/10, 2:18 AM   #2913
amped
Von Kaiser
 
amped's Avatar
 
Gnome Mage
 
Lightbringer
On Owlkin Frenzy, I tried a build tonight with 2 points in it instead of Gale Winds and set up a power auras to watch it on the new bosses. I found that it wasn't up much on the council, but it was definitely almost up 100% of the time on blood queen because of her ticking Aura. Food for thought if your guild is having DPS issues, I know we've wiped at sub-200k a few times.

Offline
Old 01/20/10, 10:21 AM   #2914
Latas
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Uther
Originally Posted by amped View Post
On Owlkin Frenzy, I tried a build tonight with 2 points in it instead of Gale Winds and set up a power auras to watch it on the new bosses. I found that it wasn't up much on the council, but it was definitely almost up 100% of the time on blood queen because of her ticking Aura. Food for thought if your guild is having DPS issues, I know we've wiped at sub-200k a few times.
Given that it is up that much from her aura, has anyone tested any variety of points on putricide?

Offline
Old 01/20/10, 10:51 AM   #2915
Rhelloz
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Mug'thol
I tested Owlkin Frenzy 2/3 on Putricide the first week it was released and only had 3 proc, over the course of 6 attempts most all of them in the 4-5 minute range. While he causes a lot of raid wide damage it perhaps doesn't procs off of the abomination aura which is the majority of it. Mutated abomination was responsible for 80% of the damage i took during it.

Offline
Old 01/20/10, 11:05 AM   #2916
janrael
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by Rhelloz View Post
I tested Owlkin Frenzy 2/3 on Putricide the first week it was released and only had 3 proc, over the course of 6 attempts most all of them in the 4-5 minute range. While he causes a lot of raid wide damage it perhaps doesn't procs off of the abomination aura which is the majority of it. Mutated abomination was responsible for 80% of the damage i took during it.
Has anybody tried it on Festergut or Saurfang yet? If it has a high uptime on all the dps-limited fights, I'd *love* to pick it back up and climb that meter a bit!

I'll try it out on Thursday if nobody knows.

Offline
Old 01/20/10, 11:34 AM   #2917
Grendelle
Glass Joe
 
Grendelle's Avatar
 
Troll Druid
 
Ysondre
As far as the debate concerning Owlkin frenzy v Gale winds is concerned, OKF wins hands down imo. Even if you only get 1 or 2 procs during a fight, its still more useful then topping the meters on trash.

@Janrael I have been spec'd into OkF for the majority of 3.3 (2/3) and haven't noticed many procs from Sourfang. I have however noticed a fair amount of procs in a lot of the plague and crimson halls.

Do I have statistics for you? no. I usually let EJ do the thinking, I just read and follow. What I can tell you though, is that you don't need to run numbers to deduce that a OkF is more valuable than Gale winds.

Question:
Does anyone know when the E&M buff is to be instated? It was my understanding that it was due for this Tuesday past. Haven't noticed the change in my talent tree.

The World of Warcraft Armory - Grendelle @ Executus - Profile

Offline
Old 01/20/10, 12:05 PM   #2918
Tuffhead
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blackhand
When I took my points out of Gale winds I ended up doing 2/3 brambles but considering moving those points to Ofk with all the raid damage that goes around.

Offline
Old 01/20/10, 12:12 PM   #2919
Shantaram
Banned
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kael'thas (EU)
Originally Posted by Grendelle View Post
As far as the debate concerning Owlkin frenzy v Gale winds is concerned, OKF wins hands down imo. Even if you only get 1 or 2 procs during a fight, its still more useful then topping the meters on trash.
I respectfully disagree. I'm no math expert, so I will talk exclusively about gameplay here. There is a lot more to GW than topping the meters on trash. Nobody cares about this but idiots, and nobody will, because in the event that trash gets back to being difficult, CC will be the answer, not AoE. Anyhow...

Bumping adds with Typhoon while doing more damage to them is very useful on Saurfang. On Deathwhisper, Typhoon is also a great button to push. On Marrowgar even, when your responsibility as dps is to maximize damage on the spine, a wrath + typhoon is typically achievable, anything longer would tend to be cancelled and wasted. Granted, on that last one, if your raid is awesome and your melee team does its job you ay ignore spines, but you get my point.

Doing hard modes from ToC? Anub is an important AoE fight, I would think a lot of people agree on that. Faction Champions sees a lot of Typhoon anyway.

For several reasons, I have yet to experience the Putricide wing, so I'll let others tell whether or not its useful.

My point is, you can easily make a gameplay case for Gale Winds, while the maths to back up Owlkin Frenzy show that it is still a very weak pve talent.

Offline
Old 01/20/10, 1:01 PM   #2920
Zifrelm
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Burning Blade
I use my second spec slot for an AOE-centric build (GW, Typhoon) for trash/hardmode Anub/Saurfang and leave those talents out of my single-target build.

What I spend my 2 extra points on is Nature's Focus, to avoid pushback on Wrath casts. I imagine that the same damaging effects that cause pushback also are what can proc OkF, so perhaps I should reconsider OkF. When I have time I'll try to do some maths.

Offline
Old 01/20/10, 1:20 PM   #2921
Royalite
Von Kaiser
 
Royalite's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by Zifrelm View Post
What I spend my 2 extra points on is Nature's Focus, to avoid pushback on Wrath casts. I imagine that the same damaging effects that cause pushback also are what can proc OkF, so perhaps I should reconsider OkF. When I have time I'll try to do some maths.
I normally run with a tree and/or ferals in my guild 10/25 mans run, so I take Nature's Focus over Imp GotW for a marginal dps increase but a greater benefit over the redundancy of what others are bringing to the run. You need two points in NF to have the point requirements for OC. So I am wondering if you run with trees and/or feral if putting 2 points in Imp GotW and NF is really that great since it is going beyond the needed points needed for OC?
Running with NF and with another druid, possibly those 2 points in Im pGotW took be used to squeeze more dps out of some talents in the balance tree... Just hypothesizing with your build.

United States Offline
Old 01/20/10, 1:31 PM   #2922
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
Hamlet's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
If you want to take NF (which seems reasonable), you give up two in either iGotW or Furor. Furor is worth a bit more DPS and marginally more regen, but iGotW is useful in a group without another Druid.

Once you've done that, how does iGotW/Furor fare against Balance talents for your filler points? Well, both add more DPS than Genesis. They both add more than Brambles in the sheet, which only accounts for Treant damage, not Thorns. And Owlkin Frenzy depends on the fight.

Overall, I'm still a fan of OF for true filler points (i.e. the ones that appear if you don't need Gale Winds).


United States Online
Old 01/20/10, 2:01 PM   #2923
Zifrelm
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Burning Blade
I actually keep full 2/2 iGotW and 5/5 Furor in addition to 2/3 NF - my 2 floating points are from dropping to 0/3 Intensity. OF does seem the better option, now that it's mentioned, especially since it provides full pushback protection for its duration . I'll try it tonight.

Offline
Old 01/20/10, 2:08 PM   #2924
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
Hamlet's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
OF seems to proc from Shroud of Sorrow on Blood Queen. So a very good talent for that fight. Not sure about other important abilities yet (Mutated Plague would be a good one to check).


United States Online
Old 01/20/10, 4:55 PM   #2925
weaselmortis
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Argent Dawn
Something to think about with the 2 piece T10 bonus, if you take points out of Improved Mark, you can't use GotW to force proc Omen of Clarity anymore.

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Moonkin DPS Spreadsheet Efejel Druids 1925 11/04/08 2:34 PM
Infraction for Moonkin Kai: Grammar Praetorian The Banhammer 0 06/02/08 6:28 PM
Moonkin Arena set in 2.4 nero Player vs. Player 30 05/21/08 4:41 PM
Moonkin DPS Calculator? Aadar Class Mechanics 87 04/16/07 2:31 AM
Raiding with ferals, moonkin, shadowpriests, etc Liandra Public Discussion 74 08/29/06 7:49 PM