Moonkin Raiding - Page 196

• Hamlet · 01/20/10, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by weaselmortis

Something to think about with the 2 piece T10 bonus, if you take points out of Improved Mark, you can't use GotW to force proc Omen of Clarity anymore.

D'oh. Yeah, that's true. Guess you'd need to take them out of Furor. It's not much worse.

qae · 01/20/10, 6:57 PM

A quick note for the owners of Nibelung : Shroud of Sorrow, on the Blood Queen, will damage (and eventually kill) your Valkyrs, so the staff looses quite a lot of its value for this fight.
I hope it gets fixed, but on the other side if it does, Shroud of Sorrow may no longer proc OF, as most of the area of effect damages that don't touch the Valkyrs won't proc OF.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Mutated plague doesn't proc OF.

• Hamlet · 01/20/10, 7:07 PM

It also seems possible for a Val'kyr to pull BQL while you're fighting the Princes (there's a log on the BB where this may have happened). I'd watch out for this.

Najtrok · 01/20/10, 9:35 PM

I have 1/3 OF specced, since I don't need Gale Winds anymore. We downed the Lady but I have no Logs here. What I do have is a Putricide Log where I get 1 OF proc and I can't find any more damage than one Tick of "Mutated Transformation".

If you want to double check you may check out the logs
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
This is a small time range in which OF procced. The time it procced was exactly 20:55:46.841
So you may have a look on your own.
Further I checked the logs an saw:
Coldflame procs (we know that)

I had no procs on Deathwhisper or Saurfang as far as I know.

On Rotface some of the slimes AoE-damage procced my OF, but I haven't seen anything else.
On Festergut I haven't seen procs I think.

On the Gale Winds disucssion:
Saurfangs adds take 75% reduced damage from AoE, so Typhoon is just a knockback tool (unless it does not count as AoE).

On WrathCalcs:
Has the change you made greatly increased the benefit from haste? Before it, haste was on par with crit since today, where I got crit capped.

Now with your new version haste is rated 1.22 vs crit 1.09. Since I have reign, I would have assumed crit gains more benefit than haste.
Can you explain the difference for me?

/Edit: What is BQL?

• Hamlet · 01/20/10, 9:53 PM

Blood-Queen Lana'thel.

OF: I can't tell what that procced from. Filtering in all damage or aura events targeting you, there's nothing at right time except for that Mutated Transformation tick. But it can't be just that, since it hit you 140 times during the fight and you only got one proc. I've seen similar logs of Festergut--there are procs I can't figure out, but the rate isn't high enough to explain Gaseous Plague being able to proc it.

WC: The IS change above increased the value of haste, since it reduced overall NG uptime. Remember that crit's about to dip in value for everyone soon as you upgrade out of 2T9 (only slightly, since 4T10 also helps crit, but not by as much). Even if the new IS model is too conservative, I think haste is going to be better at post-cap levels. It was slightly better in good gear even before I made the last change.

qae · 01/21/10, 11:28 AM

Sometimes OF procs of some "events" in the fights, unrelated to damages. For example, when Anub is changing target while in burrow phase, it will sometime procs OF even though I didn't take any damages. I keep track of OF procs with Power Aura and I saw a lot of unexplainable procs, but most of them where happening at the same time as bosses changing target and phases transitions.

Say you are targeted by Putricide's maleable goo, it could be procing OF, even if you avoid it.

jtalaimo10 · 01/21/10, 1:42 PM

I know you guys have spoken about when we have "high haste" and when it doesn't proc off consecutive starfires that we lose a bit of that trinkets dps from it. My question is, what exactly is that "high haste" number; and was the trinkets modeled in the previous page at that 800 haste or so have the starfires proccing.

Basically trying to figure out what the Reign's haste cap is, and if it was modeled with high haste and still given consecutive procs.

Edit: rephrasing question

Yijiao · 01/21/10, 3:05 PM

I have tested reign at various levels of haste, and the reality is this...

When a crit is between 0 and 1.9 seconds after the one that proc'd a mote, you have a 0% chance to proc another.

When a crit is greater than 2.1 seconds after the one that proc'd a mote, you have a 100% chance to proc another.

When a crit is between 1.9 and 2.1 seconds after the one that previously proc'd a mote, the chance seems random, especially due to changing relationship between computer and internet packet reception, and, quite simply, it may just be built that way. I haven't seen the result be consistent in that time from in one way or the other between either 1.9 and 2.0 or 2.0 to 2.1.

Gearing for reign seems particularly difficult, especially considering after t9 2pc is dropped, haste is significantly better past soft cap, and that would place even more damaging(in terms of our DPS) effects on our output.

That being said, I got a DFO last night, and I have to say, that thing is the real deal...seemed to proc almost immediately after the 45 second GCD was up on DoT ticks, spells, innervates, everything. I would say the uptime is at least once every 50 seconds starting with 20 seconds initial.

That means, on a 5 minute fight, it averages 577 spell damage for 20 seconds at 0-20, 50-1:10, 1:40-2:00, 2:30-2:50, 3:20-3:40, 4:10-4:30, proc again at end at 5:00-5:20 if its a little longer(like bloodqueen). 7 procs over the bloodqueen soft enrage...140 of averaging an extra 577 SP, 140 seconds out of 320. That averages to about 250 Spell Power over the fight in addition to the static 155 haste. Really, an incredible trinket.

• Hamlet · 01/21/10, 3:08 PM

I don't think anyone ever figured out exactly where the haste cap for Reign is. I can only assume people will be well over it by the time we're in BIS gear. When I did trinkets a few pages back, I modeled it both ways--not sure what the person more recently did. But if he was using WC and very high levels of haste, his numbers probably reflect post-cap Reign. WC stops allowing consecutive Reign procs when the total Starfire cast time (real cast time + user-specified delay) drops under 2 seconds.

e: ok, that's helpful. I think we can be confident that at high-ICC levels of haste, Reign won't proc twice--Starfire goes well under 1.9s.

DFO: Can you confirm DoT ticks for sure? That shortens the proc time to less than the 55s we'd been using to model.

Yijiao · 01/21/10, 3:34 PM

Ok, I used insect swarm to see if DoT damage procs it, and it doesn't appear to do so. Tested MF and the initial damage does appear to. Spammed IS as well, which seemed to proc on initial damage, but it was marginal at best.

That being said, I did some time testing over faerie fire using normal rotation with keeping HoTs...first proc was at 4:50, second at 4:02, third at 3:13, fourth at 2:20, fifth at 1:31, 6th at :44, 7th about 5 seconds after it came off. I will do more testing, but it seems okay, and proc rate would increase with haste, as I have 650 unbuffed, which, with haste totem, is about 475 unbuffed in raid with totem.

So DoTs do not proc it, but initial casts do, average time between procs seems about 50 seconds, but that could be skewed by fights heavier in movement, in both usefulness and chances at procs.

I don't know, I still buy it. I think that its likely going to be more ideal, in terms of uptime, if the CD is up with wrath coming up for more chances, but considering the average rotation is 36 seconds, it would be nearly impossible to try to line that up, heh.

Will be back in a bit with more.

EDIT: I am going to test it on just wrath, just starfire too, to see the average proc rate with each as the culprit.

Zifrelm · 01/21/10, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

When I did trinkets a few pages back, I modeled it both ways--not sure what the person more recently did. But if he was using WC and very high levels of haste, his numbers probably reflect post-cap Reign.

I was trying to see how the trinkets scaled at higher gear levels, so the trinketless haste was very high (809, IIRC), and I did indeed use WC. I wasn't certain at the time whether it was modeling sub-1.9 Starfire casts properly, but you just confirmed that it was, so that's good.

Originally Posted by Barlee

Im very curious if anyone has any recent info regarding the possible buff of E&M from 3% to 6%

The post you linked to is the only thing I've seen about it. They said it'd be in the next minor patch, which I imagine will be when the Lich King unlocks (since nobody has been able to datamine much about that encounter, the loot, or the cinematic).

Froo · 01/21/10, 4:05 PM

I did a lot of testing when I got DFO. I never found it to be able to proc off dot ticks. It can proc from moonfire and insect swarm applications.

• Hamlet · 01/21/10, 4:13 PM

Ok, that's what I suspected since it's a "your harmful spells have a chance" effect. Next question: why are proc times looking closer to 50s than 55s if it's a 10% proc chance:
Item - Icecrown 25 Normal Caster Trinket 1 Base - Spell - World of Warcraft

Mortilia · 01/21/10, 4:49 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

3) Important consequences of IS change:
--IS is barely worth casting. You really want to interfere with the Eclipse cycle as little as possible while using it now. And in fights with movement, it might be worth reserving IS almost entirely to cast during movement.
...
--I want to re-examine the old question of refreshing DoTs after Eclipse only, now that they're so much weaker.

So from what I understand of the previous posts, once we get crit capped, IS and MF will be so weak that we'll probably only cast IS while moving, and MF only while trying to proc lunar. Which means the 3% crit on iIS are completely wasted (except for the 2 starfires you'll cast to proc solar if moonfire is still up), and the 3% damage to wrath will only apply if we cast wrath after we stop movement. I'm wondering where that puts iIS ? If it goes below 0.3% damage increase per talent point, I'm seriously considering bramble / OF over iIS.

Thomppi · 01/21/10, 5:15 PM

about DFO i can confirm that it gains a stack from a dot tick so this is really a nice trinket.