Apologies if this was answered previously: was/is there consensus on stop-casting an extra wrath when eclipse procs to immediately start the eclipsed starfire, or better to just let the extra wrath fly? Sitting on about 150-180 latency lately, so I'm relying on the pre-cast pretty heavilly. Thanks!

Stopping a cast in progress is never the right choice when it comes to Eclipse. You will always lose too much casting time to make it worthwhile.

e:Dammit, Dope!

thaddius is a pretty tough encounter when it come to keep an eye on the proc, bec you should in any case stop casting and get the hell out of your side if there is a switch, even if your happy that the damn thing finally proced

to the typhoon topic: beside the damage and the occasional whining of meeles bec of the knock back (well, its aktually is annoying) it's very usefull eg at Gluth to kick the adds back into the room before they can reach him! or simply ridding a healer if the offtanks is too slow.

btw: Kel down an hour ago

Then if crit costs "more" on itemization compared to hit, it could be worth to trade BoP for ff or Iis? (though it would have to be twice as costly, so maybe not...)

I've been operating under BoP being a very good talent due to freeing up many item budget points for a "low" talent point cost. Is this still true?

Had our first Naxx 25tonight.
- Moonkin dps feels very strong, fx 4.7k dps (Wow Web Stats)
- With Intensity, Omen of Clarity, 1/3 Moonglow mana felt like a non-issue - Even though I do my best to avoid spirit & mp5 on gear. Only Kel'thuzad was a problem, but our kill was very messy & I tried going maxdps rotation to see the result.
- With the amount of crit % buffs a 25man offers then running 2/3 eclipse felt just fine. Was using Starfire to proc it mostly though.

I'm still torn on how to handle rotations during heroism &/or Potion of Speed - With both up it feels wrong using anything apart from Starfire as dotting/casting wrath & getting 0.3-0.4 seconds of waiting time gives me a bad feeling. My performance seems to drop compared to mages & hunters while under the same hastebuffs.

It seems to me that a number of the things suggested give you better numbers maybe over the raid, however in my eyes the things that count are in boss fights where it is more typically 1 target rather than multiple.

In terms of progression it is the boss fights that pose problems not AoE trash pulls
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
would stand to reason to be the best spec for those conditions with a possibility at changing Nature's Reach for Imp MF. depending on your Glyphs.

If someone has a Reason why they think AoE moves imps or treants would be a better Single target dps boost, then please illustrate it. I don't have math at my back to straighten my point this spec just seemed the most logical for those ends.

Treants: Look at Ashaera's Patchwerk parse, and you'll see Treants did nearly 70k damage, over a ~240 second fight. If you assume that this is two casts then your GCD for the ability will mean ~2.5 seconds total cast time, or 28000 damage per second for casting. If you can keep them alive, they do a lot of damage. If you can't, then maximising their uptime and casting them at a good point (see: KT after he casts a frostbolt volley, Malygos after a vortex) you will still gain enough damage out of them that it's worth casting them and taking the talent point.

I'm not sure why you took so much regen? You should take as much regen as you require, don't just take every talent point of regen and assume it's a non-issue. When you're going for a maximum DPS spec, this doesn't quite add up, especially as the only way to spend that much mana is through the use of a lot of AoE, something you're specifically trying to avoid with that spec?

I will surely stick to 2/2 Gale Winds, Typhoon & Starfall as long as we are running Naxxramas -- Its a huge instance with quite alot of trash that can be aoe'd down - Sure noone cares what number you are on trash dps. But for speeding up instance clears, trash is usually what matters the most.

Agreed. At the very least I can't agree with EVER removing 2/2 Gale Winds if you care about anything other than your personal single target DPS number. The type of raider that thinks 'trash doesn't matter' also afk's through it and causes a two night clear to take three nights. You have more time for progression attempts if you clear bosses faster, most raid groups don't have unlimited time to play.

I've also had individuals in-game still thinking that our aoe dps was subpar compared to other aoe classes, and that we can't aoe on the move at all because we don't have arcane explosion. Typhoon is just so powerful and is really our new iconic spell; every single day I play I'm rewarded for using it properly. Hurricane is fully competitive with any other aoe class (It's also very useful when non-warriors are aoe tanking to apply pack-wide attack speed slow).


I don't feel Starfall is an easy pick in a spec where you need IFF but very doable when you can spec out of IFF.

I am literally destroying everyone in AoE, only locks come close and that is when you can stand still. Mages seem to be the worst off at the moment, on Gluth last night (which Typhoon absolutely owns on BTW!) our mages were whining about being OOM when I was on 50% mana with Innervate and Pot still available. Mana was a major AoE concern after the nerfbat on Moonkin form but since getting 80 and being able to spec a few points in the regen talents + OOC mana problems have been a thing of the past.

I think the trick with the AoE is forward thinking, you need to be able to guess where mobs are going and it helps if you know your tanks well.

I specced out of Starfall as IFF was needed as our SP's are failing at levelling but I don't really miss it and the damage it did was quite poor.

After playing a mage for three years and switching to Moonkin my biggest concern was AoE but I don't regret a thing.

I did Naxx 25 for the first time last night without 2/2 GW and I did end up regretting that choice. I was 3/3 Owlkin as a holdover from Sunwell, but I'll be dropping those 3.

If I remember though from the LK preview discussion Starfall was worth more dps than 1 point in iIS (based on Erdluf's math/rankings that he did at some point assuming 2000 spell power). I believe that the second point in Eclipse was worth more than a point in iIS as well, so I'm thinking something like 56/0/15, but I could be wrong about that second Eclipse point.