I don't think W eclipse is better anywhere. With a little haste u get GCD problems because of Nature's Grace. At least thats the problem i run in to. Anyone who disagrees ?

I disagree. At Loatheb my average wrath crit was 7561 and its 1s cast with natures grace. My average starfire crit at Loatheb was 11191 and its aprox 2s cast with natures grace.

Heres the Loatheb wws: Wow Web Stats

Its not hard to count from there that wrath eclipses are superior at Loatheb. I even dare to say that wrath eclipse is better at lower crit levels as well. The question is at which level wrath eclipse becomes better?

Lets do a bit of math.
1. A druid has 60% crit and his average wrath hits for 2400
2. A druid has 60% crit and his average SF hits for 4426
3. Lets assume that with natures grace SF cast is 2.13s and W cast is 1s.
I got the average damages by shooting 100 noncrit spells of wrath and SF to heroic training dummy without using proc trinkets or idol.

We are spamming 100 spells of each
100 spells of eclipsed wrath: 100*1.6*(2400*1.2)/(40*1.31s+60*1s) = 460800dmg/112.4s = 4099,6dps
100 spells of eclipsed SF dmg: 100*1.9*4426/(90*2.13s+10*2.63) = 840940dmg/218s = 3857,5dps


So with 60% crit and the above damage and haste values wrath eclipse wins by aprox 250dps!
60% crit is quite reasonable raid buffed with best gear currently available
Average damage values for SF and W would be a lot higher in raid environment.
Haste values are somewhat accurate and reflects raid values.

Things to test:
1. I havent tested how different Idols effect the outcome
2. I dont know how spellpower scales with wrath and sf so I used my unbuffed values for determining SF/W average damage instead of reasonable raid values. (I had exactly 2000 spellpower when I spanked the dummy).
3. This is theory. I dont know how lag effects on 1s wrath casts vs 2.13s SF casts.

You will never see 1s Wrath casts. You'll see 1+x, where X is your latency, including ping and reaction time. Second, if your NG'd Starfires are 2.13s, your non-NG'd Starfires are going to be less than 2.63s. NG comes before haste, so with any haste, the benefit of NG is lower. It's best to count NG as 20% haste, multiplicative, for SF.

Wrath eclipse is better on Loatheb if you're going to go past 100% crit on SF with Eclipse. Otherwise, SF eclipse should win except at low gear levels.

Heya.
Been using the MF/IS/Wrath to Eclipse then Starfire since i started raiding at 80 and it works pretty well but im starting to wonder if i should change this now?
Today i got 3 new items and it seems that its a waste to use Wrath as much as i do, even more so with my new items.

My Druid
The World of Warcraft Armory

Latest WWS from 25man Naxx and Sarth
Wow Web Stats

Overall it looks good but there are plenty of occasions i am low or really low on the list, is it me or are the others overpowered? ^^

One last thing, i can afford the T7.5 shoulders, should i get them even if they are a minor upgrade or save 15 more badges and buy the legs instead which is a bigger upgrade?
Any way i finally get the 4 piece set bonus that i really want.

Thanks.

Read the tooltip (Ill be nice & give you a hint : increasing your critical strike chance with starfire)


@lillbrorsan - Look abit in the other moonkin threads for suggestions on what gear to go for. From 25man badges there are 2useful items if you ask me. The spirit+haste ring & T7 shoulders - I would grab T7 shoulders now as the 4piece bonus helps alot, there are better leggings to use than T7.

Small detail, I allways cast Insect Swarm first, then Moonfire. Gives me a little more time to get Eclipse procced within the Moonfire dot period.

That threat reduction is very needed, 30% threat reduction is crazy when you begin to raid, if you are critting EVERY eclipse when you use your starfire (And I mean when starfire eclipse is proc'd from wrath spamming crits) That will come out as ALOT of threat without that reduction.

Not necessarily, i have 23% crit chance and i almost NEVER go oom (level 80), but i do have a few spirit, although when i do go oom it's when the mana intensive fights occur (A.e. Patchwerks, crashing out on spamming wrath hurts since it's 60% and not 100%, and of course, KT, that first part when you are trying to kill the inc. skeletons is a pain since I am used to wrathing them, and I would cast it, and a hunter comes up and 1 shots it with his auto shot, leaving me with 349 mana gone from my pool.), but if you are really having problems on mana and you NEED replenish then you need a bigger mana pool, my crits suffice mine, and I do occasionally innervate myself, mostly use pots since healers need it > me.

The build is alright, but gale's winds is WORTHLESS for raiding, since you don't have typhoon and you will 1/10000 times use hurricane, MAYBE, but mostly only because of the plague side. I see no point in it and you should throw the other 2 into the nature's reach.

Good plan, but the initial damage of the moonfire's first hit does more dps > insect swarms first tick (Since it doesn't go off right when you hit it), and if your rolling with the moonfire glyph then you would want moonfire first, since it would do about 400 more damage than insect swarm (for me on the ticks). I understand you want the moonfire to last for the eclipse, but since the starfire glyph nerf, i'd say just remoonfire once eclipse procs, it's 13.5 seconds of eclipse instead of 15, but you get all that damage from moonfire and the crit chance from it, instead of running out of moonfire with 3 seconds left on eclipse and you not being able to pull the last one off.

Hello.. How much spell haste should a moonkin druid aim for??

I agree with this completely, I can tell by the guys gear who stated gale winds is worthless that the only raiding he does is pug pickup naxx's and such

take a fight like multiple drake sarth for example, many occassions during that fight you cast hurricane, and any extra dmg on an ability has some use in raiding, saying the talent is worthless is ignorant, grats on that

In fact, I use a MF + IS to catch them. The healers in almost all cases get aggro before I do, so my threat has to overcome the 130% mark. I found that applying both dots is necessary to ensure that.

The positive side effect of this "dot and forget" tactic is that I ping-pong the zombies: First they move to the raid, and after 4-7 seconds, they decide to come for me. This gives me some time to move the big group following me into the right position so the additional zombies join them.

As for mana: I've never had problems there. Even putting MF + IS on every zombie, and using Typhoon to get some distance (not on every cooldown though), and using Hurricane after Decimate. I innervate myself, and that's enough.

If I were to pick up gale winds, what would I switch out? The World of Warcraft Armory, I can't find anything viable to switch out for the two points and the reason I was saying that 80% was because the guy didn't have typhoon. And if i am to switch into gale winds, I'd most likely pick up typhoon but I still can't see anything I would pull 3 points out for those 3 talents.