Moonkin Raiding - Page 22

Triks · 01/15/09, 2:49 AM

Doing patch Thursday, I'll post mine after the raid.

Ashaera · 01/15/09, 3:41 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

More parses are always nice.

Here is a decent selection of high end moonkin parses, still alot of guilds not using it but loads to compare to either way.
Druid top 10 lists

mokg · 01/15/09, 4:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ashaera

Here is a decent selection of high end moonkin parses, still alot of guilds not using it but loads to compare to either way.
Druid top 10 lists

Website is kinda buggy, I did 5999 dps on Noth and it still won't update after being uploaded two days ago.

Nebel · 01/15/09, 4:00 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Got a decent parse today. A bit laggy, and a bit weird since we MD'd Patchwerk from behind the slimes, but should be informative:
Wow Web Stats

I haven't been able to figure out yet if there are subtle differences in rotation (such as when to refresh DoT's, etc.), that are causing DPS differences among people in the 5k range. More parses are always nice.

Last night, we did Patchwerk and I was topping the meters with ~4,3k dps and 900k dmg in total. Comparing my stats with yours I see only marginal differences. The ratios (spell / % of total dmg, % crit, AvHit, ... ) are very similar. Our gear and spell rotation seem to be quite the same. So where does your +700 dps come from?

I think, the main difference between moonkins with 4k dps and those with 5k dps on patchwerk is that the performance of the other raid members is much better amongst the 5k people. This makes the fight shorter and makes the effects of heroism (and other buffs and abilities on cd) count in more.

On the first 30s of the encounter (with heroism, treants, starfall, ...) recount shows my dps at ~6,2k. It then decreases (of course) as all these nice buffs fall off after 30s. So my final dps depends mainly on how long the fight takes. The shorter it is - the higher my dps. Our fight yesterday took 3:33 (yours: 2:47). I think, this where the big dps difference comes from.

Conclusion: if you want to do more dps on Patchwerk go and look for a better raid.

mokg · 01/15/09, 4:04 AM

Originally Posted by Nebel

Last night, we did Patchwerk and I was topping the meters with ~4,3k dps and 900k dmg in total. Comparing my stats with yours I see only marginal differences. The ratios (spell / % of total dmg, % crit, AvHit, ... ) are very similar. Our gear and spell rotation seem to be quite the same. So where does your +700 dps come from?

I think, the main difference between moonkins with 4k dps and those with 5k dps on patchwerk is that the performance of the other raid members is much better amongst the 5k people. This makes the fight shorter and makes the effects of heroism (and other buffs and abilities on cd) count in more.

On the first 30s of the encounter (with heroism, treants, starfall, ...) recount shows my dps at ~6,2k. It then decreases (of course) as all these nice buffs fall off after 30s. So my final dps depends mainly on how long the fight takes. The shorter it is - the higher my dps. Our fight yesterday took 3:33 (yours: 2:47). I think, this where the big dps difference comes from.

Conclusion: if you want to do more dps on Patchwerk go and look for a better raid.

You should probably wait to pop heroism then. Using it at 35% means your mages and affliction warlocks get extra benefit which will lead to a quicker kill. Also it should still be up at <20% which means warriors will also get a nice boost from it.

ninor · 01/15/09, 4:15 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Got a decent parse today. A bit laggy, and a bit weird since we MD'd Patchwerk from behind the slimes, but should be informative:
Wow Web Stats

I haven't been able to figure out yet if there are subtle differences in rotation (such as when to refresh DoT's, etc.), that are causing DPS differences among people in the 5k range. More parses are always nice.

I'm not in the 5k range quite yet, but I find your parse quite interesting because your raid is very similar to mine.

Now our server is notoriously bad and I'm having some fps issues in 25's, but this WWS is fairly close to yours. Now I'm at 4.5k, but the differences between what you do and what I do isn't obvious to me.

You have 75 casts of starfire/wrath, and I have 71, which is in part because your parse is 5 sec longer and partly lag I guess. You also seem to have some better gear than what I had in that parse, but I have one more eclipse proc which should help that difference a bit.

The obvious difference is you casting more starfire than me, which I'm am guessing is because you cast starfire outside of eclipse procs to prolong moonfire. I have been bad at doing that, and it seems to hurt my performance. Would that be correct? Is there anything else I'm obviously doing wrong?

Ashaera · 01/15/09, 4:26 AM

Originally Posted by ninor

Is there anything else I'm obviously doing wrong?

Wow Web Stats -> Not casting trees just before heroism.

Originally Posted by Nebel

Conclusion: if you want to do more dps on Patchwerk go and look for a better raid.

To some extend I disagree, having optimal setup matters alot for your dps - But kill time seems to hurt slightly less, atleast till it goes down to around 2minutes. Theres not much difference between the gain from higher heroism uptime in a 2.30parse, till the benefit on 2 rounds of trees in a 3.30 one.
Did 17man Patchwerk last night, ill post you a slow kill 5k+ parse once it gets uploaded.

mokg · 01/15/09, 4:28 AM

Originally Posted by Ashaera

Wow Web Stats -> Not casting trees just before heroism.

Also not picking up celestial focus.

ninor · 01/15/09, 4:37 AM

Originally Posted by mokg

Also not picking up celestial focus.

Ah, I forgot to say my current build is not the same as the one in that parse.

This is what I had then: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

My current build is because we're doing 10 man sartharion without spriest or other replenishers. Celestial focus just had to go :/

spartakos · 01/15/09, 4:46 AM

Wow Web Stats
Although Rokaz used eclipsed wrath it seems we scale really bad with BL/Heroism compared to other ranged dps.
P.S. Not a buggy HAT rogue stacking kill.

Ashaera · 01/15/09, 4:47 AM

My turn: Not having Imp. Faerie Fire! (3% crit for 3 points is a pretty sweet deal)
Id take a close look on your actual mana needs - Is 3/3 Intensity really needed? 1x Moonglow->1x Genesis is a small dps boost aswell but only if you dont need the mana.

Originally Posted by spartakos

Although Rokaz used eclipsed wrath it seems we scale really bad with BL/Heroism compared to other ranged dps

While your conclusion is right, its an odd parse. He procced Eclipse with Wrath all 3 times though, so 49% critrate on Starfire is very bad luck & his IS uptime is costing him dps aswell.

Starfox · 01/15/09, 7:48 AM

Originally Posted by Ashaera

While your conclusion is right, its an odd parse. He procced Eclipse with Wrath all 3 times though, so 49% critrate on Starfire is very bad luck & his IS uptime is costing him dps aswell.

I tested it with SimulationCraft.
2t7+4t7, IS/MF/SF glyph
Druid1: only cast IS when your next spell would be wrath
Druid2: do not cast IS at all
Druid3: cast IS if you do not have eclispse procced
Fightlength: ~280s (set to 300 and the simulator calculates all dmg done at the 150s mark and implies that this is exactly 50% of the HP, bloodlust at 35% then)
The above was also the dps ranking, but Druid3 was only about 1% less dps then Druid1 with Druid2 in the middle.
And Rokaz had only 14 IS dots, 2 casts, which he probably did while trying to procc eclipse.
He is just maxing it out, but yea, the RNG owned him with his SF critrate

Eilt · 01/15/09, 8:27 AM

Wow Web Stats - Patchwerk

Now I know that I don't have the perfect dream set yet, and I am wasting some possible spellpower because I am waiting on a few drops to get myself down to the hit cap, but here is my concern...

The WWS I see moonkins doing very well in all have them in the 4k-5k range, which is not bad. But the other end I see Hunters/Mages/Locks etc, all coming close to breaking 6-7k. So if your raid has good mages for example, they will be pushing 6k on a patch while a moonkin appears to be on top of his game at around 5k DPS. Maybe it is just my worrying too much, but this kinda scares me in an environment where we should be pretty close to other pure DPS classes.

I only put up IS if I am refreshing MF(and eclipse is not activated), or I am about to cast wrathh to proc an eclipse.

dukes · 01/15/09, 8:31 AM

Finally got a decent lag free Patchwerk kill:
Wow Web Stats

Comments:
- My second eclipse took nearly 30 seconds to proc after ICD ran out even with 60% wrath crit rate (go to buffs/gains on my char, then eclipse -> browse log file and you can see the gap) so I lost quite a lot of damage there. Looking at the log, it's actually 8 crit wraths before eclipse procs.
- I was only casting IS when eclipse wasn't active, and even then wasn't keeping full track of when it ran out.
- Starfire crit rate was ~= to wrath crit rate, even with using a Starfire benefitting eclipse. I think it's mostly a good wrath crit rate rather than bad starfire crit rate though (~27.5% crit buffed, works out to about 52% expected crit rate with SF/Wrath).
- Bloodlust was cast at 35%, used treants about 10 seconds too early. No DPS warrior so I couldn't ask for BS either.
- I used a wild magic potion instead of a haste potion as I didn't realise I had some haste potions on me at the time.

As to scaling with Bloodlust - we do scale pretty well in general, the problem is cooldowns. Most other classes have some significant cooldown that can gain them a lot of damage from bloodlust (e.g. icy veins/combustion for mages) - the only thing we have is Treants which only gain 30% haste themselves. We have no 'personal' cooldowns to use to buff our damage. Not to mention that on a fight that short, randomness will affect your damage more than playstyle by quite a long way, although that's true of just about any fight length (such as my minute-long gap between eclipses). Randomness affects other classes more in some cases though, such as Mages who gain a lot from crit streaks but can have (relatively) terrible DPS if only every other spell is a crit due to the mechanics of Hot Streak.

ninor · 01/15/09, 8:52 AM

@Dukes: How many Starfires do you cast outside of eclipse procs+cooldown? Do you focus on getting 3 Starfires in during every MF regardless of eclipse status?

@Ashaera: I can probably skip some mana talents. I haven't really bothered maximizing for that since Stormscale usually is unplayable, not unlike Al'akir I guess. I have that one try in the parse I posted because we scheduled a raid for 2200. We did the same this week, and it was unplayable again. Our kill this week took a minute longer, and I managed to cast ~10 spells less. I was mostly looking for things in my playstyle that aren't optimal, such as when to use pets like you commented earlier. So thanks for that