In terms of glyphs, it seems clear by now that GoIS is a goner, and people are playing around with GoFocus now. It really comes down to that, or GoStarfall. How can GoF be a valid choice? Going from Starfox' numbers, with his "low" PTR spell power, starfall does 35.000 single target damage.

Starfall: 35.000 / 60 = 583 DPS
Focus: 35.000 * 1.2 / 90 = 466 DPS.

Its not a big suprise that GoStarfall is still a valid choice, and the reduced range with Glyph of Focus just spells disaster. Then again, there are some fights where you might want to contain your starfall, say, on Blood Council, if you want to pop your starfall without grabbing stars. I think that is the only real suggestion i can come up with, though.

Are you absolutely certain? I seem to recall someone mentioning that you can round up a lot of stars quickly by using starfall.

I'm absolutely certain.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Look at my damage by spell (includes starfall 53k) and then go to damage by actor, then click on dark nucleus and look at their damage taken. You won't find starfall there (though the three errant wraths were mine *blush*).

How about ditch both Starfire and Moonfire glyphs, rolling with Glyph of Starfall, Focus and Insect Swarm. This would essentially mean you'd be dropping MF from your rotation and freeing up two glyph slots for buffing the incoming improved starfall.

I'm factoring in the following:

The T10 Idol no longer requires high MF uptime, IS alone will suffice.

The +Crit Element of the IIS talent is wasted on the most part, due to the soft crit cap. The damage increase to Wrath from IS however remains valuable.

If you wanted to use both Focus and Starfall glyphs but wanted to keep MF in your rotation - It would mean either losing MF extensions or losing MF DoT glyph. Either of these loses would make MF weaker than glyphed IS.

Positional requirements of GoF shouldn't be a problem if you've got a knowledgeable raid leader willing to take advantage of it. Demo warlocks are in a similar position where they can get a DPS increase by getting access to Melee range for Immolation Aura, a good raid leader will allow them to take advantage of it whenever it's safe.

Best I can tell at the moment, Moonfire is the best Glyph to drop to make room for Focus. I'd use Focus anytime the range isn't an issue (there are a number of fights where it will be fine). I'd also definitely use Focus anytime there was a chance of hitting multiple targets.

Can you elaborate on this please? Am I correct to assume that you mean that you'd be using Focus, Starfall and Starfire? If you drop the Moonfire glyph, it would seem to me that the only meaningful benefit of extending the moonfire DoT would be for Idol proccing. But when casting Starfire (done pretty much exclusively during lunar eclipse) maintaining the idol isn't all that important anyway given that we're well over the lunar crit cap.

Dropping the moonfire glyph seems to weaken moonfire to the point that unless it is fully extended, it is a dps loss. Also, glyph of starfire makes a fully extended moonfire worth more than a glyphed insect swarm.

I wouldn't think that the 3% miss should be factored in to the decision unless your guild has already told you that they need it, seems that if the tanks haven't needed it from you before they wouldn't need it now.

What is going on in these last four posts? Has anyone besides me attempted to do a lick of math or are you all just articulating complete guesses for no reason?

Now, there are some live issues here. Glyph of IS is a small DPS increase. This is the same as right now. Just like right now, I think it's generally better to leave the Glyph out for purposes of the -hit debuff. And barring that, the best DPS Glyphs in the spreadsheet are Starfall/Starfire/Focus. There might be important things to examine more closely there as well, such as the range problems of Focus or how often you're really extending Moonfire. So there's a lot to talk about. But we don't need everyone going off on what "seems" like it must be better or worse based on naked speculation. There's WC, there's Rawr, there's SimC, etc., just like always. Play with them or any model you want, but put a bit of effort into it if you're going to post.

In regards to the last few posts, they can be mathematically supported.

I posted this about a page ago, but if you look at the the numbers, Glyph of Starfire and Glyph of Moonfire are dependant on each other (obviously). Eliminating one of the two from your glyph setup, will reduce the value of MF enough that ONE glyphed IS will beat out ONE glyphed MF.

To prove this (I'm not at my home computer right now, but I will post the actual numbers when I get home) I went back through my last few raids to calculate the damage done by moonfire under the effects of a) both glyphs, b) Starfire glyph, c) Moonfire glyph. Now this is taking into account some assumptions that on average you don't extend your MF's every single time you put one up.

There is a much harder to model factor at hand here though in regards to keeping the 264 Idol up at all times. Using Glyph of Starfire allows you to theoretically cast 1 DoT every 36 seconds (assuming you fully extend it), while if you're casting only IS, you have to recast every 27 seconds. This is also the case if you use the Moonfire glyph only instead of the Starfire glyph only. Note - the 36 and 27 seconds are purely theoretical, 9/10 times you will have to reapply more often because of latency).

If you had to choose 1 of the 2 moonfire glyphs, theoretically, Glyph of Starfire is superior overall. Damage is roughly equal to only keeping Glyph of Moonfire, and by not casting a mediocre DoT 9 seconds sooner every cycle, you increase dps by not using the mediocre DoT near as often. Note - Mathematically, since glyph of IS is an increase in dps, casting IS rather than a mediocre MF is going to be better even though it will have to be casted more often.

You are correct that the -hit debuff can be very helpful in raids especially on Hard Modes, however, from a strictly dps standpoint, it will be mathematically better to run Starfall, Focus, IS. Personally, I don't like banking on a 3% hit debuff because RNG is RNG. If your guild requires you to or you like it better personally, then more power to you.

I agree though, there are many other factors to consider besides being a dps turret. Movement, range, and raid survivability are all things to consider, but are EXTREMELY hard to model. Because of this modeling problem, strict turret style dps is often the only way to differentiate between rotations/specs/glyphs.

I believe it was stated before that Starfall doesn't appear to damage the nuclei. Going back through a few kills, none of my logs show me doing any damage to the nuclei, either, and I use starfall pretty much on cooldown (except when I suck), without regard to my position relative to the nuclei.