I hate to say this, but why reinvent the wheel here? Most of these calculations are already being done in WC, including DPET, and adding the amount of time you'd want to refresh DoTs before is fairly simple to work in. I know, because I did it on my local copy a week or so ago. IS required ~14s of uptime to justify the lost GCD (with the default gear set), so is right out. MF required, I think, somewhere around 12s (and I was very surprised it required that much). Obviously Eclipsed SF scales better, so those numbers will go down if you're not end-T7 gear, but we're quickly going to be reaching the point where that will be the norm.

I've been thinking of only reapplying all instants once during each eclipse cycle due the interruption of spell queuing being particularly annoying in higher latencies.

My current thinking is to apply IFF, IS, and MF in that order starting at ~6seconds left of the ICD on eclipse and then start Wrathing. This should leave a wrath in the air as the ICD ends, with IS up for the Wrathing, and MF still up when I start to Starfire. Downsides are obviously not 100% dot uptime and I'll be refreshing FF early occasionally, but it's probably an "easier" rotation to start out with, and could be better under high latency, thoughts?

I think it's a sound system w.r.t. IFF and MF. IS, I'd still prefer my usual system of 2 IS's per cycle--at the beginning and end of the Eclipse ICD. Losing one extra ping because you can't queue instants shouldn't scare you away from casting high-damage DoT's when there's no opportunity cost.

And note the problem I mentioned earlier about refreshing MF that late: when you're unlucky with an Eclipse proc, you'll miss the MF extension window completely.

I'm not certain that this is something that is actually happening or if it's just my perception that is off.

I haven't started a WWS account and I have been in a 2 person guild mostly pugging raids for the last month, so I can't check stats w/Heroism vs w/o, but it seems to me that often when heroism is used towards the end of an eclipse or during an eclipse c/d it takes me more wraths than usual to get Eclipse to proc. I've thought about faster casting making it seem like more wraths, but I've counted a couple of times and it's taken as much as 14 wraths to get an eclipse proc during heroism.

I usually have about 140-200 ms latency, and SnA usually shows up with 14 seconds, though sometimes I have noticed it come up with 12 or 13.

Do you think this is a latency issue on my part, just plain unlucky RNG, or is this something anyone else has noticed happening with them?

Thank you for your time.

Trust whatever number Rawr is giving you & dont ever open Maxdps again, its still a useless site.

[Leggings of Atrophy] - Cloth aswell, should like Wanton be pretty easy to obtain even if you give clothies prio.
[Legguards of the Boneyard] - A pretty good leather option.

So I was tossin some things around with specs, and I know most everything has been covered, but it seems to me that almost everyone tosses points into omen of clarity, which doesn't make sense to me. Everyone keeps pointing out that putting points into dreamstate or intensity is a waste, well what's the difference with omen? Anyone?

Also, why put points into Nature's reach either for most fights (os3 the exception), and just toss the extra points into brambles and make your trees hit like trucks? A well timed FoN here would give the trees a heroism, and turn on the pwn.

OoC is our best mana talent, which is basically what makes dreamstate and intensity unneeded. OoC>Intensity>Dreamstate>Moonglow. If you have no concerns at all about mana, there's nothing wrong with dropping OoC and putting that point in a dps talent.

Most people take Nature's Reach for the 30% threat reduction over the 6 yard extended reach of spells.

Without threat reduction good geared moonkin will hit for over 5k tps. While most good tanks should be over that in the long run, the problem with dps is that it's spiky. So considering everyone to be good at their job, the threat problem often depends on how much of a headstart you can give to your tanks. And honestly, not only is there no reason to want to wait 5s before starting dps in most fights, there are also a number of them where it's outright bad (think all fights with short enrage timers, Sartharion with drakes or a few achievements).
The extreme example being Sarh3D where you want to start the burst on the drake the instant he enters the fight and with an heroism thrown in the mix. 30% threat reduction is huge in those situations.

Regarding OoC, if you start having to do some heavy AoE, you'll often get all subsequent Hurricanes after the first to be free. (still quite situationa for those without any need for mana talents in normal situations)

2x Nature's Reach means that you have tanks with poor threat -- With 0x Nature's Reach you are gonna need Hand of Salvation on a few select fights (heigan being the obvious example) & with 1x Nature's Reach aggro is practically never an issue.

But this like mana talents are very group dependant & people need to think & adjust their specs accordingly to their own raid, theres no right or wrong answer to help everyone.


@Dynarsarg -> If you wanna claim something weird then provide more background than your gut feeling from one unlucky wrathstreak, or think for 2minutes before posting about whats obviously just unlucky RNG.

edit: typo

Not taking a 15% threat reduction and a situationally useful range increase for a talent that gives about 0.3% dps increase like Brambles is a bit odd. It's just the sheer amount of numbers that tilts the scale in favor of Nature's Reach, in my opinion. Would you take 100Mp5 over 1 SP? The answer is probably yes, only here you get bonuses that aren't attainable in any other way (range increase) or very sparse (threat reduction).

There's so little point in not taking 2/2 Nature's Reach it's almost a waste of time to discuss it. It enables you to go full out on target when locks and mages are just applying debuffs. You get a headstart of a second or two, which is absolutely huge. Also, you arent afraid to not use your first eclipse if it procs on your first wrath (3gcd's into the fight).

Even on malygos 25 6minute achievement (we failed on it last night with 7 seconds over 6min :/) i'll take Nature's reach over .. genesis? anyday.


On another note, i just imput my wishlist gear in rawr, very comparable to most, except for the legs which i chose Mortal arrogance since i'm getting enough hit from Dying curse, Surplus limb and Wyrmrest neck. We have too many casters in my guild for me to blow these items away and go for legs everyone else will want as well. Stat values tend to lean towards crit instead of haste.
2.48 sp
2.01 crit
1.32 haste

I'll try it out in wrathcalcs later.

I know it's been mentioned before, i just wanted to remind everyone, it's too huge a difference to overlook.