I'm 99% sure I read it from the Thread relating to the changes in 3.1. And granted numbers wise Lunar Eclipse may come out on top but I think that by the time you get enough haste to get get 3 SFs in per NG (which is what I meant by needing 810 haste) you will have bypassed so much crit that the whole rotation will be become unwieldy in alot of situations. As such I think the Solar Eclipse might be better because lets face it we've all had those bad nights with LE and ended up casting 30 wraths getting only 3 crits and not one proccing Lunar eclipse (or maybe i'm just very unlucky).

Believe me, I hate lunar just as much as you, but solar still has the problem of wrath simply being too fast of a cast. If we end up with a lot less haste in ulduar, it might become ideal, but even then, cant be using during potion of speed, haste trinkets or bloodlust. Curently both lunar and solar have problems, and those problems cant really be fixed, and are always present in every situation, so we just cant avoid them. Taking longer to proc eclipse or simply wasting eclipse time on GCD? Cant really say wich is preferable, and honestly, I dont think math will end up showing us, will prob be more a question of preferance.

Uhhh... Yeah, I'm pretty firmly in the Lunar-or-Bust camp, not sure where you got that I was against it. There's pretty much no downside to it. You won't clip - or even, really, interact with - the GCD, you get higher DPS out of it, the only tough part is the proc rate sometimes, and even that's debatable. About the only time I could see Solar Eclipse being better is if you have low enough Haste that you're never even close to the GCD on Wrath, but if that's the case you're doing a lot of other things wrong, too.

I know this is an odd question, and very specific, but am I right in thinking that DPS is higher on Loatheb is we proc Solar and spam Wrath, even taking GCD into account, when you're looking at near 100% crit rate? I'm looking at nearly 7k DPS on Wrath Spam with 20%, and even at 100% crit, my SF is doing 12k and taking 1.9s to cast. The only time it seems like it would be worth switching to SF is during Lust.

well, considering the Ulduar-gear we know so far, Solar-Eclipse seems to be no option anyway, due to the fact that there is simply no gear-setup that would provide so little haste (in order to avoid clipping) and massive crit/spellpower to compensate for the loss of stats/ratings.

You can leave out haste, but the only things you could gain are spirit and mp5, which both don't boost our dps enough/at all. Well and hit of course, but only up to a certain point. One would end up trading one dps-boost-stat versus one with far less impact on direct dps. So, it seems pretty obvious to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

I reckon that there is no real point in considering a Solar-based rotation whatsoever. Plus, we don't know if it would theoretically mean higher dps in the first place (which I doubt). Except, obviously if the nature of the encounter favours shorter casttimes somehow, but we usualy don't gear around singe encounter.

One thing that I have been wondering is glyphs come 3.1. Is the standard IS/MF/SF still going to be the top DPS producing glyphs? Or with some of the changes, with say Starfall, allow another glyph to be more valuable? Like say the new [Glyph of Starfall](reduces CD by 30seconds) or [Glyph of Focus]?

This has already been answered more than once. Start reading here: Balance Glyphs

I'm not sure this is true.

We compared the new Starfall glyph Naked against IS and MF and StarFire, but the synergy with 2 Starfall glyphs combined is a separate issue... The first 1 makes the 2nd stronger...

The question becomes: Are the 2 StarFall Glyphs combined worth more than 2 of IS+MF+SF glyphs combined...

Those haste results are a bit counter-intuitive. Looking at Rawr 32524 (I haven't checked to see if WC has the same issues):

- In CalculationsMoonkin.cs it looks as if haste from talents is being added to haste from gear. They should be multiplied. This will make haste look slightly better for SF.

- In Spells.cs cast time calculations are

I'd suggest that both work well with

which will do a better job of adding a bigger relative penalty when the cast time is near 1 second.

The 3/3 NG uptime calculation is (paraphrased)

I can't tell if that is a pre-NG casttime or a post-NG casttime. However for SF and Wrath, haste actually has almost no impact on what fraction of your spells will benefit from NG. Ignoring dots, NG will benefit three Wraths (unless latency is very large) or two Starfires (except possibly during bloodlust+speed potion). I'd recommend using an exponent of either 3 or 2, depending on which spell is your mainNuke.

I suppose you could add in a period of 100% uptime during starfall, so unglyphed your uptime is roughly

1.00*10/180 + 0.85*170/180

where 0.85 is the NG uptime when starfall is down.

Isn't it 3 SFs since theres a cast at 0s (when the buff procs), then another cast at say 1.4s if you've got enough haste to get SF that low with NG up then another at 2.8s since its a haste effect the benefit is active at the start of the spell instead of the end of it like +crit or +dmg. I think i'm right there but I could be wrong

Or will be any time soon, barring trinket procs/on-use. It also, again, doesn't count for reaction time, which adds about .2s per cast and can't be reduced by haste. Realistically, you'd have to get SF under 1.3s reliably. If that were possible, Druid representation in Arena would be much higher than it is.