Well with this new patch and T8 set druids are kinda oriented in a different way. Why do i think that. Well almost all T8 gear set items dont have crit strike rating on, so we are losing much crit strike chance. But whut additional spirit on gear ( 216 total fot 5set bonus, that gives use some 65Sp more ). So eclipse is now kinda difficult to chose. I really can't decide should i go to solar and lunar eclipse. With 2set bonus that is. With Eclipse proc from SF im doing about 11-11.5K crits with wrath and proc from wrath ( lunar ) im doing about 15K crits. In Ulduar you need to move a lot on boss fights and some constantly increase your casting time ( Mimi ) so i think solar eclipse is better ( 1.2sec cast, almost 2x shorter then SF ) but well im also not sure about it. With 4set bonus and a chance to get instant SF well ill go for lunar but atm im not sure.
The reason we increased the proc chance from 5% to 15% is because of the issue where you can lose the proc on an existing Starfire. For a number of technical reasons, we can't apply the proc to a spell already being cast.
As for the last part of GC's statement, I think it's saying that it can't make the currently cast Starfire instant, which isn't even what we want. We want the next Starfire to be instant, ala Nightfall, which is obviously doable. I don't see how upping the proc rate to 15% is supposed to help negate that issue.
As for the last part of GC's statement, I think it's saying that it can't make the currently cast Starfire instant, which isn't even what we want. We want the next Starfire to be instant, ala Nightfall, which is obviously doable. I don't see how upping the proc rate to 15% is supposed to help negate that issue.
Exactly what I got from reading it, no one is asking for our current spellcast to be instant. We just do not want it to eat the buff until the start of the next cast, which is exactly what Nightfall does for Shadow Bolt. Increasing the proc chance (even to 15%) and leaving it in this broken state will seriously devalue the 4pc....Especially for any lunar rotation where you spend 70-80% of your time casting SF meaning the vast majority of procs will be used and no instant starfire would ever get cast....
A lot of people have posted about Nightfall being the same mechanic in the WoW-forums thread. We'll just have to wait and see what comes out of it, there's no point bitching here for the close future.
Just to emphasize what Dukes posted - it's still too early to say how 4T8 will work out:
Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
The problem is that you can't modify a spell's cast time while the spell is already being cast. The tooltip is accurate... if frustrating.
We just talked about it and we might have a solution. It might not be hotfixable, but it shouldn't take until 3.2. We might lower the proc rate if we got it to work however. I'll try and update when we work it out.
But that isn't your next Starfire. That's the one after the next one. The cast time is determined when the cast begins but the spell itself exists when the casting ends.
Like I said, we might have a solution. The Nightfall one is a little complicated, but that may be what we do.
How about, instead of pointless whining, or assessing that the 4pc is "worthless", we put some more effort into theorycrafting how much it is worth as currently stands?
With a 15% proc on IS, you expect about one proc per IS. If you have good IS uptime (refeshing during Eclipse, etc.), then this is one proc per 15 sec. If you are casting SF ~ 2/3 of the time, then you get a useful proc every 45 sec. A proc yields a SF in a GCD (~ 1.25 sec hasted) rather than in the usual average casting time of ~ 2.3 sec. Thus you are "saved" 1.05 sec per 45 sec, giving a dps increase of around 2.3%. This corresponds to 115-140 dps for sustained 5k-6k dps.
With no ICD, the dps value of the proc scales directly with IS uptime.
How about, instead of pointless whining, or assessing that the 4pc is "worthless", we put some more effort into theorycrafting how much it is worth as currently stands?
With a 15% proc on IS, you expect about one proc per IS. If you have good IS uptime (refeshing during Eclipse, etc.), then this is one proc per 15 sec. If you are casting SF ~ 2/3 of the time, then you get a useful proc every 45 sec. A proc yields a SF in a GCD (~ 1.25 sec hasted) rather than in the usual average casting time of ~ 2.3 sec. Thus you are "saved" 1.05 sec per 45 sec, giving a dps increase of around 2.3%. This corresponds to 115-140 dps for sustained 5k-6k dps.
With no ICD, the dps value of the proc scales directly with IS uptime.
Exact same gear, just deactivated tier8_4pc.
Druid_4T8_58_00_13_W_s skips the instant if eclipse is up.
Compare those 65dps to a rogues 4pc bonus, +298dps, thx.
Way to go blizzard :C
Hello.
Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
Here's a version of WC with a quick first-order model of the live version of the bonus.
It adds to the DPS of Wrath with IS up (which already had its own computation due to IIS). Basically, for the W/IS and W/IS/Eclipse DPS computations, the new final DPS is given by:
P = GCD*0.15/2 //Fraction of time spent casting instant SF instead of Wrath.
NewDPS = P*SFDamage/GCD + (1-P)*OldDPS
This does not account for the extended Lunar cycle length due to procs in the Pre-Eclipse phase, and also assumes the IIS crit bonus is present for all bonus Starfires. So it slightly overestimates the bonus.
Using by current gear (in the spreadsheet/Armory), the bonus provides a ~120DPS gain with a switch to a Wrath filler. Again, slight overestimate since the current model can't take into account the possibility of missed Starfire extensions with a Wrath filler cycle.
Before you ask, it won't be at all easy to extend the current model to include the "fixed" version of the bonus--making SF spam DPS depend on the presence of IS would be a whole new dimension to add.
With the massive amount of non aura damage being directed at the entire raid in ulduar has anyone looked at going in with owlkin frenzy? I am going to be trying both that and a solar cycle despite being grossly over hit and haste capped for it.
I still don't get what I do wrong at Hodir hard mode.
First it was "ok take moonbeams asap". This led to me running around too much and having a dps loss. Then it was "wait for storm cloud at the fire then take a moonbeam" again a dps loss since I didn't actually get the storm cloud.
Then there's the issue that even if I hug the fires, getting that damn eclipse to proc. So I'm feeling pretty frustrated by this, I've considered just forgoing eclipse and finding a beam and spamming starfire and dot refreshing but I don't know if in the long run that becomes a dps loss for me.
The other option again is gear crit since I'll be in a beam anyway but then my starfires would be slower as I don't really trust doing a solar rotation in this particular fight.
No matter what I seem to do my dps is way below average and it's starting to piss me off greatly.
Anyone have any tips on what I could be doing wrong?
With the massive amount of non aura damage being directed at the entire raid in ulduar has anyone looked at going in with owlkin frenzy? I am going to be trying both that and a solar cycle despite being grossly over hit and haste capped for it.
Here's an answer from page 51 of this thread.
Originally Posted by Arawethion
This is like the 10th Owlkin Frenzy post that lists every boss fight without doing even a basic bit of math to get any useful results out of it.
Let's say you want a DPS gain of 3% for 3 talent points (pretty typical rule of thumb for DPS talents). With a 10% buff, that means you need 30% uptime to be viable. With a 10 second duration, even ignoring overlaps, you'd need 3 procs every 100 seconds. At a 15% chance to proc, you need to be hit every 5 seconds for this to work. Pretty much no boss encounter has unavoidable things hitting you that frequently.
Hope that answers your question.
Originally Posted by Selini
I still don't get what I do wrong at Hodir hard mode.
First it was "ok take moonbeams asap". This led to me running around too much and having a dps loss. Then it was "wait for storm cloud at the fire then take a moonbeam" again a dps loss since I didn't actually get the moonbeam.
Then there's the issue that even if I hug the fires, getting that damn eclipse to proc. So I'm feeling pretty frustrated by this, I've considered just forgoing eclipse and finding a beam and spamming starfire and dot refreshing but I don't know if in the long run that becomes a dps loss for me.
The other option again is gear crit since I'll be in a beam anyway but then my starfires would be slower as I don't really trust doing a solar rotation in this particular fight.
No matter what I seem to do my dps is way below average and it's starting to piss me off greatly.
Anyone have any tips on what I could be doing wrong?
Try making your priority "moving as little as possible". Which means stand by a fire. That won't bring you the 10k dps or so you need for Hard mode, the rest relies on your luck with the Storm Power. For Hard Mode Hodir, your ranged should mostly be clumped anyways, so you only should have to move a few steps to grab the Storm Cloud if it's on someone in the ranged. Otherwise, keep dpsing and hope for the best. I usually stay away from Moonbeams because people like to clump there, thus bringing too many ice shards.
Try making your priority "moving as little as possible". Which means stand by a fire. That won't bring you the 10k dps or so you need for Hard mode, the rest relies on your luck with the Storm Power. For Hard Mode Hodir, your ranged should mostly be clumped anyways, so you only should have to move a few steps to grab the Storm Cloud if it's on someone in the ranged. Otherwise, keep dpsing and hope for the best. I usually stay away from Moonbeams because people like to clump there, thus bringing too many ice shards.
I was in on Hodir tonight for 2 tries only and both times I was fucked over cos I could not get eclipse up once after a decent amount of time. The first time I wore my usual kit 2x T8.5. The 2nd time I wore 4x T7.5 and both still resulted in mediocre dps for that fight - about 6k on average which is pathetic imo.
As for ranged clumping up, after an ice shard falls where we are and people move, the collapsing back to one spot doesn't happen.
In the end I just asked to be replaced since a RL was complaining on the dps and I had to berifly explain how RNG eclipse is.
Onto when you actually get storm cloud, do you try to proc eclipse first or just spam that starfire?
I was in on Hodir tonight for 2 tries only and both times I was fucked over cos I could not get eclipse up once after a decent amount of time. The first time I wore my usual kit 2x T8.5. The 2nd time I wore 4x T7.5 and both still resulted in mediocre dps for that fight - about 6k on average which is pathetic imo.
As for ranged clumping up, after an ice shard falls where we are and people move, the collapsing back to one spot doesn't happen.
In the end I just asked to be replaced since a RL was complaining on the dps and I had to berifly explain how RNG eclipse is.
Onto when you actually get storm cloud, do you try to proc eclipse first or just spam that starfire?
Typically, I wrath about 2-3 times in hopes of an eclipse proc, after that I just proc Solar Eclipse, since the benefit is about the same. And I definitely use a Wild Magic pot instead of the usual Haste pot.
I wear my usual gear. I do my usual rotation (next to a fire and in a moonbeam if one is nearby.) If I see the opprotunity to get a storm buff, I hop into the nearest moon beam and spam SF with no reguard to eclipse/dots. This netted me 15k on our best attempt of the night, 8k on our worst attempts. We still didn't get it though. v.v Bad pally is bad.
I wear my usual gear. I do my usual rotation (next to a fire and in a moonbeam if one is nearby.) If I see the opprotunity to get a storm buff, I hop into the nearest moon beam and spam SF with no reguard to eclipse/dots. This netted me 15k on our best attempt of the night, 8k on our worst attempts. We still didn't get it though. v.v Bad pally is bad.
We just tried this for the first time tonight and my DPS was pretty terrible. Do you have your ranged positioned in such a way that Storm Power will be given to you without you having to worry about it? Also, I see you have 2T8--you don't try to get a Lunar Eclipse buff up during Storm Power? Or do frequent interruptions simply make it not worthwhile to invest in anything that requires you to try to set up a buff in advance like that?
05/21/09, 4:03 PM
Similar Threads
