Moonkin Raiding - Page 54

Latas · 04/01/09, 3:46 AM

Originally Posted by klüger

It was painful to read your post, but two things:

a) Have you tried the lagfix thing thats floating around?
b) treants are in general worth the talent point.

Just out of curiosity which lagfix are you referring to?

klüger · 04/01/09, 4:29 AM

Originally Posted by Latas

Just out of curiosity which lagfix are you referring to?

WoW Tunnels - Reduce Lag, The Easy Way.

Or

Originally Posted by Holyshyit

Isn't the tunnelling service just doing for a cost what you can do for free with a tweak to the registry?

IE, set the following values to 1

TcpAckFrequency (HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESYSTEMCurrentControlSetServicesTcpipParametersInterfaces{NIC-id}_
TCPNoDelay (HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWAREMicrosoftMSMQParameters)

Thats just what a supersimple search yielded. I'm sure there are more tweaks.

Nrahk · 04/01/09, 6:12 AM

Originally Posted by Eilt

Yes we lost a lot of crit, but remember that not every moonkin is allowed to roll on cloth gear. Some are still living in the past where moonkins are forced to drink from the "leather" only water fountains and cling to hopes that all the other clothies get a cloth piece before they are even allowed to bid.

So the hit is very welcome to a lot of moonkins. However, trading crit for spirit is not so welcome, and lackluster 4pc t8 means we still may try and find those last few cloth pieces that do not have spirit on them for max DPS. However, the shammies did get their tier gear changed, so there could be a chance. For now it is a waiting game to see what happens before 3.1 is put on live.

I wasn't commenting so much on losing all that crit, as I was seeing that I'm losing 101 crit AND 41 haste, to be gaining 72 spell power. That doesn't really seem like an upgrade to me. Right now, I'm 1.5% over hit cap with no hit gems and using IDS and Badge trinket (not either of the hit trinkets). So the +99 hit for me is worthless.

From looking at this comparison, would it be fair to say that if I today replaced all my T7.5 gear with T8.5 gear (disregarding set bonuses, just pure stats), I would be losing DPS if all the rest of my gear stayed the same?

dukes · 04/01/09, 6:42 AM

The gain is 100 spell power assuming you go from 5/5 T7.25 to 5/5 T8.25:

Int: 53 *1.1(bok) *1.1(furor) *1.02(imp motw) *0.12(lunar guidance) = ~8 spell power
Spirit: 122 *1.1 *1.02 *0.15 (improve moonkin aura) = ~20 spell power.
Base 72 spell power increase.
72 + 8 + 20 = 100 SP.

You also shouldn't be taking this in a vacuum. As has previously been said, gaining hit when you're currently hit capped does not mean that you can ignore the hit rating, it means you can replace hit rating on other gear. Just because right now there don't seem to be many options, with Ulduar there's a huge number of items being introduced which will provide more options.

Also if you're 1.5% over the hit cap you can almost certainly get better gear (that's almost 50 hit rating going to waste).

klüger · 04/01/09, 7:42 AM

Originally Posted by dukes

The gain is 100 spell power assuming you go from 5/5 T7.25 to 5/5 T8.25:

Int: 53 *1.1(bok) *1.1(furor) *1.02(imp motw) *0.12(lunar guidance) = ~8 spell power
Spirit: 122 *1.1 *1.02 *0.15 (improve moonkin aura) = ~20 spell power.
Base 72 spell power increase.
72 + 8 + 20 = 100 SP.

You also shouldn't be taking this in a vacuum. As has previously been said, gaining hit when you're currently hit capped does not mean that you can ignore the hit rating, it means you can replace hit rating on other gear. Just because right now there don't seem to be many options, with Ulduar there's a huge number of items being introduced which will provide more options.

Also if you're 1.5% over the hit cap you can almost certainly get better gear (that's almost 50 hit rating going to waste).

Problem is, two currently BiS (Dying curse & wanton legs) give 153 hit rating as is. Then you add in some set-items around that to get the 2set bonus from t8.5 (good thing the 4set bonus is crap, so you don't have to screw yourself too much here) and while it is too early to draw strong inferences about gear, it does seem to be a lot of hit gear.

Anyways, it looks like we are saved by having a shit 4pc bonus, in that we are a lot more flexible in what gear we can fill the rest of our slots with.

Eilt · 04/01/09, 9:48 AM

Originally Posted by klüger

Problem is, two currently BiS (Dying curse & wanton legs) give 153 hit rating as is. Then you add in some set-items around that to get the 2set bonus from t8.5 (good thing the 4set bonus is crap, so you don't have to screw yourself too much here) and while it is too early to draw strong inferences about gear, it does seem to be a lot of hit gear.

Anyways, it looks like we are saved by having a shit 4pc bonus, in that we are a lot more flexible in what gear we can fill the rest of our slots with.

You appear to be operating under the assumption that Dying Curse is BiS, and it is not. If you can utilize the hit on Dying Curse it is great trinket. If you do not need hit, I believe that [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] and [Embrace of the Spider] are the best combo.

4pc t8 is pretty bad, but we do not know if we are really getting it on a 3 min CD, there is still time to prove that the DPS gain from such a long CD is too much and have it changed. But we need more people to post numbers on the forums, not simple QQ.

thedopefishlives · 04/01/09, 9:54 AM

Originally Posted by Eilt

You appear to be operating under the assumption that Dying Curse is BiS, and it is not. If you can utilize the hit on Dying Curse it is great trinket. If you do not need hit, I believe that [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] and [Embrace of the Spider] are the best combo.

4pc t8 is pretty bad, but we do not know if we are really getting it on a 3 min CD, there is still time to prove that the DPS gain from such a long CD is too much and have it changed. But we need more people to post numbers on the forums, not simple QQ.

1) Embrace is better than Dying Curse if you do not need the hit. Most T7 BiS lists have Dying Curse in it because they use hit-less 4T7 and cloth pieces.

2) 4T8 at 5% is still only a ~80 DPS increase if we ignore the supposed 3 min CD. If they want 4T8 to be worth anything, they need to boost the percentage to something more like 10%.

Moonwhisper · 04/01/09, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by pukabg

Naxx 25 =/= Sarth 3D.... and from the looks of things, many fights in Ulduar will be close to the length of Sarth 3D rather than the joke that is Naxx 25. With less crit bonus in 3.1, and the BoW/mana totem not stacking, and the innervate nerf, it might be necessary to pick up a little something extra. I know I'm often close to going OOM on sarth 3D, and sometimes do go OOM depending on the dynamics of the fight (how many raid members die, if i have to BR or heal myself real quick, etc). I would ideally like to pick up 2/3 intensity, but would 3/3 moonglow instead of IM provide that little bit I'm missing? I need to keep IFF b/c of no SP, but I guess I could give up gale winds and lose all of that aoe (but is there a lot of aoe on boss fights in Ulduar?). Just some thoughts... any input would be appreciated.

I cannot confirm general OOM situations in OS3D with 1/3 Intensity and 1/1 OOC. But it is correct, you need more mana in this fight.
You are prolly right when you say that it might happen in 3.1 the reduced crit that we need to up our mana regen.
But it is to early to give detailed advise for post-3.1. My comment was targeted on pre-3.1.

In practice it is the best to test out your personal mana regen needs.
Start with 1 TP in OOC and 1/3 in intensity and 1/3 in moonglow and you will see if this is excess or not enough. But I strongly recommend to do not put more than 1 TP in moonglow because it is the weakest mana regen talent (there was alot of discussion about mana regen talent priority and some calculations, but cant give a link...you might want to search for it in the druid section)

So if you like to UP your mana regen invest more talents points according to this priority: OOC > Intensity > dreamstate > moonglow. If you like to LOWER your mana regen start with moonglow first and so on.

Starfox · 04/01/09, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by thedopefishlives

2) 4T8 at 5% is still only a ~80 DPS increase if we ignore the supposed 3 min CD. If they want 4T8 to be worth anything, they need to boost the percentage to something more like 10%.

Just wanna note that 80dps is very (very) optimistic on your part. 4T8 is really shit right now, even after the 'buff' from 3% to 5%

It's more like like 35dps

Hoedown · 04/01/09, 3:04 PM

Hey all, have a question about consumables. Is there a formula to figure out what consumables are best for your current stats. i.e., if I'm hit capped i wouldn't need +hit food. I understand haste is used quite often. But I'm curious if spellpower food would be more effective etc.

• Hamlet · 04/01/09, 3:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hoedown

Hey all, have a question about consumables. Is there a formula to figure out what consumables are best for your current stats. i.e., if I'm hit capped i wouldn't need +hit food. I understand haste is used quite often. But I'm curious if spellpower food would be more effective etc.

Hit, otherwise spellpower.

pukabg · 04/01/09, 5:58 PM

Originally Posted by Moonwhisper

But I strongly recommend to do not put more than 1 TP in moonglow because it is the weakest mana regen talent

Yeah I'm aware of the rankings I was just wondering if anyone had tried 3/3 moonglow recently. From a TP POV it is simpler to pick up 3/3 moonglow than intensity just because it's along the way down anyway. Freeing up the points in intensity would be great because then I'd have more DPS talents to grab but I have a suspicion Moonglow isn't enough... guess I'll have to try it out this week.

Latas · 04/02/09, 4:11 AM

Originally Posted by pukabg

Yeah I'm aware of the rankings I was just wondering if anyone had tried 3/3 moonglow recently. From a TP POV it is simpler to pick up 3/3 moonglow than intensity just because it's along the way down anyway. Freeing up the points in intensity would be great because then I'd have more DPS talents to grab but I have a suspicion Moonglow isn't enough... guess I'll have to try it out this week.

Well you generally want to go down to Omen of Clarity and Master Shapeshifter anyways so its not that much of a stretch to pick up Intensity over Moonglow.

Eldessya · 04/02/09, 7:10 AM

I did some napkin math a while back and while moonglow is the weakest on a per talent point basis, improved moonfire is so abyssmally pathetic a dps talent that it came out as the best buy besides OOC ( obviously)

The ratio you need to calculate ( and like I said, the math I did wasn't conclusive, so I might be wrong), is
how much dps you lost per talent point spent vs how much regen you gain, and not how much mp5you gain per talent point. To do it right, you also need to remember that you LOSE regen if you drop crit improving talents to get pure regen talents (IIS is worth, as I recall, about 2 mp5 per point, for example)

AlinaSedai · 04/02/09, 1:09 PM

I personally do not take Gale Winds. I am just curious as to why so many people take it? How does it improve your dps vrs bosses? It doesn't. I like my spec as it is now, we always have a shadow priest in the raid so np with the hit, and we always have a feral druid so i save a GCD with the impff but i keep it anyways incase the sp dies.
The World of Warcraft Armory
I took spirit on chest over stats too. for the Mp5 bonus and the spell power bonus. 15 spirit is better then 8 stats for this reason imho.

I also see a lot of druids stacking haste. LOTS of haste. to the extent that they neglect their crit. I see druids full valor walking around.. 600 haste (no joke) and 14% crit. Do you think that 600 haste is worth such a low crit raiting?