We worked on Vesax hard mode for a couple hours last night. I used the Fusion Moonkin spec. Owlkin Frenzy never procced once in all those attempts, so it doesn't seem like an especially good expenditure of points.

Next time I'm going to try to switch those points up and take Eclipse again. I was doing sustained 10-12k dps with straight-up Starfire spam (and popping trees twice); on our next round (tonight, probably), I'll try to go ahead and proc lunar Eclipse and see if I end up doing better or worse, and how that affects my mana management (and threat management, for that matter).

There are several reasons he might be going OOM. A WWS of those fights would be very helpful for analysis. There's a shortage of hard mode logs on the WWS thread.

Another option on that fight is to spam SF normally, and use the Solar eclipse if/when you get it. Inside shadow crash a solar eclipsed wrath does about 20% less damage then SF, but it's 40% more mana efficient. It's worth considering for people who can't find other ways not to run out of mana before the animus is down.

It's easy to say proccing eclipse is worth it on Vezax, but the fact of the matter is you can use those 4-5 seconds casting Wrath to proc Eclipse and then have to move for Crash or get Marked and lose a lot of the Eclipse up time or all of it.

It's not really worth even risking losing DPM for possible DPS until the Animus spawns anyways. Not to mention Eclipse can proc on your first cast or your third or your thirteenth.

It's just more reliable to just Starfire spam. It's our highest DPM/DPS in Shadow Crash.

Using your Solar Eclipse as mentioned above sounds very viable too. However if you're running oom, you probably let some Starfires get off as the pool despawned.

A solar eclipse cycle in shadow crash would be sooooo frustrating. Wrath gets haste capped like no other in shadow crashes. It sucks. I would not wish a solar eclipse in shadow crash upon my worst enemy.

I was planning to start trying Starfire, but 2T8 Wrath when Solar Eclipse procced. It will either be that or straight Starfire spam, will have to wait and see whether DPS or mana efficiency seems more important.

Mana is more important. If a moonkin goes full out on vezax he will be oom when add spawns, with moonglow and ooc.

with 2t8 wouldn't proccing lunar be high dps + mana since you should have close to 100% crit rate almost every spell will be a free cast since it would crit.

When eclipse is on cooldown you could just not cast spells as your dps would of been so high during eclipse that it shouldn't really matter.

No Moonkin Form regen on Vezax.

having killed vezax a couple of times in both normal and heroic modes ive found the best rotation is to simply not have one
spam starfire 100% of the time, doing anything else is sadly just too mana consuming

go all out until you are about 13k mana left and start conserving and only keeping up earth and moon
after animus is down you have to resort to restraining yourself for only earth and moon uptime or call for a soulstone

I'd stick to starfire spam as well as the 4p t7 bonus (if the rest of your gear compensates for lower mana pool), wrath under a solar eclipse with t8 2p bonus isn't worth it if you consider the time spent clipping wraths could be an extra 1 or 2 starfires in a shadow crash.

FoN is worth about ~30k untalented on this fight so it's still worthwhile.
Probably want to stick iFF on it as well.

Wouldn't it be more worthwhile to have a warlock keeping CoE up seeing as it lasts 5 minutes if you don't have an unholy DK? Does E&M overwrite CoE?

Pretty sure locks use doom or agony.

Last week we tried vezax hardmode for the first time, i went for a starfire spam first couple of tries, and found myself in a big mana troubles, althought i was top damage done. I spammed starfire for an interest non stop in shadow crashes, and was on 127 mana when add spawned.

If i do think right then you should be around 35-40% mana when add spawns to put out maximum dps on him (starfire spam ignoring eclipse). It is all about finishing add asap, as melee should be able to finish off vezax after.

For Vezax before Animus im going with wrath spam, and starfire to proc eclipse only, ignoring dots but using iFF and FoN, althought keeping an eye for mana and stopping if things look bad, as add dps is most important, it is an insta wipe if you dont have enough .

Tested this out, E&M doesn't overwrite CoE. But as far as keeping the debuff up if you're having mana issues you can probably get by just hitting a starfire every so often to maintain uptime rather than having locks miss out on dps. Especially since after a few attempts you can probably gauge how your mana will look after the Animus spawns/dies.

Taken from mmo-champion:

I think this solves quite some issues, doesn't it?

Cloud

It should buff lunar eclipse. Bet they didnt want to fix the *bug* because they want both eclipses to be about the same dps, but they cant find a way to do it.

GC explicitly stated that they did not want to "fix" the "bug" because it would introduce complicated code to the Starfire spell that would only be useful for a few months, but would have to be maintained for the life of the game.

I don't think so. Instant starfires will run into the same thing wrath runs into. Its relatively easy to get to the 1sec cap on wrath and this would affect instant starfires as well. Haste still remains a decent Lunar stat, but anything above 400 has a good chance of being useless on these procs.

I don't foresee Haste becoming noticeably less valuable when 4T8 is live. Given that the proc will only be happening once every 25-30 seconds, there doesn't seem to be much basis for your assertion that it will have some large effect.

The obvious answer to this is to make this ability a talent in the next expansion, like they already have done with some previous set bonuses.

... like we don't have enough procs to watch.

Why do you have to watch this proc?

In a Lunarrotation you spam Starfire while Eclipse and Eclipse CD. While you want to proc your next Eclipse I would ignore the proc if it occurs.

The only thing i start testing next days is if its worth to keep IS up 100% of the time.

I still think not refreshing IS in the last 5-6 seconds of Eclipse is still a valid view, perhaps this could be different if you're doing a Solar Eclipse rotation.

I am curious to see some of your guys UI's and perhaps any specific addons you might use to track Eclipse, DoT's or just basic look and functionality. I'm kind of leary to start a UI thread since I have only really been super active on these boards since WotLK, prior to that I just read the Resto threads. It's an odd request since I am pretty sure the majority of us use Squawk and Awe and I thank Adorielle for that but I find i'm still curious.