Okay, so, I got the Gloves of the Frozen Glade, but the problem is, in order to fit them in, I'm gonna end up losing quite a bit of haste, enough to drop me below the 400 cap where Solar>Lunar. Is the change actually gonna be worth it? Also, is anyone else having trouble getting haste? I'm finding it increasingly hard to increase my haste to the position I want it at. Even with The Lifebinder, I'm at 475 haste, except for the lack of haste on boots, I find it hard to retrieve any extra haste without breaking 4 set.
@Moonkin Kai -- Your gearing issues does not belong in a theorycraft thread.
Either open simple questions & answers, or do the same as everyone else & use the pretty well developed tools & answer the questions yourself.
Using a keypress simulator like AutoHotKey or similar. They're not really in line with the EULA and technically you could get punished for it, but I doubt any GM would burn you for using it on a training dummy.
I have been using a Logitech G15 keyboard for about two years now, haven't been burned for it yet. Just make a macro in the software that presses your key and give it a 10 millisecond pause afterward, then set it to repeat "while pressed". I then just hold that key down and I have a macro at the 2 spot on my hotbar that casts Wrath unmodified, Starfire when I press alt, Insect Swarm when I press shift, Moonfire when I press ctrl.
Okay, so, I got the [url=http://thottbot.com/i45462]...in order to fit them in, I'm gonna end up losing quite a bit of haste, enough to drop me below the 400 cap where Solar>Lunar. ...is anyone else having trouble getting haste?...
400 haste is NOT the point when Lunar becomes better than Solar. Its not that clear-cut at all! Nor is it true that haste is worth nothing over 400, for either lunar OR SOLAR. 401 haste just marks the point when GCD clipping beings to occur, and the incremental value of haste begins to decrease. I'm not making any claims regarding solar vs. lunar, just making a clarification.
I've recorded the 4T8 proc in case someone wants to see how the GCD works in action. It basically operates the same way as an instant and is queueable while you're casting your current spell.
Watching the video (thanks for it) it seems you cast two SF at the same time (when the istant one procs, and the "on cast" one lands), and the istant one doesn't trigger a new GCD but uses the one from first SF.
So, 2 SF but 1 GCD, right? Or no?
I've read about "istant cast then no GCD"... what? O_o Moonfire is an istant spell but it triggers a GCD. When i cast it, I've to wait 1 sec to cast another spell.
Why the "instant SF" doesn't trig another GCD? Is it normal? I don't have this part clear on my mind.
...No. The GCD begins when you begin casting the spell. Thus a 2+ second cast Starfire will trigger the 1+ second GCD when you start to cast it and it will be over before the spell cast finishes. Thus the first Starfire's GCD elapses during its cast. This is what allows you to cast the instant cast Starfire immediately as the first Starfire lands. The GCD you see after the instant cast Starfire is the GCD for the instant cast Starfire. It starts immediately as you cast it, but there is no cast time, so you actually notice it. It's not hard to understand and works no differently from casting Starfire and then Moonfire immediately after.
So you have to wait the usual 1s GCD after you've casted the instant SF, right (of course the GCD starts at press of instant SF)?
Watching the video, since the scrolling combat text shown 2 SF in 1 line, i've tought about an automatic cast without GCD. But maybe it was the caster that was really fast at pressing the instant SF after the casted one, so now it is all clear.
Anyone using AHK/G15 type scripts will generate the (2 hits) message. We have already been over this pretty much this whole page. Let's get over it.
I've been refreshing IS in Eclipse now at 3.7+ seconds left trying to get the most out of this proc, I haven't had time for any math and would enjoy it if one of the better theorycrafters could see how this affects IS up-time.
Also i'm noticing pretty infrequent ppm qualities of the 4pc. Thorim hard mode being a relative long fight once you trigger the boss.
103 IS ticks (93% up-time), 10 procs. 1.6 ppm for the boss only.
I'm seeing much lower on most fights in some cases dipping as low as 1ppm. My IS up-time is typically very high 90's and I guess I expected much more from this bonus. Hopefully when we work on Yogg w/o Keepers it'll shine a bit better being able to have a bunch of IS running at once.
But is isn't PPM, it's 8% per tick. Measuring it in PPM without 100% uptime is meaningless. 10/103 = 9.7% of your ticks procced it, which is above average.
Also, it's not just anyone using AHK/G15, it's anyone queuing the instant cast Starfire at the end of the first one, so pretty much everyone.
Tried out eclipse tonight on Vezax tonight, ran with 2x t8.5 and 2x t7.5. Dropped as much haste as possible in favour of crit. Think I ended up withabout 315 haste and about 29% crit self buffed in mookin.
I can see the benefits of eclipse but it's RNG again, sometimes I had eclipse up and had to move and lost most of the buff, other times I had eclipse up and was able to dps entire duration. Tomorrow I might try without using eclipse and see how my dps is overall when the Animus spawns.
Posted WWS and WMO in the thread if anyone wants to look. Wiped a few times due to silly things, should have the encounter down pretty soon
Tried out eclipse tonight on Vezax tonight, ran with 2x t8.5 and 2x t7.5. Dropped as much haste as possible in favour of crit. Think I ended up withabout 315 haste and about 29% crit self buffed in mookin.
I can see the benefits of eclipse but it's RNG again, sometimes I had eclipse up and had to move and lost most of the buff, other times I had eclipse up and was able to dps entire duration. Tomorrow I might try without using eclipse and see how my dps is overall when the Animus spawns.
Posted WWS and WMO in the thread if anyone wants to look. Wiped a few times due to silly things, should have the encounter down pretty soon
Dam I'm only running about 31% crit with the 4pc t7.5 bonus, dunno how you get so much more then me > <.
I also posted my wss report where I was proccing eclipse every time I could, i definatly see it being worth proccing ecilpse however u have to time it correctly. for example if the cooldown was up I would wait until a shadow crash was just about to happen to try proc it more often then not if it procs just as you have to move for the shadow crash you still get about 10 casts of eclipse. while if you try proc it after a shadow crash you lose more time due to the next shadow crash happening and therefore interrupting your eclipse time.
edit: also if you run the two ranged groups strat and you get lucky with the shadow crash going to the other group you get a full 15 second eclipse.
Dam I'm only running about 31% crit with the 4pc t7.5 bonus, dunno how you get so much more then me > <.
I also posted my wss report where I was proccing eclipse every time I could, i definatly see it being worth proccing ecilpse however u have to time it correctly. for example if the cooldown was up I would wait until a shadow crash was just about to happen to try proc it more often then not if it procs just as you have to move for the shadow crash you still get about 10 casts of eclipse. while if you try proc it after a shadow crash you lose more time due to the next shadow crash happening and therefore interrupting your eclipse time.
edit: also if you run the two ranged groups strat and you get lucky with the shadow crash going to the other group you get a full 15 second eclipse.
Should be logged on armory in my Vezax gear It's morel ike 28.7x% but rounding up ftw.
Yea we do the 2 groups on 1 crash stat so I can usually dps the entire duration but just often times it was safer to move in the other direction out of the crash.
Only problem is I found my mana suffering alot usually at around 8k before the animus was going to spawn so I had to just stand there keeping dots up only pretty much. Anyone that's done the HM were you conservative with the mana till the point of animus spawning or would around 8-10k be enough?
Fair number of fights where it seems easy to keep multiple IS up for extra ppm. Especially with movement these extra ppm seem quite valuable. I'd venture to say the majority of fights have some point where you can exploit multiple IS.
On a sidenote for the double starfire: when used during an eclipse, people in BGs dont seem to care much whether there is a 1s GCD after it or not. Quite amusing to KO someone from full with it, pity it cannot be relied on and moonkin form in pvp is the equivalent to a pulsing Aoe taunt.
My english is not realy good, sorry... I did some maths using this :
Hit rating: 2.0
Spellpower: 1.3
Haste rating: 1.2
Crit rating: 0.8
Intellect: 0.5
Spirit: 0.4
And : 1,5 sec average cast time, 30% crit rate, 2000 SP
i had a break for a while so here is my question
my druid is tier 7,5 with around 5-5,5 dps
armory ( The World of Warcraft Armory )
my rotation was iff is mf wrath until eclipse and spam sf when eclipse is on... never redot when eclipse was on and using trees typhoon starfall when possible!
is this still the best or i have missed something ?
still haste > crit ?
I have a question on [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] => Proc : lasts 15 sec, 45 sec CD, 35% proc chance : one proc every 49 sec, 30% uptime.
This seems a pretty good trinket to me, it would appear you get an additional +90 int as a base stat, then for 15 seconds every minute you get another 300int (assuming int is your highest stat). Not sure on the maths but in practice when I use this in a boss fight I don't seem to run out of mana.
I have a question on [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] => Proc : lasts 15 sec, 45 sec CD, 35% proc chance : one proc every 49 sec, 30% uptime.
This seems a pretty good trinket to me, it would appear you get an additional +90 int as a base stat, then for 15 seconds every minute you get another 300int (assuming int is your highest stat). Not sure on the maths but in practice when I use this in a boss fight I don't seem to run out of mana.
Views,comments?
You get +90 int from the proc and +90 as base stat : so, you get +180 int by this trinket.
With Furor, BoK and imp MotW, you get 220 int.
Regen :
+2220 mana : means +44 MP by a crit in moonkin form
+26,4 mp5 if you have Dreamstate
Dps :
+26,4 SP by Lunar guidance
+60,6 crit rate (1,32% crit)
I have a question on [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] => Proc : lasts 15 sec, 45 sec CD, 35% proc chance : one proc every 49 sec, 30% uptime.
This seems a pretty good trinket to me, it would appear you get an additional +90 int as a base stat, then for 15 seconds every minute you get another 300int (assuming int is your highest stat). Not sure on the maths but in practice when I use this in a boss fight I don't seem to run out of mana.
Views,comments?
The issue is simply that even without that trinket most people are not running oom. So in terms of DPS the trinket is valued extremely low. If you already have the mana regen talents and still need a regen trinket you may be under geared for the content or need to work on your rotation.
The problem is that you are just using the relative stat values from the Moonkin beginner's guide, which are not necessarily (probably not) accurate for any particular person's gearset. Haste is overvalued, and so is hit on a trinket (since there is an overabundance of hit elsewhere, you really don't want to use a hit trinket if you have the other gear).
With my current gear, using a Lunar rotation, Rawr has haste at .88, crit at .89 and SP at 1.18. And even while this may be atypical because I have a relatively low crit rating (392?), so for most people haste will be better than crit, haste just isn't going to scale that well compared to SP with any reasonable level of gear.
The problem is that you are just using the relative stat values from the Moonkin beginner's guide, which are not necessarily (probably not) accurate for any particular person's gearset. Haste is overvalued, and so is hit on a trinket (since there is an overabundance of hit elsewhere, you really don't want to use a hit trinket if you have the other gear).
With my current gear, using a Lunar rotation, Rawr has haste at .88, crit at .89 and SP at 1.18. And even while this may be atypical because I have a relatively low crit rating (392?), so for most people haste will be better than crit, haste just isn't going to scale that well compared to SP with any reasonable level of gear.
That large a swing in the value of haste isn't going to be accomplished by shifting a few stat points around. People always overestimate this effect--things are usually roughly linear within a certain narrow range, like one tier of gear. The values on the beginner thread are pretty close for my current gear, with over 600 haste. It scales quite well.
The difference between your Rawr and my WC is just different assumptions about GCD clipping. You're valuing haste less because you're assuming that haste has no marginal effect on Wrath or instants. I'm pretty skeptical of that, even close to the GCD (this when someone makes the "a .01 faster cast only matters if you have a .01 reaction time" argument).
That large a swing in the value of haste isn't going to be accomplished by shifting a few stat points around. People always overestimate this effect--things are usually roughly linear within a certain narrow range, like one tier of gear. The values on the beginner thread are pretty close for my current gear, with over 600 haste. It scales quite well.
The difference between your Rawr and my WC is just different assumptions about GCD clipping. You're valuing haste less because you're assuming that haste has no marginal effect on Wrath or instants. I'm pretty skeptical of that, even close to the GCD (this when someone makes the "a .01 faster cast only matters if you have a .01 reaction time" argument).
Messing around with WrathCalcs it seems like latency and reaction time play a very large part in the value of haste. Specifically, if your latency is lower than the GCD, it spikes a lot. This makes me wonder how much value you lose during NG procs, and how it is modeled in WC.
Messing around with WrathCalcs it seems like latency and reaction time play a very large part in the value of haste. Specifically, if your latency is lower than the GCD, it spikes a lot. This makes me wonder how much value you lose during NG procs, and how it is modeled in WC.
If your latency is higher than the GCD, you have more important issues than the value of Haste.
If your latency is higher than the GCD, you have more important issues than the value of Haste.
The default value is 200ms. With NG the GCD goes down to 1 second. What I meant was the GCD-1 sec, not the full GCD, I apologize. Now that I think about that again, it doesn't really make that much sense to me straight away. Nonetheless, that is the relationship I am seeing.
Edit: presumably because you cannot queue spells until after 1 sec of the GCD.
The issue is simply that even without that trinket most people are not running oom. So in terms of DPS the trinket is valued extremely low. If you already have the mana regen talents and still need a regen trinket you may be under geared for the content or need to work on your rotation.
Hmmm.. maybe it is just the people I'm running with, low level guild, PUG's - my gear is decent enough I think - The World of Warcraft Armory. Please don't have a go at the head, it is temporary until a better one drops with a meta, but the meta I have is 300dps less (tried and tested).
I'm confident of my spell rotation (IFF, IS, MF, Wrath until eclipse, MF... rinse repeat keeping DOT's up - sending other instant casts as and when). But in boss fights I seem to run low, however have upgraded alot of gear recently so maybe should look at running without the trink for awhile and see how I go.
06/04/09, 7:58 AM
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