Moonkin Raiding - Page 67

Atheril92 · 06/24/09, 4:24 PM

Testing set out now

-50% proc chance on relic (possibly higher)
--Procs so much it's annoying. It's the same animation as the finishing of a healing spell
--Might be bugged? Seems stupidly high proc
-Moonfire crits are 200%
--Do not proc NG
--Do not regen mana from Moonkin Form

The 'new' Eclipse isn't currently implemented

Kaug · 06/24/09, 4:39 PM

Originally Posted by Atheril92

Testing set out now

-50% proc chance on relic (possibly higher)
-Moonfire crits are 200%, no NG proc

The 'new' Eclipse isn't currently implemented

Seems odd that they would not trigger NG.
Anyone know if the MF dot Crits will return mana? Image the BG MF spam that would go on

Atheril92 · 06/24/09, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kaug

Seems odd that they would not trigger NG.
Anyone know if the MF dot Crits will return mana? Image the BG MF spam that would go on

Nope D:

• Arawethion · 06/24/09, 4:57 PM

Here's a quick update with the new stuff. 2T9 and 4T9 as listed. Idol lazily implemented as a constant 200 crit; if the proc rate's really that high it blows away all previous Idols. 2T9 raises the value of crit compared to haste, raises the value of Glyphs of SF/MF (irrelevant unless more DPS Glyphs appear), and raises the value of ImpMF to make it quite worthwhile.

Dráconus · 06/24/09, 5:22 PM

On a sidenote: 2pc T8 is going to be putting is rather close to the crit cap during a lunar eclipse while 4pc T9 is.....annoying.....with both eclipses used.'

I do hope some of these are placeholder values and real upgrades are given.

Altiris · 06/24/09, 5:32 PM

50% proc chance per tick sounds like close to 100% uptime if you ask me...

◊ Lord BEEF · 06/24/09, 5:34 PM

Improved moonfire should effect the periodic crits that you get with 2pc T9 but I would still recommend testing it, just in case it was coded such that the crit portion of the talent only effects the initial cast

The Inevitable · 06/24/09, 5:35 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Make sure you're thinking through what you're doing before you spend a lot of time tinkering with the spreadsheet. I'd assumed you were talking about Vezax hardmode if you were going to all the trouble to think about this fight. If, as you say, you're trying maximize the total damage out of your mana bar, then all that matters is DPM. Cast time, clipping, and any other timing issues are irrelevant. It doesn't matter that Solar "lasts longer"; you can make anything last longer by standing around doing nothing for a bit. It's completely obvious, for example, that you wouldn't cast Moonfire (except on Clearcasts), you don't need to model the rotation to find this out.

Except that the results are different than the expectations; I posted the modified version of the spreadsheet because there seems to be a lot of misinformation going around (I was surprised myself, so I thought I'd share rather than keep it to myself). Moonfire inside of Shadow Crash is 84.63 DPM, which is 55% less mana efficient than the 153.55 DPM of just Starfire. Your expectations believe that because its so mana inefficient, it shouldn't be cast at all or only during an OoC proc, but, the fact is, despite the inefficiencies of the spell, it actually increases the DPM and damage done of the rotation and should be cast regardless of an OoC proc. My original attempts with a calculator made me want to get a better and more concise answer, and it was these inconsistencies of what is expected or should be obvious that made me seek the truth for myself. In the end, DPM of the spell didn't really matter and the DPM of the rotations on the original and the modified spreadsheets showed the same ranking by DPM, but just knowing that much wouldn't have satisfied me.

The only nontrivial issue is Solar vs. Lunar. Eclipsed Starfires give significantly better DPM than Eclipsed Wraths, but uneclipsed Starfires also have better DPM than uneclipsed Wraths. But the issue is the frequent interruption to dodge crashes making the very swingy Lunar rotation impractical. Interruptions due to movement can detract from Eclipse time but not from pre-Eclipse time (this is an irritation with our class on every fight, actually), so frequent movement works heavily against a rotation that requires you to invest in a full Eclipse to get a minor overall benefit.

During Animus, where you might want to trade a bit of efficiency for DPS, I'm not sure anything changes--Solar is more consistent that Lunar in terms of both DPS and DPM. Also, your guild will certainly have Bloodlust up, during which you'd want to just spam Starfire.

I agree that proccing Solar is more consistent (and, actually, I prefer Solar to Lunar), but, once either is procced, its probably likely you won't get a full Eclipse cycle out of either due to moving for Shadow Crash. Even with my meager amount of haste (269 rating), my NG-assisted Starfires clip the GCD just like Wrath which likely means the number of Starfires or Wraths that can or will be casted within Eclipse will be about the same. Bloodlust/Heroism will make almost no difference to us, so the normal best rotation would still apply even during Bloodlust/Heroism. (I didn't notice until now that Starfire was getting GCD clipped as well until I tried changing the "Total haste" field again and saw Starfire's cast time not change due to the 1sec+Latency+Reaction Time calculations).

I'm still going to modify the more recent spreadsheet to at least verify the results I got from the 090519 version; once I'm done, I'll make it available to download (it could be even that all of my reults will change with the new version! ; ). Oh, and my apologies if I misunderstood what you were trying to say; I'm not entirely clear on the point you were trying to make with Lunar vs. Solar, so I tried to respond as best I could.

Starfox · 06/24/09, 5:49 PM

Originally Posted by Kiniaa

On a side note i really do hope that 2t9 bonus will compete with 4t8

You'll be suprised:
SimulationCraft run with 3.2.0 mechanics, optimal_raid=1

Druid_T8	2T8 + 4T8
Druid_T8_T9	2T8 + 2T9

druid=Druid_T8
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0xRbuiIsfdIVhouZbxczb
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=fish_feast/mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/mana_potion
actions+=/innervate,trigger=19000
actions+=/treants
actions+=/starfall,skip_on_eclipse=1
actions+=/moonfire,eclipse_left>=12,skip_on_eclipse=-1
actions+=/insect_swarm,eclipse_left>=12,skip_on_eclipse=-1
actions+=/starfire,instant=1,extendmf=1
actions+=/wrath,eclipse=benefit
actions+=/starfire,instant=1
actions+=/wrath,eclipse=trigger
actions+=/use_item,name=scale_of_fates
actions+=/starfire,eclipse=benefit
actions+=/starfire,eclipse=trigger

# Standard Gear Attributes http://www.chardev.org/?template=176626
gear_stamina=958
gear_intellect=1005
gear_spirit=464
gear_spell_power=2361
gear_hit_rating=261
gear_crit_rating=614
gear_haste_rating=349

tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1

# Meta Gem
meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare

# Item Procs
items=flare_of_the_heavens/scale_of_fates

# Glyphs
glyphs=moonfire/starfire/insect_swarm

# Relic
idol=idol_of_the_shooting_star

Druid_T8_T9 just got the tier bonus changed, the actions with instant=1 will be ignores because he'll never get the proc anyways

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.2.0 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
  14113 100.0%  Raid
   7131  50.5%  Druid_T8_T9
   6996  49.5%  Druid_T8

Player=Druid_T8 (balance)  DPS=6995.7 (Error=+/-3.8 Range=+/-752)  DPR=22.9  RS=305.1/300.7  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=94  agility=77  stamina=1058  intellect=1257  spirit=625  health=14000  mana=22076
  Spell Stats:  power=2699  hit=13.95%  crit=22.76%  penetration=0  haste=10.64%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=-362  hit=7.96%  crit=21.77%  expertise=0.00  penetration=0.00%  haste=13.84%
  Defense Stats:  armor=154
  Glyphs: moonfire/starfire/insect_swarm
  Actions:
    insect_swarm          Count= 15.9|19.1sec  DPE=  9315| 7%  DPET=  7872  DPR=  35.2  pDPS= 495  Miss=0.1%  TickCount=109  Tick=1364
    moonfire              Count=  9.7|32.2sec  DPE= 11494| 5%  DPET=  9504  DPR=  16.9  pDPS= 371  Miss=0.1%  Hit= 334  Crit=  699|  775|50.3%  TickCount=72  Tick=1467
    starfall              Count=  3.8|96.0sec  DPE= 12798| 2%  DPET= 10275  DPR=   9.8  pDPS= 163  Miss=0.1%  TickCount=73  Tick=449  CritTick=941|1648|44.2%
    starfire              Count= 73.0| 3.9sec  DPE= 12724|44%  DPET=  6601  DPR=  24.9  pDPS=3098  Miss=0.1%  Hit=6890  Crit=14421|16726|77.5%
    wrath                 Count=106.8| 2.7sec  DPE=  7345|37%  DPET=  6484  DPR=  20.9  pDPS=2618  Miss=0.0%  Hit=4954  Crit=10353|13444|44.3%
   treants  (DPS=355.8)
    treant_melee          Count= 42.0| 1.5sec  DPE=  1785| 4%  DPET=  1226  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 250  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1866  Crit= 3733| 3946|8.2%  Glance=1400|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Player=Druid_T8_T9 (balance)  DPS=7131.1 (Error=+/-3.8 Range=+/-803)  DPR=23.6  RS=301.9/297.8  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=94  agility=77  stamina=1058  intellect=1257  spirit=625  health=14000  mana=22076
  Spell Stats:  power=2699  hit=13.95%  crit=22.76%  penetration=0  haste=10.64%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=-362  hit=7.96%  crit=21.77%  expertise=0.00  penetration=0.00%  haste=13.84%
  Defense Stats:  armor=154
  Glyphs: moonfire/starfire/insect_swarm
  Actions:
    insect_swarm          Count= 15.9|19.1sec  DPE=  9315| 7%  DPET=  7877  DPR=  35.2  pDPS= 495  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=109  Tick=1363
    moonfire              Count=  9.8|31.9sec  DPE= 17398| 8%  DPET= 14393  DPR=  25.6  pDPS= 566  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 334  Crit=  699|  775|50.2%  TickCount=72  Tick=1467  CritTick=3067|3497|50.4%
    starfall              Count=  3.8|96.0sec  DPE= 12791| 2%  DPET= 10274  DPR=   9.8  pDPS= 163  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=73  Tick=450  CritTick=938|1648|44.3%
    starfire              Count= 68.7| 4.2sec  DPE= 12885|41%  DPET=  6471  DPR=  25.2  pDPS=2954  Miss=0.1%  Hit=6880  Crit=14421|16726|79.7%
    wrath                 Count=110.2| 2.6sec  DPE=  7352|38%  DPET=  6492  DPR=  20.9  pDPS=2703  Miss=0.0%  Hit=4959  Crit=10363|13444|44.3%
   treants  (DPS=355.7)
    treant_melee          Count= 42.0| 1.5sec  DPE=  1785| 4%  DPET=  1226  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 250  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1866  Crit= 3731| 3946|8.2%  Glance=1399|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Gains:

    Druid_T8:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5530.1  (overflow=15.4%)
        initial_mana=25994.3
        judgement_of_wisdom=6865.0  (overflow=1.5%)
        mana_potion=1124.6
        moonkin_form=54253.7  (overflow=4.1%)
        mp5_regen=5654.0  (overflow=11.2%)
        omen_of_clarity=5393.4
        replenishment=16669.9  (overflow=14.3%)
        spirit_intellect_regen=16.7  (overflow=50.1%)

    Druid_T8_T9:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5469.9  (overflow=16.3%)
        initial_mana=25994.3
        judgement_of_wisdom=6821.7  (overflow=1.5%)
        mana_potion=860.9
        moonkin_form=53953.6  (overflow=4.3%)
        mp5_regen=5608.3  (overflow=11.9%)
        omen_of_clarity=5342.2
        replenishment=16500.6  (overflow=15.2%)
        spirit_intellect_regen=16.8  (overflow=52.2%)

Procs:

    Druid_T8:
        flare_of_the_heavens=5.7|52.19sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=99.7|3.01sec
        omen_of_clarity=12.0|25.01sec
        scale_of_fates=3.0|100.16sec
        tier8_4pc=8.6|34.66sec

    Druid_T8_T9:
        flare_of_the_heavens=5.7|52.13sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=99.1|3.02sec
        omen_of_clarity=11.9|25.09sec
        scale_of_fates=3.0|99.97sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy                  
        100.0% : improved_scorch               
        100.0% : improved_shadow_bolt          
        100.0% : master_poisoner               
        100.0% : savage_combat                 
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath                
        100.0% : winters_chill                 

    Druid_T8:
         68.2% : eclipse_starfire              
         66.4% : eclipse_wrath                 
         85.2% : natures_grace                 
        100.0% : replenishment                 

    Druid_T8_T9:
         72.7% : eclipse_starfire              
         66.7% : eclipse_wrath                 
         85.4% : natures_grace                 
        100.0% : replenishment                 

Waiting:
     0.0% : Druid_T8
     0.0% : Druid_T8_T9

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 34145455
  MaxEventQueue = 28
  TargetHealth  = 4229142
  SimSeconds    = 2999389
  CpuSeconds    = 36.563
  SpeedUp       = 82033

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=0.999815 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000032

The problem is 2T8, when you get into solar eclipse you should skip the instant-sf, because a wrath will actually deal more damage. Also you could say to use the proc under solar if it would extend your moonfire, but to get into solar you had to cast starfire, it was ~10dps gain in my simulations.
Current 4T9 seems to be a placeholder, wonder what they come up with, now that with 3.2.0 the 2T8 bonus becomes just uber-awesome

• Arawethion · 06/24/09, 5:53 PM

Originally Posted by Starfox

The problem is 2T8, when you get into solar eclipse you should skip the instant-sf, because a wrath will actually deal more damage.

An instant SF is better DPET than an Eclipsed Wrath.

Brewdinar · 06/24/09, 6:34 PM

Are there any thoughts on spell twisting SF/W when we're not under either Eclipse ICD? Granted that it's a circumstance that only occurs once at the very beginning of each fight, and perhaps after extended movement, but as such a simple change, if it can make even a small dps improvement, it'd be nice to know.

I haven't the knack for modeling it myself, but it seems like an extra GCD casting the correct Eclipsed spell, stacked against the possibility of getting whichever Eclipse proc you don't like once more than the other, if the fight duration and RNG end up that way. I suppose there might be additional benefit in that even a braindead player will be guaranteed to pop their 4T8 procs quickly when twisting, and to extend the initial MF at least once.

Dráconus · 06/24/09, 6:36 PM

Instant starfires during a solar eclipse may also provide the 2nd or 3rd starfire for your starfire glyph.

Starfox · 06/26/09, 2:12 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

An instant SF is better DPET than an Eclipsed Wrath.

Now that you point it out >:C

But 3.2.0 is giving me headaches with BiS gear list for SimulationCraft, as you don't only have to get near 263, but with the change to eclipse you get a new value to watch out where your one scale factors suddenly loses its value: 400 haste.
That's when you reach 1.0-gcd with NG, CF and 5% ToW.
I had one profile, hitcap, 373haste etc. and as plenty of new hardmode items are out, I started bothering about a profile update. So I did a scale factor run in SC and got:

gear_crit_rating=568
gear_haste_rating=373
Druid_4T8  0.61  Spi=0.50  SP=1.51  Hit=3.03  Crit=1.19  Haste=0.26  Lag=0.00

Pretty abysmal results for haste, so I went on with the lootrank link and updated a few parts:

gear_crit_rating=767
gear_haste_rating=216
Druid_4T8  0.59  Spi=0.50  SP=1.51  Hit=2.95  Crit=1.09  Haste=1.72  Lag=0.00

Aye caramba

Whispah · 06/26/09, 12:05 PM

Seing your calculations on crit / haste rating makes me wonder, will it be worth to actually gem spellp/crit instead of pure spellp? if you have hitcap ofc.

Been pondering about it since the release of t8 information. Since you'll procc eclipse faster (both next patch) and also get some more crit for the solar elcipse to get those nice crit streaks in.

Poromu · 06/26/09, 1:06 PM

That basically boils down to stat values and socket bonuses. Pt for pt spell power will almost always outweigh haste or crit, however if you're getting a 7-9 spell power bonus from the sockets then yes it'll be worth using a spell power and haste or crit gem depending where you're at.

I'm still under the impression that haste will still outweigh crit until you reach the 400 haste mark.

Whispah · 06/26/09, 1:13 PM

barely lost any dps at all when i started gearing for crit pre ulduar patch, since i got my eclipse faster and more often and also critted more SF's during and after the eclpise duration.

even when gearing for crit id guess that you'll recieve enough haste to get the soft cap without even trying :P

• Arawethion · 06/26/09, 1:23 PM

I'm still highly skeptical of those marginal stat values. We should probably have a deeper discussion of the SimCraft vs. WrathCalcs models to figure out what's going on here at some point. But I'm note even sure that the low value for haste above passes basic sanity checks--haste would be worth more than that based only on the improvement it gives to Starfire spam.

dedmonwakeen · 06/26/09, 3:18 PM

Originally Posted by Starfox

Now that you point it out >:C

But 3.2.0 is giving me headaches with BiS gear list for SimulationCraft, as you don't only have to get near 263, but with the change to eclipse you get a new value to watch out where your one scale factors suddenly loses its value: 400 haste.
That's when you reach 1.0-gcd with NG, CF and 5% ToW.

Starfox, you might be getting bit by huge default deltas used when calculating scale factors. I know it turns your stomach, but consider using smooth_scale_factors=1 so that you can use the smaller scale deltas. When "caps" are involved, we need to be very careful how we perform our scale factor generation.

conghaile · 06/26/09, 4:10 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

I'm still highly skeptical of those marginal stat values. We should probably have a deeper discussion of the SimCraft vs. WrathCalcs models to figure out what's going on here at some point. But I'm note even sure that the low value for haste above passes basic sanity checks--haste would be worth more than that based only on the improvement it gives to Starfire spam.

My initial gut instinct made me think I should gear to 400 haste, and then take crit instead to maximize damage in patch 3.2. Doing a quick test on WrathCalcs v3.1.3 gave me self-confirmation, although my math is far from absolute. I looked at the effect 10 haste rating and 10 crit rating has on overall dps.

I assumed 100% eclipse uptime so the increase in DPS on wrath is weighted equivalent to the increase in dps on Starfire. I assumed also 100% NG uptime since it's close to 100% for wrath at any point and near 100% on lunar eclipse. My final assumption was that no idol is equipped, as to save me a couple of test cases at this stage.

My baseline inputs are as follows (I can't seem to attach a file):
Talents: Full points in IIS, IFF, Moonfury, Wrath of Cenarius, EaM, Vengeance, Master Shapeshifter, ImpMoonkin.
Spellpower: 2300
Spell Crit: 364
Spell Hit: 257
Spell Haste: 400
Spirit: 350
Int: 900
Reaction Time: 0.2
Latency: 0.2
T8 2-piece bonus: TRUE
T8 4-piece bonus: TRUE
Chaotic Diamond: TRUE
Blessing of Kings: 10%
MP5: 109 MP5
Spirit: Fel Intelligence
Intellect: Arcane Intellect
Mark of the Wild: 52
Heroic Presence: None
Food: 46 Spellpower
Battle Elixir: Frost Wyrm(F)
Major: Insect Swarm
Major: Moonfire
Major: Starfire
Spell Haste: Wrath of Air
Spell Crit Chance: Moonkin Aura
Spell Crit Debuff: Winter's Chill
Spell Damage Debuff: Earth and Moon
Spell Hit Debuff: Improved FF
All Haste: Improved Moonkin
All Crit Debuff: Totem of Wrath
Replenishment Uptime: 100.00%
Judgement of Wisdom Uptime: 100.00%

Increasing crit rating by 10 ups the eclipse/IS damage of Wrath (Sheet "Wrath Calcs," Grid H-13) from 7143.6 to 7255.8 with a casttime of 1.000 seconds (assumed) and starfire's eclipse/MF average damage (Sheet "Starfire Calcs, Grid C22) from 12083.2 to 12098.2 with a casttime (Sheet "Starfire Calcs" Grid F6) of 2.200 seconds. This equates to a 12.2 dps increase over the solar eclipse and a 6.8 dps increase during lunar eclipse.

Increasing haste rating by 10 changed the casttime of Starfire from 2.200 to 2.195 seconds. This does not affect solar eclipse in any way, but increases starfire dps from 5492.3 dps to 5504.8 dps during lunar eclipse.

So averaging the two phases out, increasing by 10 crit rating increases overall dps by 9.5 dps, while increasing by 10 haste rating increases overall dps by 6.2 dps. That doesn't look like crit outvaluing haste by a ~5:1 ratio as SimCraft is spitting out, but it is still outvaluing it. The biggest caveat to my results I see is the effect of NG uptime on Wrath, given that it varies wildly in game, and is affected more by latency. These effects start to dampen however as crit rating goes up. I'd be also interested in gauging the effects of the SF and Wrath idols, but I need to get back to work.

GKRBER · 06/26/09, 5:25 PM

I need some help. Below is my armory link, please let me know what I am doing wrong. I cannot seem to get past 3400 dps in 25m Ulduar Raids. I use the standard rotation (IS,MF,IFF,W,EC, SF, Re-Dot, SF) etc. I am beginning to think it's my gear or rather incorrectly gemmed. I would also like to know, after a balance druid is hit capped, what would you consider more important - SP, Crit or Haste.

Thank you!

The World of Warcraft Armory

• Arawethion · 06/26/09, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by GKRBER

I need some help.

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t59457-m...dated_3_1_3_a/

e: also, http://elitistjerks.com/f73/a45-here...p_me_not_suck/

dedmonwakeen · 06/26/09, 5:47 PM

Scale factor generation via simulation is a painful endeavor. Sure.... It is easy to do (run twice and dDPS/dGear), but it is difficult to do WELL.

In this particular case, the large haste values were pushing Wrath below the GCD. Since SimulationCraft uses different lag values for different scenarios (spell queue, channel, gcd) we were crossing over from "queued lag" to "gcd lag". While this may still be the correct model, it plays havoc with scaling analysis.

When performing scale factor generation we apply a number of methods to reduce unnecessary variation: Allow degradation in accuracy of "absolute" dps values if we can improve accuracy of "relative" dps values. These methods are not present when we vomit out the reams of data. They are only present when calculating the dDPS.

Long story short: We now only use gcd lag for instant casts when performing scale factor generation.

EDIT: Deleted the raw data..... I'm still not happy with the result.

First line is "smooth" scale factors. Second line is "standard" scale factors. Sigh. I need to re-run with large iterations and see if "standard" Haste values are just simulation variance raising its ugly head or if the "smooth" processing has bugs I need to chase down....

Druid_T8_58_00_13_PTR      Int=0.46  Spi=0.50  SP=1.52  Hit=3.15  Crit=0.94  Haste=1.15   (smooth, 1k iterations)
Druid_T8_58_00_13_PTR      Int=0.58  Spi=0.49  SP=1.52  Hit=2.96  Crit=1.11  Haste=0.62   (standard, 10k iterations)
Druid_T8_58_00_13_PTR      Int=0.59  Spi=0.50  SP=1.53  Hit=2.96  Crit=1.12  Haste=0.63   (standard, 100k iterations)

EDIT2: Looks like I have to investigate the "smooth_rng" scaling issues. Bummer.

EDIT3: Well... I'm standing by the "smooth" values. When smooth_scale_factors=0, we use a whopping 250 delta haste rating in order to minimize variance. I believe this pushes us into the haste soft-cap, making the dDPS/dGear formula erroneous. When smooth_scale_factors=1 we reduce variance in alternate ways, enabling a delta of only 100 haste rating which is less prone to soft-cap issues.

Starfox · 06/26/09, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

Scale factor generation via simulation is a painful endeavor. Sure.... It is easy to do (run twice and dDPS/dGear), but it is difficult to do WELL.

In this particular case, the large haste values were pushing Wrath below the GCD. Since SimulationCraft uses different lag values for different scenarios (spell queue, channel, gcd) we were crossing over from "queued lag" to "gcd lag". While this may still be the correct model, it plays havoc with scaling analysis.

When performing scale factor generation we apply a number of methods to reduce unnecessary variation: Allow degradation in accuracy of "absolute" dps values if we can improve accuracy of "relative" dps values. These methods are not present when we vomit out the reams of data. They are only present when calculating the dDPS.

Long story short: We now only use gcd lag for instant casts when performing scale factor generation.

EDIT: Deleted the raw data..... I'm still not happy with the result.

First line is "smooth" scale factors. Second line is "standard" scale factors. Sigh. I need to re-run with large iterations and see if "standard" Haste values are just simulation variance raising its ugly head or if the "smooth" processing has bugs I need to chase down....

Druid_T8_58_00_13_PTR      Int=0.46  Spi=0.50  SP=1.52  Hit=3.15  Crit=0.94  Haste=1.15   (smooth, 1k iterations)
Druid_T8_58_00_13_PTR      Int=0.58  Spi=0.49  SP=1.52  Hit=2.96  Crit=1.11  Haste=0.62   (standard, 10k iterations)
Druid_T8_58_00_13_PTR      Int=0.59  Spi=0.50  SP=1.53  Hit=2.96  Crit=1.12  Haste=0.63   (standard, 100k iterations)

EDIT2: Looks like I have to investigate the "smooth_rng" scaling issues. Bummer.

EDIT3: Well... I'm standing by the "smooth" values. When smooth_scale_factors=0, we use a whopping 250 delta haste rating in order to minimize variance. I believe this pushes us into the haste soft-cap, making the dDPS/dGear formula erroneous. When smooth_scale_factors=1 we reduce variance in alternate ways, enabling a delta of only 100 haste rating which is less prone to soft-cap issues.

Apparently SimulationCraft had quite some issues when a caster hit the GCD cap with haste and scale factors, this affected balance druids the most, because with NG+CF it is an easy to reach cap for us.
Thanks to everyone who said those values can't be true.

Now I'm getting

  Druid_T8_BiS               Int=0.59  Spi=0.49  SP=1.49  Hit=2.91  Crit=1.13  Haste=0.99  Lag=0.00

Before the haste cap, the value for haste is at ~1.75

I'll try to get a BiS profile for 3.2.0 together and post it here to get some feedback.

Kricketz · 06/27/09, 12:47 AM

Alright, I just started boomkin'ing for my new guild. Herehttp://http://www.wowarmory.com/char...Lair&n=Krickey is a ling to my armory, right now im just below hit cap, with talents, you can view my spec as well. Basically, im pushing around 3.4-3.7k dps and i feel like i could do more. Anyone wanna take a look and see if there is anything i can do to improve? I'm using lunar eclipse procs, have read just about everything i can everywhere and still don't seem to be able to do enough. Also if anyone has some suggestions for the hodir fight, doing hard mode there and barely breaking 5-6k. I wish i had a WWS to post, but my guild doesn't have anyone recording it right now (go figure). But yeah, any suggestions or changes will be appreciated!

• Arawethion · 06/27/09, 1:00 AM

Originally Posted by Kricketz

Alright, I just started boomkin'ing for my new guild. Herehttp://http://www.wowarmory.com/char...Lair&n=Krickey is a ling to my armory, right now im just below hit cap, with talents, you can view my spec as well. Basically, im pushing around 3.4-3.7k dps and i feel like i could do more. Anyone wanna take a look and see if there is anything i can do to improve? I'm using lunar eclipse procs, have read just about everything i can everywhere and still don't seem to be able to do enough. Also if anyone has some suggestions for the hodir fight, doing hard mode there and barely breaking 5-6k. I wish i had a WWS to post, but my guild doesn't have anyone recording it right now (go figure). But yeah, any suggestions or changes will be appreciated!

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t59457-m...dated_3_1_3_a/

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/a45-here...p_me_not_suck/

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I threw up a spreadsheet update with some Vezax changes if anyone wants to tinker with it.