Moonkin Raiding - Page 68

Starfox · 06/27/09, 1:43 AM

Originally Posted by Atheril92

Testing set out now

-50% proc chance on relic (possibly higher)
--Procs so much it's annoying. It's the same animation as the finishing of a healing spell
--Might be bugged? Seems stupidly high proc
-Moonfire crits are 200%
--Do not proc NG
--Do not regen mana from Moonkin Form

The 'new' Eclipse isn't currently implemented

The procchance on the Idol is 70%, so it has no cooldown?
And nice that Vengeance also effects the dot-crits of MF

• Arawethion · 06/29/09, 1:10 PM

SimCraft folks--what are you currently showing as the DPS benefit from 4T8? I haven't gotten around to trying to find a good way to model it in WC, but after playing with it for a weeks, I'm skeptical that it's very strong at all against single targets. I might try the gear setup in my Armory for a bit instead for a significant stat bump instead of the set bonus.

Horao · 06/29/09, 1:50 PM

Originally Posted by Altiris

I was able to log on PTR and test Balance of Power. It is still 4%. Had 8.49% hit from gear, 3% from iFF and 2/2 BoP and got a miss after a few casts. If it were 6%, that wouldn't be possible.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3014/newbop.jpg

The way it's worded currently, it's listed at 6%. Last I checked PTR was no mods, but it'd be good to try 0/2 BoP, throw out 100 casts, do 1/2 BoP, another 100 and finally 2/2 with another 100.

• Arawethion · 06/29/09, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by Horao

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3014/newbop.jpg

The way it's worded currently, it's listed at 6%. Last I checked PTR was no mods, but it'd be good to try 0/2 BoP, throw out 100 casts, do 1/2 BoP, another 100 and finally 2/2 with another 100.

You wouldn't have to do any elaborate statistical test, just gear yourself to 8% from gear + IFF + BoP and see if you miss. Someone tried this above and reported that they did miss, although some confirmation would never hurt.

dukes · 06/29/09, 2:48 PM

Just had a miss on PTR heroic training dummy - faerie fire on the target and 9.07% hit in char sheet (238 hit rating). It's either that they've implemented the text and not the talent (which is possible as Eclipse isn't implemented with the changed version), or they aren't actually changing it.

dedmonwakeen · 06/29/09, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

SimCraft folks--what are you currently showing as the DPS benefit from 4T8? I haven't gotten around to trying to find a good way to model it in WC, but after playing with it for a weeks, I'm skeptical that it's very strong at all against single targets. I might try the gear setup in my Armory for a bit instead for a significant stat bump instead of the set bonus.

About 140dps (for this particular gear setup)

Base Profile


#!simcraft max_time=300 optimal_raid=1

druid=Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0xRbuiIsfdIVhouZbxczb
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=fish_feast/mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/mana_potion
actions+=/innervate,trigger=19000
actions+=/treants
actions+=/starfall,skip_on_eclipse=1
actions+=/moonfire,eclipse_left>=12
actions+=/insect_swarm,skip_on_eclipse=1
actions+=/wrath,eclipse=trigger
actions+=/use_item,name=scale_of_fates
actions+=/starfire 

# Standard Gear Attributes http://www.chardev.org/?template=176626
gear_stamina=958
gear_intellect=1005
gear_spirit=464
gear_spell_power=2361
gear_hit_rating=261
gear_crit_rating=614
gear_haste_rating=349

tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1

# Meta Gem
meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare

# Item Procs
items=flare_of_the_heavens/scale_of_fates

# Glyphs
glyphs=moonfire/starfire/insect_swarm

# Relic
idol=idol_of_the_shooting_star

With the bonus...

[hieter@localhost simulationcraft]$ ./Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF.simcraft iterations=10000

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=10000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

Generating baseline... 
10... 9... 8... 7... 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... 

Generating reports...

DPS Ranking:
   6547 100.0%  Raid
   6550  100.0%  Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF

Player=Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF (balance)  DPS=6549.7 (Error=+/-3.3 Range=+/-683)  DPR=22.2  RS=294.7/290.6  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=94  agility=77  stamina=1058  intellect=1257  spirit=625  health=14000  mana=22076
  Spell Stats:  power=2699  hit=13.95%  crit=22.76%  penetration=0  haste=10.64%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=-362  hit=7.96%  crit=21.77%  expertise=0.00  penetration=0.00%  haste=13.84%
  Defense Stats:  armor=154
  Glyphs: moonfire/starfire/insect_swarm
  Actions:
    insect_swarm          Count= 15.7|19.3sec  DPE=  9341| 7%  DPET=  7852  DPR=  35.4  pDPS= 490  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=108  Tick=1365
    moonfire              Count= 10.5|29.6sec  DPE= 11730| 6%  DPET=  9878  DPR=  17.2  pDPS= 410  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 334  Crit=  698|  775|50.2%  TickCount=80  Tick=1466
    starfall              Count=  3.8|94.6sec  DPE= 13036| 3%  DPET= 10469  DPR=  10.0  pDPS= 167  Miss=0.1%  TickCount=75  Tick=449  CritTick=939|1648|44.3%
    starfire              Count=104.2| 2.8sec  DPE= 12279|65%  DPET=  6301  DPR=  24.0  pDPS=4265  Miss=0.1%  Hit=6895  Crit=14415|16726|71.6%
    wrath                 Count= 51.1| 5.6sec  DPE=  5675|15%  DPET=  4969  DPR=  16.2  pDPS= 967  Miss=0.1%  Hit=3828  Crit= 8000| 9271|44.3%
   treants  (DPS=355.7)
    treant_melee          Count= 42.0| 1.5sec  DPE=  1785| 4%  DPET=  1226  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 250  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1866  Crit= 3733| 3946|8.2%  Glance=1400|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Gains:

    Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5460.9  (overflow=16.5%)
        initial_mana=25994.2
        judgement_of_wisdom=7045.4  (overflow=1.3%)
        mana_potion=794.2
        moonkin_form=51680.2  (overflow=3.1%)
        mp5_regen=5625.8  (overflow=11.6%)
        omen_of_clarity=5157.5
        replenishment=16490.9  (overflow=15.2%)
        spirit_intellect_regen=31.6  (overflow=49.2%)

Procs:

    Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF:
        flare_of_the_heavens=5.6|53.17sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=102.1|2.94sec
        omen_of_clarity=10.6|28.40sec
        scale_of_fates=3.0|99.96sec
        tier8_4pc=8.6|34.71sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy                  
        100.0% : improved_scorch               
        100.0% : improved_shadow_bolt          
        100.0% : master_poisoner               
        100.0% : savage_combat                 
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath                
        100.0% : winters_chill                 

    Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF:
         56.1% : eclipse_starfire              
         84.3% : natures_grace                 
        100.0% : replenishment                 

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 19400714
  MaxEventQueue = 17
  TargetHealth  = 1959036
  SimSeconds    = 2999918
  CpuSeconds    = 10.230
  SpeedUp       = 293247

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000371 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000242

Without the bonus:

[hieter@localhost simulationcraft]$ ./Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF.simcraft iterations=10000 tier8_4pc=0

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.3 ( iterations=10000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

Generating baseline... 
10... 9... 8... 7... 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... 

Generating reports...

DPS Ranking:
   6406 100.0%  Raid
   6408  100.0%  Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF

Player=Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF (balance)  DPS=6408.1 (Error=+/-3.1 Range=+/-572)  DPR=22.1  RS=289.4/285.3  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=94  agility=77  stamina=1058  intellect=1257  spirit=625  health=14000  mana=22076
  Spell Stats:  power=2699  hit=13.95%  crit=22.76%  penetration=0  haste=10.64%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=-362  hit=7.96%  crit=21.77%  expertise=0.00  penetration=0.00%  haste=13.84%
  Defense Stats:  armor=154
  Glyphs: moonfire/starfire/insect_swarm
  Actions:
    insect_swarm          Count= 15.8|19.3sec  DPE=  9344| 8%  DPET=  7852  DPR=  35.4  pDPS= 491  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=108  Tick=1366
    moonfire              Count= 10.4|29.8sec  DPE= 11708| 6%  DPET=  9864  DPR=  17.2  pDPS= 406  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 334  Crit=  698|  775|50.3%  TickCount=79  Tick=1465
    starfall              Count=  3.9|94.6sec  DPE= 13048| 3%  DPET= 10484  DPR=  10.0  pDPS= 168  Miss=0.1%  TickCount=76  Tick=449  CritTick=938|1648|44.3%
    starfire              Count=100.9| 2.9sec  DPE= 12245|64%  DPET=  6095  DPR=  23.9  pDPS=4120  Miss=0.0%  Hit=6892  Crit=14405|16726|71.3%
    wrath                 Count= 51.4| 5.6sec  DPE=  5679|15%  DPET=  4975  DPR=  16.2  pDPS= 973  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3828  Crit= 8001| 9271|44.4%
   treants  (DPS=355.7)
    treant_melee          Count= 42.0| 1.5sec  DPE=  1786| 4%  DPET=  1226  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 250  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1866  Crit= 3732| 3946|8.2%  Glance=1400|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Gains:

    Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5441.1  (overflow=16.8%)
        initial_mana=25994.2
        judgement_of_wisdom=7004.5  (overflow=1.3%)
        mana_potion=703.5
        moonkin_form=50343.9  (overflow=3.2%)
        mp5_regen=5614.6  (overflow=11.8%)
        omen_of_clarity=5058.5
        replenishment=16431.7  (overflow=15.6%)
        spirit_intellect_regen=30.4  (overflow=48.4%)

Procs:

    Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF:
        flare_of_the_heavens=5.6|53.28sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=101.5|2.95sec
        omen_of_clarity=10.4|28.90sec
        scale_of_fates=3.0|99.98sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy                  
        100.0% : improved_scorch               
        100.0% : improved_shadow_bolt          
        100.0% : master_poisoner               
        100.0% : savage_combat                 
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath                
        100.0% : winters_chill                 

    Druid_T8_58_00_13_SF:
         55.4% : eclipse_starfire              
         84.4% : natures_grace                 
        100.0% : replenishment                 

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 19263795
  MaxEventQueue = 14
  TargetHealth  = 1916724
  SimSeconds    = 3000578
  CpuSeconds    = 9.950
  SpeedUp       = 301566

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000401 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000064

Hjalte · 06/29/09, 7:29 PM

I am really not sure what Blizzard thought when they gave us this T9 4P bonus:

Originally Posted by http://www.mmo-champion.com

Increases the critical strike chance of your Starfire and Wrath spells by 3%.

For example, compare it to the mages:

Item - Mage T9 4P Bonus (Fireball, Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, and Arcane Blast) - Increases the critical strike chance of your Fireball, Frostbolt, Frostfire Bolt, Arcane Missiles, and Arcane Blast spells by 5%.

If anyone has forgotten, our T7 4P was 5% crit to both Starfire and Wrath. It must be because of the Eclipse change - OR - they are still to give us something else / tweak the numbers.

Edit: What Altiris says is right of course. I am only considering the new Eclipse in the sense that we now use both nukes instead of choosing one as our "main rotation". This could lead someone as silly as me believing 3%+3% equals 6%(T9) which is more than 5% (T7). I agree that they need to come up with something much better or we will never lose T8-2.

Altiris · 06/29/09, 7:34 PM

Except that it is specifically because of the Eclipse change that they need to give us a better 4T9 bonus than that. As it is, in 3.2, 2T8 is huge, and may not be worth gearing out of, at least not until heroic T9.

ehakam · 06/29/09, 7:34 PM

Originally Posted by dukes

Just had a miss on PTR heroic training dummy - faerie fire on the target and 9.07% hit in char sheet (238 hit rating). It's either that they've implemented the text and not the talent (which is possible as Eclipse isn't implemented with the changed version), or they aren't actually changing it.

Can you check if you're taking 6% reduced magical dmg? If you're not, then your hypothesis is probably correct, but if you are, I would suspect the tooltip is incorrect.

I thought the intent was to be 2% hit and 3% dmg reduction. It seems highly unlikely that Blizzard would put in a +3% hit/pt talent. We already have +4% hit, which unless I'm mistaken, is higher than any other class gets from talents.

anyakaschala · 06/29/09, 8:09 PM

as far as 4t8, it seems the value of it is pretty relative. Mainly I say this is beause of the ability to take full advantage of it as soon as it happens.

Best thing I did recently was start using PowerAuras add-on. It tells me exactly when Elune's Wrath happens and as thus I get full benefit. Without it, I was basically just getting lucky with procs and probably miss quite a few.

Any word or testing on t9 pieces? Seems like the 2t8/2t9 would likely be the best option. As a 3% to crit on Wrath and Starfire of the 4t9 seems a bit low.

Altiris · 06/29/09, 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by anyakaschala

as far as 4t8, it seems the value of it is pretty relative. Mainly I say this is beause of the ability to take full advantage of it as soon as it happens.

Best thing I did recently was start using PowerAuras add-on. It tells me exactly when Elune's Wrath happens and as thus I get full benefit. Without it, I was basically just getting lucky with procs and probably miss quite a few.

Any word or testing on t9 pieces? Seems like the 2t8/2t9 would likely be the best option. As a 3% to crit on Wrath and Starfire of the 4t9 seems a bit low.

I haven't gotten back on the PTR since the patch, but that was my guess. Especially because the difference between T8 shoulders/legs and T9 shoulders/legs isn't anywhere near as large as the difference between 2T8 and 4T9. About 78 SP and 31 hit for 73 crit.

Starfox · 06/29/09, 8:46 PM

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.2.0 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
  21010 100.0%  Raid
   7131  33.9%  Druid_PTR_2T8_2T9
   7051  33.5%  Druid_PTR_2T8_4T8
   6852  32.6%  Druid_PTR_0T8_4T9

Player=Druid_PTR_0T8_4T9 (balance)  DPS=6851.8 (Error=+/-3.5 Range=+/-689)  DPR=22.7  RS=301.8/295.7  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=94  agility=77  stamina=1058  intellect=1257  spirit=625  health=14000  mana=22076
  Spell Stats:  power=2699  hit=13.95%  crit=22.76%  penetration=0  haste=10.64%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=-362  hit=7.96%  crit=21.77%  expertise=0.00  penetration=0.00%  haste=13.84%
  Defense Stats:  armor=154
  Glyphs: moonfire/starfire/insect_swarm
  Actions:
    insect_swarm          Count= 16.0|19.1sec  DPE=  9307| 7%  DPET=  7874  DPR=  35.1  pDPS= 496  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=109  Tick=1364
    moonfire              Count=  9.6|32.4sec  DPE= 17464| 8%  DPET= 14470  DPR=  25.7  pDPS= 561  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 334  Crit=  699|  775|50.3%  TickCount=72  Tick=1468  CritTick=3067|3497|50.3%
    starfall              Count=  3.8|96.0sec  DPE= 12773| 2%  DPET= 10261  DPR=   9.8  pDPS= 164  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=74  Tick=449  CritTick=940|1648|44.3%
    starfire              Count= 68.3| 4.2sec  DPE= 12309|41%  DPET=  6154  DPR=  24.1  pDPS=2807  Miss=0.1%  Hit=6886  Crit=14416|16726|72.1%
    wrath                 Count=110.7| 2.6sec  DPE=  6966|38%  DPET=  6170  DPR=  19.8  pDPS=2574  Miss=0.0%  Hit=4599  Crit= 9611|12053|47.3%
   treants  (DPS=355.5)
    treant_melee          Count= 42.0| 1.5sec  DPE=  1783| 4%  DPET=  1225  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 250  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1866  Crit= 3733| 3946|8.1%  Glance=1400|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Player=Druid_PTR_2T8_2T9 (balance)  DPS=7131.5 (Error=+/-3.8 Range=+/-799)  DPR=23.6  RS=302.1/296.6  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=94  agility=77  stamina=1058  intellect=1257  spirit=625  health=14000  mana=22076
  Spell Stats:  power=2699  hit=13.95%  crit=22.76%  penetration=0  haste=10.64%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=-362  hit=7.96%  crit=21.77%  expertise=0.00  penetration=0.00%  haste=13.84%
  Defense Stats:  armor=154
  Glyphs: moonfire/starfire/insect_swarm
  Actions:
    insect_swarm          Count= 15.9|19.1sec  DPE=  9311| 7%  DPET=  7876  DPR=  35.2  pDPS= 495  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=109  Tick=1364
    moonfire              Count=  9.8|31.8sec  DPE= 17374| 8%  DPET= 14372  DPR=  25.6  pDPS= 567  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 334  Crit=  699|  775|50.3%  TickCount=72  Tick=1467  CritTick=3067|3497|50.3%
    starfall              Count=  3.8|96.0sec  DPE= 12772| 2%  DPET= 10269  DPR=   9.8  pDPS= 163  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=74  Tick=450  CritTick=937|1648|44.3%
    starfire              Count= 68.7| 4.2sec  DPE= 12878|41%  DPET=  6469  DPR=  25.2  pDPS=2952  Miss=0.1%  Hit=6876  Crit=14417|16726|79.6%
    wrath                 Count=110.2| 2.6sec  DPE=  7352|38%  DPET=  6492  DPR=  20.9  pDPS=2704  Miss=0.0%  Hit=4959  Crit=10364|13444|44.3%
   treants  (DPS=356.1)
    treant_melee          Count= 42.0| 1.5sec  DPE=  1787| 4%  DPET=  1227  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 250  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1866  Crit= 3733| 3946|8.3%  Glance=1399|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Player=Druid_PTR_2T8_4T8 (balance)  DPS=7050.8 (Error=+/-3.9 Range=+/-834)  DPR=23.0  RS=307.2/301.1  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=94  agility=77  stamina=1058  intellect=1257  spirit=625  health=14000  mana=22076
  Spell Stats:  power=2699  hit=13.95%  crit=22.76%  penetration=0  haste=10.64%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=-362  hit=7.96%  crit=21.77%  expertise=0.00  penetration=0.00%  haste=13.84%
  Defense Stats:  armor=154
  Glyphs: moonfire/starfire/insect_swarm
  Actions:
    insect_swarm          Count= 15.9|19.1sec  DPE=  9314| 7%  DPET=  7873  DPR=  35.2  pDPS= 495  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=109  Tick=1364
    moonfire              Count=  9.7|32.2sec  DPE= 11491| 5%  DPET=  9497  DPR=  16.9  pDPS= 371  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 335  Crit=  699|  775|50.1%  TickCount=72  Tick=1467
    starfall              Count=  3.8|96.0sec  DPE= 12756| 2%  DPET= 10248  DPR=   9.8  pDPS= 163  Miss=0.1%  TickCount=73  Tick=450  CritTick=939|1648|44.2%
    starfire              Count= 74.3| 3.9sec  DPE= 12741|45%  DPET=  6722  DPR=  24.9  pDPS=3158  Miss=0.1%  Hit=6891  Crit=14429|16726|77.6%
    wrath                 Count=106.7| 2.7sec  DPE=  7336|37%  DPET=  6476  DPR=  20.9  pDPS=2613  Miss=0.1%  Hit=4952  Crit=10349|13444|44.2%
   treants  (DPS=355.5)
    treant_melee          Count= 42.0| 1.5sec  DPE=  1784| 4%  DPET=  1225  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 250  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1866  Crit= 3731| 3946|8.2%  Glance=1399|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Gains:

    Druid_PTR_2T8_4T8:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5814.1  (overflow=11.1%)
        initial_mana=25994.3
        judgement_of_wisdom=6916.3  (overflow=1.2%)
        mana_potion=2302.3
        moonkin_form=55372.3  (overflow=2.9%)
        mp5_regen=5846.1  (overflow=8.2%)
        omen_of_clarity=5475.8
        replenishment=13960.7  (overflow=10.3%)
        spirit_intellect_regen=20.8  (overflow=41.2%)

    Druid_PTR_2T8_2T9:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5771.2  (overflow=11.8%)
        initial_mana=25994.3
        judgement_of_wisdom=6846.5  (overflow=1.3%)
        mana_potion=1967.6
        moonkin_form=54588.3  (overflow=3.2%)
        mp5_regen=5814.4  (overflow=8.7%)
        omen_of_clarity=5327.0
        replenishment=13865.1  (overflow=10.9%)
        spirit_intellect_regen=20.9  (overflow=40.7%)

    Druid_PTR_0T8_4T9:
        blessing_of_wisdom=5893.7  (overflow=9.9%)
        initial_mana=25994.3
        judgement_of_wisdom=6842.5  (overflow=1.2%)
        mana_potion=2172.8
        moonkin_form=53634.1  (overflow=3.1%)
        mp5_regen=5899.0  (overflow=7.3%)
        omen_of_clarity=5353.3
        replenishment=14152.3  (overflow=9.1%)
        spirit_intellect_regen=21.9  (overflow=39.7%)

Procs:

    Druid_PTR_2T8_4T8:
        flare_of_the_heavens=5.8|52.10sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=100.2|2.99sec
        omen_of_clarity=12.1|24.74sec
        scale_of_fates=3.0|100.16sec
        tier8_4pc=8.7|34.32sec

    Druid_PTR_2T8_2T9:
        flare_of_the_heavens=5.7|52.21sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=99.2|3.02sec
        omen_of_clarity=11.9|25.19sec
        scale_of_fates=3.0|99.99sec

    Druid_PTR_0T8_4T9:
        flare_of_the_heavens=5.8|52.10sec
        judgement_of_wisdom=99.1|3.03sec
        omen_of_clarity=12.0|25.03sec
        scale_of_fates=3.0|99.96sec

Up-Times:

    Global:
        100.0% : blood_frenzy                  
        100.0% : improved_scorch               
        100.0% : improved_shadow_bolt          
        100.0% : master_poisoner               
        100.0% : savage_combat                 
        100.0% : totem_of_wrath                
        100.0% : winters_chill                 

    Druid_PTR_2T8_4T8:
         68.2% : eclipse_starfire              
         66.3% : eclipse_wrath                 
         85.1% : natures_grace                 
        100.0% : replenishment                 

    Druid_PTR_2T8_2T9:
         72.7% : eclipse_starfire              
         66.7% : eclipse_wrath                 
         85.4% : natures_grace                 
        100.0% : replenishment                 

    Druid_PTR_0T8_4T9:
         73.6% : eclipse_starfire              
         68.3% : eclipse_wrath                 
         86.1% : natures_grace                 
        100.0% : replenishment                 

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 48389618
  MaxEventQueue = 39
  TargetHealth  = 6298660
  SimSeconds    = 2999564
  CpuSeconds    = 27.625
  SpeedUp       = 108582

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000268 Range=1.000000 Gauss=0.999904

I only changed the setbonuses in the profiles, stats from gear remained the same.
2T8+2T9 > 4T8 >> 4T9
2T8 is just too awesome in 3.2.0. It's a whopping 4% dps-difference between 2+2 and 4T9

Altiris · 06/29/09, 10:56 PM

The new Eclipse is now working on the PTR, but it's hard to test because the server keeps crashing and Moonkin form is not returning mana on crits.

In other news, they have implemented Emblems of Triumph on the PTR so T9 and the new idol are no longer available. New idol costs 25 Emblems of Triumph.

Starfox · 06/30/09, 12:02 AM

The E&M debuff also does not work for me

thedopefishlives · 06/30/09, 1:37 AM

From what I can tell, using what math I have in Rawr and provided proc rates, the following seem to be true:

1) 2T8+2T9 is where it's at. 4T9 is a decently powerful set bonus, but it cannot come anywhere near breaking 2T8.
2) Lunar Fury theoretically works out to be better than Shooting Star. Not by much, but it gives me hope. As long as they keep the proc rate way up there, of course.
3) Glyph of Moonfire and Glyph of Starfire are both required to maximize DPS. With 2T9, keeping the Moonfire dot up 100% becomes paramount. Insect Swarm vs. Starfall is pretty much a wash.
4) Haste takes a bit of a nosedive around the magic 400 haste mark.

• Arawethion · 06/30/09, 2:24 AM

Originally Posted by thedopefishlives

From what I can tell, using what math I have in Rawr and provided proc rates, the following seem to be true:

1) 2T8+2T9 is where it's at. 4T9 is a decently powerful set bonus, but it cannot come anywhere near breaking 2T8.
2) Lunar Fury theoretically works out to be better than Shooting Star. Not by much, but it gives me hope. As long as they keep the proc rate way up there, of course.
3) Glyph of Moonfire and Glyph of Starfire are both required to maximize DPS. With 2T9, keeping the Moonfire dot up 100% becomes paramount. Insect Swarm vs. Starfall is pretty much a wash.
4) Haste takes a bit of a nosedive around the magic 400 haste mark.

I'm seeing:

1) Yup, 2T8 not breakable for anything that would be available at ilvl 258.
2) Lunar Fury far better than Shooting Star. More than twice as good if you assume 100% uptime.
3) Moonfire/Starfire best Glyphs, yes, but Insect Swarm still far better than Starfall for single-target DPS.
4) Haste and Crit roughly equal even in the high-haste region.*

*I have to spell out my thoughts on haste more at some point. I have no idea why everyone seems to be coming in with such low values for haste. Even under the assumption that haste affects only Starfire, it's nearly as good as crit. And it also affects instants and Wraths whenever NG is down (which admittedly won't be very often in an idealized single-target situation). But people seeing haste coming in at barely over half the value of a spellpower or crit have have to go over their assumptions.

amped · 06/30/09, 3:27 AM

Originally Posted by Altiris

The new Eclipse is now working on the PTR, but it's hard to test because the server keeps crashing and Moonkin form is not returning mana on crits.

In other news, they have implemented Emblems of Triumph on the PTR so T9 and the new idol are no longer available. New idol costs 25 Emblems of Triumph.

Originally Posted by Starfox

The E&M debuff also does not work for me

Yeah, this PTR build is certainly very buggy. Additional bugs I've noticed that haven't been mentioned are:

-Clearcasting is procing from DoT Ticks.
-Clearcasting is not consumed when a spell is cast, all spells are effectively free for 12 seconds.

Pretty entertaining, but I hope these bugs are addressed soon so that we can get some actual testing done :]

bodvarbjarki · 06/30/09, 3:01 PM

I guess I don't really understand the QQing about 4T9. I feel like it's more likely to lead to a nerf of the 2T8 bonus than a buffing of the former. Yes, 4T9 is an unimaginative and mediocre bonus, but, frankly, 2T8 is somewhat overpowered with the Eclipse change. But, unlike the case with 4T5 (where I was running TK at the end of BT farming to get the "best" 4T5 set), people won't have to run old content to get 2T8. And the fact that it's two pieces instead of four makes it much more flexible. Plus, you won't look like every single other toon that will be decked out in full T9.

Given ongoing, major changes to the class with nearly every significant patch, it doesn't seem tenable to me to expect set bonuses to be an simple, pre-planned progression tier-to-tier.

Altiris · 06/30/09, 3:36 PM

Ultimately I hope they do nerf 2T8. It would make sense, because it will be very overpowered in 3.2, and I don't think it is their intention to pigeonhole us with old gear. However, 4T9 also needs a buff to bring it in line not only with 4T7, but also the set bonuses of other classes.

Vyshe · 06/30/09, 5:00 PM

I thought people were convinced the 4p T9 was temporary and would emerge as a clear upgrade regardless of the insane ilvl of the new heroic gear? For that reason I figured the idea was that with badge changes anyone can get 2p T8 and get a smooth ugprade curve, going 2p > 2x2p > 4p. But I may been overly optimistic. In any case the 2p T9 seems really nice from the little time I spent with it on the PTR. MF dot crits for ~2.9k on target dummy? Yum.

• Arawethion · 06/30/09, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by Vyshe

I thought people were convinced the 4p T9 was temporary and would emerge as a clear upgrade regardless of the insane ilvl of the new heroic gear? For that reason I figured the idea was that with badge changes anyone can get 2p T8 and get a smooth ugprade curve, going 2p > 2x2p > 4p. But I may been overly optimistic. In any case the 2p T9 seems really nice from the little time I spent with it on the PTR. MF dot crits for ~2.9k on target dummy? Yum.

The original 4T9 (5% crit to Starfire) was assumed to be a placeholder. In the latest round of updates on MMOC, it was changed to 3% crit on Starfire/Wrath, which is basically just as weak.

I don't anyone's expecting 4T9, whatever it winds up being, to be an upgrade. We're saying the opposite--nothing they put there is going to outdo 2T8 anyway.

Nanahanna · 06/30/09, 6:45 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

The original 4T9 (5% crit to Starfire) was assumed to be a placeholder. In the latest round of updates on MMOC, it was changed to 3% crit on Starfire/Wrath, which is basically just as weak.

I don't anyone's expecting 4T9, whatever it winds up being, to be an upgrade. We're saying the opposite--nothing they put there is going to outdo 2T8 anyway.

Set bonus for set bonus no, but when you count in the stats from pieces it might be worth it with an inferior 4 piece for the stat gains on using 4 pieces of the ilvl 245. But it will still take an improvement of at least 1% over current to make that viable from the napkin math i did.

Altiris · 06/30/09, 7:23 PM

Originally Posted by Nanahanna

Set bonus for set bonus no, but when you count in the stats from pieces it might be worth it with an inferior 4 piece for the stat gains on using 4 pieces of the ilvl 245. But it will still take an improvement of at least 1% over current to make that viable from the napkin math i did.

As it stands right now it's looking like 2t8 2t9 is about 4% better than 4t9, and with the meager differences in stats between the other two pieces of t8 for t9 ("About 78 SP and 31 hit for 73 crit." replacing t8 pants/shoulders with t9) it isn't being made up. Also it has to be more than comparable to make it worth upgrading. If it isn't a real upgrade, it's simply not worth the effort.

Vyshe · 06/30/09, 7:44 PM

bah, completely missed they changed it already. Lets hope something changes. Would suck to be stuck in ilvl 226 gear. Rather take a nerf to 2p T8 then, like some are already saying.

My only real concern is the haste vs crit weights that you guys are grinding down as we speak. I can't shake the feeling that I'll be constantly wincing from gearing into either less Lunar dps or more Solar gcd clipping. Since rotation seems to be loosing its importance, just go on and cue the crazy old theorycrafter appearing with the magic plot of optimal crit/haste for SP stuck to his beard and I can just set my teeth and go with it.

anyakaschala · 06/30/09, 8:54 PM

Originally Posted by Vyshe

bah, completely missed they changed it already. Lets hope something changes. Would suck to be stuck in ilvl 226 gear. Rather take a nerf to 2p T8 then, like some are already saying.

My only real concern is the haste vs crit weights that you guys are grinding down as we speak. I can't shake the feeling that I'll be constantly wincing from gearing into either less Lunar dps or more Solar gcd clipping. Since rotation seems to be loosing its importance, just go on and cue the crazy old theorycrafter appearing with the magic plot of optimal crit/haste for SP stuck to his beard and I can just set my teeth and go with it.

It seems that Blizzard doesn't like haste for druids, or at least overly hasted. Thus it looks, and i think it's been stated, that around 400 haste will be optimal in a 2t8/2t9 geared setup. I know for t7 content, I went over 600, now Ive dropped to just below 500 for t8.

But regardless of whether or not they change the bonus to 4t9, I like the change to balance for 3.2.