That particular effect does quite the opposite, actually. Wrath is already less MPS drained than Starfire thanks to Moonkin Form and Judgment of Wisdom both having increased returns on faster spells. The reason Starfire-as-filler has better mana efficiency as a whole right now is because Lunar Eclipse gives more mana than Solar Eclipse, but that'll be equal in 3.2. What will possibly nudge our overall mana efficiency downwards is a lower Lunar uptime in 3.2, but this doesn't seem like it would be sufficient.

Rawr gives, with a fairly arbitrary BiS set, our DPS/DPM right now as 312.166 MPS now and the same in 3.2 as 312.028 MPS. They're not factoring any mana returns and I do not know how accurate they are. Assuming they're not completely off then the mana gain from fitting nearly twice as many casts, and thus opportunities to proc JoW and Moonkin, between our Lunars in 3.2 should easily outpace the mana loss from slightly delaying Lunar.

I wouldn't downplay this window too much. It's about 2 minutes long and occurs in the 8-10 minute window of the fight, which is about the time I'm prone to running out of mana in current yogg, if I'm gonna run out of mana at all.

I so don't get it...

I am a 4/5 t8,5 moonkin and my dps in the old raids like naxx sarth3d malygos or archa/emalon is very high5-6 dps without flask, but is very anything with ulduar (except xt or general) my dps is so low, i duell myself with the tanks. I don#t get it, most of the time i play lunareclipse.

The most shocking in the last couple of days was ulduar yogg hardmode one light in darkness, my overall dps in the killtry : 1,4k. What is happening? Am i a newbie? Or how do you guys compete with other damgedealer?

my owl:

The World of Warcraft Armory

Bye
Katharina

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/a45-here...p_me_not_suck/

But, to answer your question. Yes, you should do loads more damage. I compete among the top in my guild (our damage dealers aren't top notch).
You must be doing something very wrong, since you don't have any huge flaws in your spec. It must be a targetting / priority or rotation issue.

Read this, do what it says.
http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t59457-m...dated_3_2_ptr/

edit: That's updated for 3.2 now, but you should still read it.

edit 2: Sorry for not bringing any new and thoughtful information to the table. I was just answering the above poster's question while trying to point her (i presume) in the right direction to find information on how to improve.

Heh, actually, I didn't get to the spell rotation part when I updated :P.

e: but if you were really doing 5k on Patchwerk, you know the basic rotation issues covered by that thread.

I have a question regarding our spell rotation in 3.2:

Would it be better if we A) alternate Wrath and Starfire until eclipse (that way we wouldn't use a single wrong spell on the eclipse
B) keep to spamming Wrath (or Starfire) until eclipse

Would this change if I got the new 3.2 Idol over the SF one i'm using right now?

Question, does the 2 piece t8 for wrath make the eclipse bonus 45% or 49.5%? (100% damage+30% bonus*1.15)

Haven't confirmed experimentally myself, but everyone's definitely been assuming it's 45%. See also:
Item - Druid T8 Balance 2P Bonus - Spell - World of Warcraft

If you look at either the talent or the buff when you have 2T8 equipped, one (not both, but I forget which) updates to a value of 45%. I think it's the talent.

It is.

What is the favorable rotation right now, Lunar or Solar?

I did a search for this and didn't quite find what I was looking for, so I apologize if I just suck at searching.

In regard to spirit on our gear, is this not sub-optimal/wasted item budget? Obviously, spirit is .3 SP per point and other stats like haste or crit are in the .8 to .9 neighborhood. Obviously, it could also be the case that spirit is cheaper within the item budget and thus is perhaps not so bad.

I say this because I have been avoiding spirit-heavy gear, which had lead to be basically being unable to get the 4 piece bonus and instead wearing a lot of cloth (which is also very high in hit rating, making it further difficult to wear T8, hit-heavy as it is). Is this a mistake in gearing philosophy? Should I instead be going for leather? I should note that my guild is halfway through uld25 hardmodes, so ilvl 239 sp leather is starting to be very tempting.

1 Spirit costs the same as 1 hit/crit/haste rating. As a general matter, Spirit-bearing items are therefore suboptimal. But many are worth wearing due to sockets or 239 ilvl. You seem to have a sufficient understanding of the situation that you should just be doing actual numerical comparisons instead of looking for rules of thumb.

Personally, I'd still favor procing Lunar Eclipse first to get the stacks as high as possible immediately with spamming Wrath. There are tons of Moonkins that are using and will be using Illustration or Eye of the Broodmother.

That seems a viable enough thing, but can't you pre-stack it before combat - I unfortunately haven't gotten lucky enough to get either - but i'm pretty sure it stacks off any healing spell and maybe thorns.

Illustration doesn't proc from thorns. You can just rejuv yourself 10 times and keep the stack up till you start combat easily.

You don't actually waste time since you're just waiting to pull, and food is in infinite supply, but yeah, it's just a pain. I'll sometimes do it if I'm really bored, but often I'm typing in raid chat about the prior attempt or something, or am paying attention to something else for more than 9 seconds.

I personally don't do that, it's too much effort, I find my stacks getting up quick enough anyway from wrath spamming so I usually have 10 up by the time eclipse has procced. I try to keep the 10 stacks running mid combat say in Mimiron phases so I don't have to rebuild the stacks up and I'm regenning enough anyway.

Either way really, it's a small enough gain/loss that it could easily get overshadowed by rng. I honestly think i'll shoot for the Lunar first as well just to make use of the haste proc on my trinket since it'll likely proc around the same time as Lunar does.

With glyph of starfire, if starfire starts being cast right after at lets say a 2.1 casting speed and a roughly 1 seconds gcd, on the second starfire, would the 2nd 3 seconds bonus raise moonfires uptime to over 15 seconds or will it hit 15 seconds?

In other words, can glyph of starfire make moonfire's remaining time go over 15 seconds?

You can get over 15s if you SFx3 right after MF. But only a small ammount until high levels of Haste.

I know this issue is some days old, but the bonus of eclipse wrath is somewhat smaller as the multiplier is additive to the 10 % given by moonfury.

So without 2T8 its (1.1+0.3) / 1.1 which is actually only a 27.2% increase above your normal (moonfury powered) wrathes.
With 2t8 it gets up to (1.1+0.45)/1.1 which is a 40.9% increase over your normal wrathes.