[Sash of Ancient Power] is the obvious one. Maybe [Spellslinger's Slippers] as well. Honestly, this might not be worthwhile with 3.2 gear coming up--ilvl 226 craftables won't seem all that special.

1. I can't answer in exact numbers about 4T8 DPS gain but dor ulduar raiding i think it is an awesome bonus. Most of fights include you moving around and having an extra starfire to cast on the move is priceless imo. Especially when you have to move while lunar eclipse is active. Just remember how many times this happens: (let's take xt for example: lunar eclipse proc->light bomb on you) It might be just my luck but this happens very often to me on different bosses.
2. I can't help you with this one but i think that 2.2.10 takes in account 3.2 eclipse changes and it weights stats according to it. At least when i tried to find BiS gear for 3.2 with the gear obtainable atm. After you reach 400haste it values crit more. And regarding hit, rawr always values hit as your best stat till you reach the hit cap (263).

I think your logic is off regarding 45% solar, 55% lunar eclipse. I think it should be the other way around because of the simple fact that solar eclipse is much easier to proc than lunar. Remeber, EVERY starfire crit gives you a solar eclipse but not every wrath crit gives you the lunar one.

The problem with this is that Wrath is half the cast time, so waiting for that crit from Lunar takes longer. Even if Lunar is a 60% proc on Wrath you'll crit twice as many Wraths in the same ammount of time VS starfire crits.

I just got my 4 piece tier 8.5 gear set up put together, coming off of a 4 piece 7.5 setup.

It seems elunes wrath can either not proc much, or proc a lot. The best so far ive had 3 proc's during one lunar eclipse.

Is it advised to re-apply IS when you proc the lunar eclipse? My normal rotation (during eclipse) would only re-apply moonfire if it is about to expire.

Thanks in advance

So...I've been thinking of changing proffesions as my moonkin. Is engineering that bad of a choice for a raiding boomkin? The haste buff once a minute sounds really nice, like a mini heroism and u can use it every other eclipse theoritically. That does sound pretty good doesn't it? Currently I'm Alchemy and herb, I'm thinkin of dropping herb and either getting JC or engineering. I may just be off i know the large number of benefits from JC< but the enginerring extra haste every other eclipse sounds amazing. Not to mention.... it's gettin buffed next patch too?

Am i crazy, or is engineering that far off?

Also....this itemization of some of the t8.5 and 8 look very poory. Currently i have 3p t8 and 1p t8.5 to get the 4 set with the regulard 7.5 chest. I have a total of 4.38 haste unbuffed and aroudn 2200 SP. Crit is relaively low atm, 23%. Sometimes it looks like I did better on fights when I had t.7.5 4pc. The itemization on it was just a good bit better, should I continue with the t8 4pc cuz it's supposed to be better Don't get me wrong I still am topping meters on specific fights, but reguardless, I feel like sometimes I should just get the best gear possible and say screw the bonus!!!

Just a bit moonkin frustration....wtb 2 eclipses on diff cd's :P

for reference: World of Raids | Patch 3.2 Live

I could consider adding a FAQ section, maybe if people think up more questions that should be in it.

If you start spamming wraths about 3 seconds before the eclipse is off cooldown you can almost instantly proc another lunar immediately off every cooldown, sense they have flight time.

While this was true pre-3.2, it is no longer relevant, since you won't be waiting for Eclipse CDs.

So Balance of Power's bonus to hit went up 2%, I droped 1.8% of hit and am showing misses. The new hit cap for horde with IFF or shadow priest would be 8% with 2 points in Balance of Power, right?

Afaik the BoP tooltip is a typo and it is still only 4% hit. Need confirmation though.

Couple questoins:

1) I may be wrong for doing this, but what I did yesterday was proc my lunar eclipse, once that was over refresed dots again, spammed starfire to proc other ecliipse. However...if I didn't get it within 3 tries, I refresed my dots and continued starfire until lunar was of CD and re did it. Most of the time I was able to do both eclipses np, but sometimes I just tried it for the sake of it. However I wanna make it clear i always swapped in

2) Is it worthwhile now to swap idols in the middle so u get the extra SP for both? we might miss a cast but doest the SP make up for it?

3) How bad is engineering for moonkins? having that 13 sec min hero every minute for a lunar eclipse sounds amazin plus the crit to boots, SP to back? I'm starting to think it's a valuable prof unless i'm mistaken.

4) How bad is the idol of kolo and how good is the one from badges? the Moonfire one? is the IS good for phase 3 yogg or keeping just the regular SP for starfire? especially if we go 2 piece t7.5 t piece 8.5. And the moonfire...i'm skeptic of the chance to crit proccing compared to the constant SP of the SF.


thanks so much, you guys are most informative.

Definitely not worth losing a cast by swapping idols. I think that since they have given us a dps rotation that involves both Starfire and Wrath, I would say the better option is to use an idol that would be helpful during both eclipses. The crit given off of the new idol helps in the transitions to get your second eclipse up, as well as helping your Eclipses crit more often. I'm not one to do number crunches for maximizing DPS, but it certainly seems that from the raiding I've done so far that crit is increasing in importance as a DPS stat.

It seems that once we lose our 4T8 we should typically drop unglyphed IS:s from a maximum DPS rotation. Further, Glyph of Starfall is coming closer to being competitive for raw DPS in the same situation. The theorycrafting tools somewhat diverge on the specifics.

Rawr is harshest on the poor Swarm and gives me a mere 40 DPS increase from adding a glyphed IS to my rotation after swapping in 2T9 for 4T8, virtually identical to the DPS I get from glyph of Starfall. As gear improves the benefit from IS diminishes further.

Swapping out 4T8 in SimulationCraft gives me a 170 DPS difference between casting and not casting IS at the default Druid_SF settings. Increasing most ratings and stats by 150 -- a rough approximation of going +1 tier -- reduces that to about 100 DPS. SimCraft consistently supports dropping unglyphed IS from the rotation.

WrathCalcs is the outlier at the other end. The calculated increase from adding IS in 2T8 with default settings here is 200 DPS. Doing a similar rating increase lowers that to about 150 DPS. I'm rather skeptical about this, mainly because OO doesn't handle WC without errors -- I get 0 DPS from 4T8, for instance -- and I don't have Excel. WrathCalcs only suggests dropping unglyphed IS at higher gearing levels.

I'm inclined to say that Rawr is calculating poorly; a glyphed IS should have a high enough DPET over nukes that casting one remains around 100+ DPS even at very high gearing levels, but I've hardly studied Rawr's implementation in sufficient detail to know why it disagrees with me. It still seems likely that the DPS difference between the IS and SFall glyphs on single targets in 3.2 is going to start at around 100 DPS with a basic 2T8/2T9 setup, then gradually diminish to less than 50 DPS after significant gearing up.

Rawr also has a bug in it relating to the T9 set bonuses and Blizzard's terribad naming scheme, complete with misspelling the Alliance set bonus name. After correcting the bug, I show a typical moonkin in mostly T8-10 man gear, with 2T8 and 2T9, to produce a difference of 65 DPS with a glyphed Insect Swarm. Not game-breaking according to the test case I have in front of me, but not as severe as you would have it. It also shows that unglyphed IS is a ~25 dps loss with 2T8+2T9, but that this setup with the Starfall glyph is inferior to glyphing for IS.

WC doesn't have 4T8 in it all, just never got around to finding a good way to implement it. Everything else about IS should be accurate.

Glyph of IS should be about 150 DPS; simple napkin math confirms that. I don't see dropping that Glyph for DPS purposes anytime soon. If you have to unglyph IS for the raid debuff, then yeah, IS is very close to not being worth casting.

Right, I should say, very close to a wash for DPS. Point is, a glyphed IS is still a nice DPS bump compared to Glyph of Starfall, which is pretty weak against a single target.

How much DPS does a hunter loose by using their scorpid sting rather than whichever sting is best for their DPS rotation?

Unless its less than 150DPS moonkin should have unglyphed IS and keep it up on the boss for tank damage intensive fights (EG most hardmodes)

Hunters loose something on the order of 500 DPS so if you want the hit debuff we're the ones to provide it.

I don't mean to advocate dropping the IS glyph for full single target DPS races, it's manifestly superior there. It's relevant for clearing trash or other situations where the aoe component brings SFall up to par dps but mob melee damage is mostly ignorable, or mixed fights like Thorim where you'll want to keep the IS debuff up on him but will also want to maximize DPS in the gauntlet.

Okay, I'm having debate with a guildie between which trinkets to use. Currently I'm using [Scale of Fates] and [Pandora's Plea]

The debate though is between Pandora's and [Illustration of the Dragon Soul]

Personally, for me, it seems Pandora's offers the better RNG burst for balance, as we are a RNG burst class. Sure Illustration is sustained as long as it's maintained and not a lot of downtime movement. But still by my tests, Pandora's has still come out ahead. And no Rawr doesn't back me up on this either.

Any thoughts?

I am highly skeptical of how well the current Rawr Moonkin model is working. I'm new to being a level 80 druid but the fact that Rawr is suggesting that I should be gearing for MP5 makes me suspect that it isn't exactly something I should put my trust in.

If someone more knowledgeable could confirm my suspicions or explain why I'm wrong in this assumption I would appreciate it.

You probably have either an old version, haven't "specced" into Moonkin Form in RAWR or didn't activate the "(Improved) Moonkin Form" Buffs - it doesn't suggest MP5 for me. (not saying you should completely trust RAWR though - but it has it's use)