Dots wont reduce your dpm, as they're affected by the shadow crash in the same way as direct nukes. The only change I make from normal dps is to try and keep lunar eclipses up while in a crash and allow the cooldown to reset when I'm forced to move. Of course this is hardly predictable, but in a situation where it's possible to proc either eclipse, make sure it's the lunar one due to terrible scaling of wrath in the 100% bonus crash haste.

I haven't tested starfall in faction champion fight, but I really dont see how it's going to be useful even if it did full damage: You'd break so many crowd controls early in the fight that it shouldn't be used, and towards the end the outcome is already decided. All you're doing is adding negligible damage to a few mobs that could be easily mopped up anyway.

Post changes, with the HP nerfs, mana hasn't been as much a issue.

My standard method for him is:
Enter Crash -> MF -> 2-3x Wrath (for eclipse) -> Spam SF.

If lunar is on CD, I skip the wrath, and even if I don't proc Lunar i still only cast 2-3 Wraths depending on how soon i get into a crash... I also usually get a pally -threat a couple times a fight as I'm > 10k DPS.

With the nerfed hp on vezax & animus mana is really no problem anymore. (also some potions work, for example fel mana potion) Whenever I run out of the crash I'll cast IS if it is about to drop off or allready dropped off. The crash buff stays on me for a sec or maybe 2 when i move out of the crashzone, I don't know if its intended or latency. Moonfire I try to keep up 100%, either I refresh it when I run in to the shadow crash (NG) or while standing in crash, no clipping mf just when it drops off.

This probably has been mentioned before, but I'll repeat it anyway. When your guild uses a countdown, or lets go message or w/e to start the encounter, just ask the tank to wait 2-3sec before running in after that 'message', summon treants, and send them in with the tank. You can drink to 100% mana again before entering combat. Treants will be back off cd in time to use on animus with hero.

I don't know where to turn to look for answers, but last night I had an experience that completely baffles me....

In a normal high movement fight (like most Ulduar fights are these days) without special damage enhancing fight mechanics (such as Hodir) I can normally put out at least 5k DPS and normally sit at #3 on my guilds DPS charts and often somewhere in top 3 on overall damage. Last night I was second to last on my guilds DPS charts at an abyssmal 3500 (the one below me is a potential recruit we're trying out. Not looking good). I'm tearing my hair out trying to figure out why. The only recent gear changes I've made is shifting some stats around adding spellpower, haste and crit at the expense of hit. I dropped my hit down to 237 and being alliance with multiple Draenii in the party, I had heroic presence and I was using my IFF for the additional hit after that (not to mention there was a shadow priest with Misery up).

I don't button mash and take full advantage of my haste soft cap to use my GCD timed Wrath. I was taking advantage of Moonfire to proc the new ilevel 245 idol for extra crit and was toggling back and forth between my eclipses properly. Specifically the fights I did last night were the new ToC fight and I'm focusing on the first 2 bosses where there really isn't a lot of abnormal activity going on that can reduce your dps output (like there is on the third boss). My lag was not bad at any point last night.

Sadly, I didn't gather a WWS report to dig deeper....

My question isn't a look at my gear and what am I doing wrong as much as trying to find out if any other moonkins suddenly experienced something similar or if there's something new I missed that affects how we play.

Hit cap at 237 w/ Draenii in party and IFF always applied.
Haste soft cape surpassed above 401 and Wrath of Air Totem out
Flask of the Frost Wyrm used and Potion of Speed used during first eclipse
Spell rotation I'm using is what it has always been since 3.2 when they decoupled the eclipse procs

Did I just have a bad night or did other people experience a similar sudden drop?

That being said if you want to take a peak and let me know if you see some noob mistake I made, I'm all ears.

Here's my armory if you care to look: The World of Warcraft Armory

Most recent changes were:
Drop Pendant of Focused Energies - Thottbot: World of Warcraft in favor of Evoker's Charm - Thottbot: World of Warcraft
Drop Boots of Hasty Revival - Thottbot: World of Warcraft in favor of Boots of Wintry Endurance - Thottbot: World of Warcraft
Drop Valorous Dreamwalker Trousers - Thottbot: World of Warcraft in favor of Wildstrider Legguards - Thottbot: World of Warcraft <- Admitting this change breaks my 2 piece bonus for T7.5, but I'm prepping for getting my T9 shoulders VERY soon. So close to 45 Emblems of Triumph.

Hello All,

I am new to this forum and am a terrible speller so please forgive me. I have been searching the web tirelessly for the best spec for a moonkin dps. I have to disagree with most of what is said out there.

Due to the changes made in 3.2 allowing wrath to eclipse starfire and then starfire to immediately to eclipse wrath this is what i have found.

My rotation is...
FF - for the bonus to hit and crit
Wrath - for bonus spell damage
Starfall (espically if you have one of your trinkets go that increases spell power) use this every minute

Hit Trees if a trinket hits that increases spell power. put them behind the bosses if you can

Continue rotating starfire and wrath taking advantage of eclipse. And your dps will be increased from using any combination of hots.

Glyphs are starfall (reducing the cooldown to 1 minute), glyphs focus (increasing damage +20%, reduce range 50%, this is needed or you will pull mobs because range is way to big) and innervate.

I would love to hear anyones comments.

If interested i will give our my talent tree as well.

Check the new ilevel 245 trinket and tell me why you'd not do Moonfire. Insect Swarm has decreased in preference true, but there's going to be times when you aren't in an eclipse, however short. That's when you refresh your Insect Swarm, but personally I keep Moonfire up nearly 100% unless it means I'd get 1 less eclipse empowered spell because of the ilvel 245 trinket and it's rate of increasing eclipse procs. For 1 GCD you get more raw total damage for the DoT than an eclipsed spell for the time given, but prefer to refresh it while out of eclipse when possible.

I usually follow my spell rotation based upon where my eclipses take me. I'm aware that I'm not getting the value of the Bloodlust/Heroism if I'm casting Wrath since I'm past the haste cap to make Wrath at GCD, but more often than not I can proc an eclipse relatively quickly and get back to Starfire and make my hasted starfires that much better. Usually as a heroism is coming up I pop out my trees and prey I'm proccing an eclipse to lead me into the starfires, but I just take it where it lands.

MF will reduce your DPM; it's the lowest-DPM of our main spells. But with nerfed Vezax and the new Idol, I'd expect to just keep a normal rotation on Vezax.

I was on vacation for a bit so I've only done Vezax once since 3.2, here it is. First pull we wiped due to a missed interrupt, second I was an idiot and died, but you can see the rotation was working pretty well in both:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

No longer.

This is always a pain for us. I believe after modifying my spreadsheet for 30% added haste, the normal rotation still won out, indicating that you just try to use both Eclipses (although it would probably make sense to cancel Solar when Lunar comes off ICD). This doesn't answer the question though--Bloodlust is so short that you can't plan for full rotations. In reality you have to use a bit of judgment based on where you are in your cycle and how much time remains on the buff.

I also use normal rotation on vezax, basically just applying dots when i strafe out of shadow crash. Heres some WWS to show the numbers.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Both times i went oom just before saronite anomalus died, probably due to bad play so i can definately do much higher. But as you can see the rotation works well.

Hamarin - Did anybody ever answer your post? I actually had a very similar experience on 8/25 - same gear as normal, relatively same raid comp (I run 10s and were missing a shaman), but ridiculously lower DPS (like 2k lower). I noticed that my eclipsed seemed to never be proc'ing. Everything was back to normal during the next day's raid, so not sure how to explain it. Anybody have any thoughts?

Also: I've looked and didn't see any discussion of Talisman/Fetish of Volatile Power. Is the consensus that this trinket is not as good as Abyssal Rune + Sundial?

Ok so I want to get a 2piece t9. I think it's given that it's best 2p8 2p9. With that said and using rawr it looks like getting the t9 Helmet and chest is best. Assuming everyone is in full conq is that about right for everyone else? I know different gear has different ways of showing what's best. Just seems those tiers are a huge upgrade over the t8. Thank you so much for your time it's most appreciated.

Edit:typing on an I-phone=fail

Hi all-

My guild has been working on Mimiron 10-man hard mode. Normally my boss dps is somewhere around 5k, but I found that on the one real night of trying the hard mode, my dps was ridiculously lower (2500-2600 range), particularly in the first two phases of the fight. We are set to give it another go on Monday (and if we aren't able to down him, I'll make sure to create a WWS to link), but I was curious if any of y'all had any tips about how to manage decent dps while avoiding doomfires, rapid tank repositions of the boss, etc. I feel like all I'm able to do is throw up my dots and get a few wraths in, but rarely (if ever) have the time to hunker down and do some heavy nuking.

Thoughts?

When it comes to high movement fights, we all lose on damage, Moonkins probably among the biggest loss for a ranged. I mostly just clip my DoT's and try to focus on only using cast time nukes when standing still. Cooldown management comes into play as well, I would never use trees in p2 though.

I'm curious how moonkin are doing in raids at this point in 3.2. How are others fairing against classes like mages and rogues? I'm disappointed to see "pure" dps classes with less gear doing 500 dps on average.

Here are some recent logs if you want to look through:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

The 8.5 legs are the only spirit free tier piece, and are kind of a no brainer (although you may have to shuffle some pieces to deal with the hit.) Head/chest are what you want from tier 9 (also spirit free), which leaves 8.5 gloves or shoulders. 8.5 gloves have the absolute worst possible itemization (hit/spirit), so shoulders are what you're left with, especially since there are several well itemized (no hit/spirit) gloves available.

Our itemization is really very simple to evaluate (mostly because it's broken). "Unless there is a significant overall Ilevel difference, use whatever gear configuration gives you your desired tier bonus(es), keeps your hit as close to 263 as possible, and has as little spirit as you can manage."

Well I feel i must ask if you are receiving FM during these raids. I see you have about 3% more crit than I and seem to get around 5-10% more crits on SF and wrath over the duration of a fight and i would suspect that is a huge reason my dps is very inconsistent. Although i don't quite have the access to gear like some players I would hazard a guess i just need to swap more haste for crit gear as it comes available.

No FM. I think no Totem of Wrath either. Here's tonight, same thing:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (I was only in for the second half).

I wouldn't focus too much on haste vs. crit in gear. It's something we spend a lot of time on on the forum, but shifting a few points around on your gear is probably a red herring for diagnosing major DPS issues. Those usually have more to do with wasted DPS time in some fashion.

When T9 was starting to happening I was all confused about what gear to upgrade to what, so I decided to play around with the optimizer in rawr with the gear that would be quite available to me. Say you are in a guild that at least can take normal ToTC25, then the legs from Anub'arak is some pretty nice itemization (Leggings of the Awakening - Item - World of Warcraft, exists in 258 version as well). The optimizer ended up telling me to use T9.5 gloves + chest, T8.5 head + T8.0 shoulders (I didn't expect my shoulder to drop on yogg anytime soon).. well, I trust it enough to go for that.

(other optimization was as: nonhit spirit belt, nonhit spirit boots, nonhit nonspirit bracers (bejeweled wizards bracers), hit cloak, one hit ring and the other one with spirit, staff with no hit or spirit, hit neck)

Wasted dps time... hmm. Hard to think of a time in which time is wasted, although i have been working on refreshing my dots only right before they expire, maybe getting in 1 or 2 more casts at best I have a hard time thinking of any such situation. Some fights require a certain amount of movement and for the most part it can be predicted. Knowing this even and especially in Naxx i was able to use this to my advantage and squeeze all I could out of my casts between moving.
Another thing I would be curious to know is if the duration of the fight can have an affect on the total dps of a fight. My guild is slowing progressing and is not nearly as well geared as many on top servers but i wonder if the marginal upgrades I've seen in a few places would really make up all the difference of if having all your dps players on that very same level would elevate the numbers some.

Did you happen to take a look at my stats? I think we would be very close on sp during a raid situation but other than that the big difference i see is the difference in haste and crit. And do you think that with the way eclipse is set up that stacking haste rather than crit is really a minor dps point? I don't know the math, so i guess I'd have to take someone elses word for it. Does it really boil down to luck, or is it just something I missed?

As far as spellpower, discounting the lightweave embroidery proc, in a raid situation given the trinkets are stacked to full he would have 194 more spellpower than you. I would call that somewhat significant, not to mention he then also has the lightweave embroidery proc.

Lightweave embroidery sucks imo. Think of it in fights like hard freya, hard mimiron and yoggy p3 or pretty much all the hardmodes where you have to move all the time. Random procs are worth nothing when they occur while moving. Thats why I prefer constant spell power.

You cant calculate lightweave embroidery proc as constant sp upgrade.

And I completely agree with Arawethion. Gemming aint that big deal when it comes to major dps losses while keeping dps time as close to 100% as possible is. Good DPS is a result of knowing the encounter inside out, planning your cooldown usage, movement patterns and generally thinking 10 seconds ahead all the time. On top of that you need to be relentless with the DPS, smash those buttons, dont move more than nescessary, refresh dots while moving, pump illustration and broodmother up before you pull etc etc. Little things add up.

For example when we started practising hardmode mimiron everyones dps pretty much sucked but as we learned our tanks kiting patterns, how the fires work, when to use cooldowns etc we are doing much much higher dps. Its a learning curve that needs to be done on each encounter to master it.