Good god people, stop shitting up this thread. Half of the last page is total garbage. This is not the place for simple loot lists.

Roughly how much dps stats are you losing Beef?

I recently grabbed a couple valorous token PvP items, gemmed with stam and enchanted the same and it just didn't seem worthwhile, i'll edit this with the exact numbers once I get home. I do want to be at the 25k mark for things like Freya and Mimiron.

I agree with humbaba on all the listings of BiS/trinket discussions, there's another topic for that debate i'm pretty sure.

If I were to swap out the spellpower/stam gems (just four of them really) and replace them with ones that purely maximize damage (making sure to get two blues), I would give up 48 stamina for 18 spellpower and 16 spirit, which will equate to another 5 spell damage, working under the 30% spellpower spirit conversion.

The leg enchant works out to be 6 spellpower versus 30 stamina before kings.

I must say I don't find health a problem currently, Freya doesn't seem to be a particularly painful AoE fight other than the lashers which are only a problem if your mages forget to stop AoEing (and they do struggle with that concept I find) and the green plants she puts down in p2 but those you can move away from easily. I haven't done mimiron though so I can't say much about him. Currently i have around 22k health fully raid buffed, though I do find that healing myself instead of waiting for healers to do it helps because i'm convinced they're all out to get me.

Also on the note of people and their BiS gear lists, it's all good and well putting items like the flare of the heavens in your set but its a hard mode item from the 2nd last boss in the instance, seems a tad bit early to have your eyes set on such a prize. Isn't it far more logical to first make a BiS list using only normal mode loot?

You can't really compare the health requirements on hard modes to normal modes. The raid damage is in a whole different ballpark, and Werebeef specifically mentioned that this advice was for hard modes. The raid damage from Freya with all 3 elders up is nothing short of insane. Haven't tried Mimiron hard mode, but that seems even worse. Even Thorim, which is arguably the easiest hard mode, has some hefty bursts at times.

It's the hardmodes that need HP. [efb, page]

And yeah, I maintain two BiS lists personally, one with 239's and one without. With the hit cap so much in play, it's important to have a sense of which items are going to be most useful in the reasonably near future.

That said, I don't see the point of posting all these gear lists. It's purely a function of the current state of theorycraft and/or the poster's output from Rawr or something. Keep this thread about spec/glyphs/rotations, because anytime that stuff is decided, picking out gear is obvious.

So if OF proc off spells, I wonder if it would be worth finding 3 points to move into it for ulduar. Considering all the spell attacks that could proc it..

Flame Leviathan: N/A
Ignis: Flame Jets - Only cast about once every 40 seconds, so in a 4.5 min fight thats 7 times. 15% chance proc on 7 spells = probably not worth it.
Razorscale: Fireball, Chain Lightning, Wing Buffet - Only the fireballs aren't avoidable, and considering that they can hit any 1/25 people and the duration she actually spends in the air = probably not worth it.
XT: Gravity Bomb, Light Bomb, Tantrum - might be viable for this fight
Iron Council: largely variable depending on diffuculty... Death Rune, Chain Lightning, High Voltage, Lightning Whirl. Most of these are easy to avoid = probably not worth it.
Kologarn: Eyebeam, Shockwave, Stone Grip? By the time you get released from stone grip Of will be largely waisted. Possibly viable due to unavoidable shockwaves and badly run eyebeams?
Auriaya: Horifying Screech, Sonic Screech, Feral Spirit. Possibly viable, however the fear will cut into the 10seconds of OF uptime, and the feral spirits will lock out either nature or arcane for the duration aswell.
Hodir: Biting Cold, Freeze. Probably a great fight for OF due to the frequency of these 2 attacks, so long as they proc OF?
Freya: Sunbeam, Natures Fury, Conservators Grip, Detonating Lashers, Tidal Wave, Lightning Lash. Ground Tremor. Many sources of attacks being mostly unaviodable may make OF viable.
Thorim: Chain Lightning, Forked Lightning, Blizzard, Frostbolt Volley, Frost Nova. Most should be avoided, OF would be better on hard mode clearly though
Mimiron: Napalm Shell, Heat Wave, Rapid Burst. OF likely good on this fight since most attacks are unavoidable
General: Shadow Crash, Mark of the Faceless, Profound Darkness. Only profound darkness should hit you, and thats only for hard mode = probably not worth it
Yogg: My knowledge of this fight is too limited to comment.

My verdict: seems to be very situational, great sometimes, usless others. While imagining having a 10% dmg increase with eclipse and heroism up seems like a wet dream, the practicality leads me to say the 3 points could be better spent on a talent that gives more consistent benefits.

Thoughts?

Lots of talk about Solar vs Lunar recently, but the last time I saw someone suggest alternating spells and taking whatever Eclipse happens was way back at the beginning of WotLK.

Assumption: Right now, Rawr puts Lunar and Solar Eclipse for me within 3 DPS of eachother and although Lunar has a DPM edge it's not huge. So, this is for any case where neither has a clear advantage.

Method: During cooldown cast whichever nuke is slightly better for the situation, Starfire likely since it is better efficiency, extends Moonfire, and should be close to equal DPS. Between cooldowns alternate Wrath/Starfire until proc, then go with whichever you get.

Advantages: Less care needed to proc the correct Eclipse as we really don't care. No "wasted" cast of the wrong spell immediately after the cast before we can switch as we're always casting the correct one already.

Disadvantages: Doesn't make as full use of the +damage to SF/W Idols and not applicable where one Eclipse has a clear advantage.

So, does using this method make sense? Anyone else considering this or already doing it?

I'm having a really tough time deciding on a few talent points after 3.1.2.

I used to put my leftover points from not getting intensity (in t7) into genesis, but i'm not entirely sure if that's a good decision anymore.

Comparitively;

Brambles - On our last Council kill my treants did 58,546 damage, 2.9% of my overall. 15% onto this with 3/3 is .435% damage increase, seems very weak. (This is not including Thorns)

Owlkin Frenzy - The same fight I got hit 52 times (Assuming green runes proc it since they don't actually "Hit"), assuming the 15% proc rate and assuming 0 overlap (which is sort've up-playing the talent). It would come to 7.8 procs, rounded to 8 for simplicity. 80 seconds of uptime agains't a 423 second fight. 19% uptime. Basically a 1.9% damage increase

Genesis - 11.9% of my damage on the same Iron Council kill came from Insect Swarm, 9% from Moonfire. The hits/crits on moonfire I think are low enough to just avoid for the sake of not doing any more math for such a small change in outcome. 3% of this comes out to a .627%

My math might be a little off from things like blue runes, having to aoe Summon Runes. (As to not get the full benefit from Genesis.) Also the Genesis should be slightly lower since I forgot to take off 1% DoT damage that I already had in the talent.

Also I think during the somewhat hectic of a Phase 3 trying to keep aoe spamming the Runes of Summoning I probably forgot to pop treants again, which would only double their potency to .87% for the 3 points, it pushes it ahead of Genesis but still behind Frenzy.

Now i'm looking for any of these talents over the very obvious larger dps increasing talents like IIS, CF, or MSS. This is merely just leftover points from my spec, point for point Owlkin Frenzy might be a good option for Ulduar. Iron Council I feel is a good fight for this kind of math because it's one of the least benefitting to Owlkin Frenzy.

Let me know if my math is off at all - I usually leave this sort of thing to the guru's.
Here is the WMO combatlog if anyone would like to review my numbers.
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Genesis is actually even worse than it looks, since it stacks additively with Glyph of Insect Swarm and Glyph of Moonfire. It's closer to 0.1% DPS per point.

Brambles will actually be stronger that that based only on its effect on Treants. The damage provided by Thorns on even a single tank is larger than both of these effects; a quick back-of-the envelope calculation puts it at around 20 DPS per point per tank.

Owlkin Frenzy I just discussed in a post; it will add roughly (5/X)% DPS per point, where X is the mean number of seconds between proc-eligible hits. So if you take damage every 10 seconds, you can expect around 0.5% per point.

This is very much a personal preference, but once you're comparing Brambles to Frenzy I'd recommend taking Typhoon and Gale Winds. Once you glyph the knockback out of it an extra instant spell is very handy in most fights, and the extra aoe capability shines in the admittedly few places you'd need it.