I got the 4t8 this week, and I've been trying to maximize it. I haven't heard about any incoming fix on the SF casting bug (SF cast eating the free SF). I've switched to solar eclipsing, and I'm using the wrath idol, because I'm basically trying to cast SF as little as possible. I'm now gearing away from haste, to get beneath the solar haste cap.

However, I'm wondering how much I'm gimping myself to make use of the added dps from the free starfires. I've read up on the math, and it always depends on a SF cast *not* eating the 4t8 proc, which it pretty much *always* will, if you're using a SF-based rotation (even if it's solar ecl with SF filler).

My question for everyone is this: Does the 4t8 SF casting bug *need* to get fixed for 4t8 to be a real benefit?

Adoriele, you've successfully extracted all actual content from my post and reduced it to the bare minimum: "do sumfin borked need fixx?/ YA STOOPID LOLO"

My question is: is the dps loss from using a wrath-based rotation, SF'ing only to proc a solar eclipse, greater than the dps gain of the 4t8 proc?

While the answer still may be the same (i.e. "Yes"), it's only an idiotic question if you don't actually read it. It may be a simple question, or, an easy one to answer for those who have a richer understanding of mathematical modeling, but neither of those constitute idiocy, and none of the above warrant insult. (Especially when the last few pages of this thread are useless repetition of ancient knowledge (yes, owlkin frenzy is situationally useful; yes, genesis is crap).)

After searching EJ meticulously, in addition to searching all of the loot databases (Thott, Wowwiki, Wowhead), The Grasps of Reason, Treads of the False Oracle, and the Conductive Seal all show stats, but do not state where these items drop? Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Probably Algalon, but there won't be any confirmation until they actually start dropping.

You don't really need to be a theory crafter to understand that if the proc gets eaten without the benefit then it's a useless bonus. 5% procrate just amplifies that way of thinking, even 15% probably won't make up for it. Especially since a lot of fights have haste mechanics or bloodlust/heroism included when SF will be your primary spell.

The only fight it comes to mind as perhaps shining 4pct8 is P2 of Yogg-Saron where -sometimes- I have 5-6 Insect Swarms ticking and there is a lot of movement between Crusher Tentacles.

The term you used Ancient Knowledge is exactly right, just because things didn't add up in Naxx/Maly/Sarth doesn't really mean they will be useless in Ulduar. I plan on going thru some WMO reports to see how often I get hit with something to see the usefulness and which fight OF might shine in. Just because it's been looked thru once doesn't mean that will remain a consistent forever. Remember when Eclipse first came out?

Ok I've been working my way through this forum trying to find information that I can use. The problem I have is this. I try to use the info here and then get people telling me I'm doing things either right but need to improve or horribly wrong. It's to the point that I sometimes don't want to even start wow. Can someone please help me figure out a proper rotation based on my spec and gear? or perhaps in simple terms tell me where to adjust things to bring my dps in line with ulduarr or naxx 25? Below is a link to my wow armory listing.
The World of Warcraft Armory

Until the TTT article is up (which is in the early stages), there isn't a great place to learn from scratch. I think I'll try to put up a temporary "Moonkin for Dummies" tonight or tomorrow which will at least contain the basic info updated for 3.1.1.

Your spec/gear has a few significant errors (no Glyph of Insect Swarm, Dreamstate, Int/MP5 gems). But your DPS is truly deficient, it's likely a problem with your rotation.

Pretty much all gemming should be straight spell power gems, except your meta requirement.

You have 3 points into each of the 3 regen talents, that is entirely too many wasted points, I would start by dropping Dreamstate and putting those points into Imp Insect Swarm. If you still find yourself not having mana problems, drop 2 points from Moonglow for Imp Moonfire.

I would also update your enchants to top dps enchants, things like Vitality never belong on a caster dps' boots, it's pretty universal that you should get Icewalker. Some get the speed/stam enchant, but that's a matter of flavor. 10 stats to Chest is a minor increase, 63 spell power to weapon is a decent increase. Getting the spell power/spirit leg enchant will yeild more dps than the stam one, but it's pretty minimal.

Yes dropping either Innervate or Starfire for Insect Swarm glyph will yeild a pretty hefty dps increase.

Edit: Looking at your first post you said you read the threads in this forum, all of this is pretty well covered.

I have. but it's late and I'm frustrated with my failure to do the dps I want to.

with your stats a lunar rotation is pretty much the only option...your crit chance is too low for wrath to be viable and your haste is about 110 or so over give or take. Go with a IFF->IS->MF->wrath until eclipse->starfire until eclipse is gone->reapply dots and starfire down the eclipse GCD and repeat. Also, the 2 blue gems you should use are purified twilight opals (9sp 8spirit) and you should NEVER gem for intellect. Unless you need hit or you have to make a meta requirement, you should probably gem for straight spellpower, especially in your belt socket like that. Your enchants are also not right. First off, get the sp/crit rating shoulder enchant...moonkins dont need mp5...idk where you got that idea. 63 sp to your weapon would be a decent increase, and you should get a different boot enchant. You should not be enchanting/gemming for mp5 (just to reiterate). Go with +12hit and +12 crit or tuskars vitality. With that you should increase your dps by quite a bit. Hope this helps.

Bolverick,
looking on your talents. You also should consider to reduce your mana regen talents.
If you have currently no mana problems reduce in the first step your TPs in Moonglow to 1/3 and check if this is working for you. Consider in the next step to reduce Intensity to 2/3 or 1/3 and check if you are still ok.
For raiders with full raid buffs this should be in general of no big problem.
If you have problems, just go back and put stepwise more TPs in Intensity, till you are happy.

Options for free TP to increase dps:
Gale Wind 2/2 --> it will significantly increase your aoe output.
Imp MF 2/2. (just a general minor increase)
Typhoon 1/1. (situational...consider also to use the glyph)

one further hint:
Damage UP time (minimum movement, keep DoTs rolling,etc) is the biggest factor to optimize DPS.

and one more:
Your total dps is not important if you contribute optimal to raid success by resurrecting key persons, buffing the raid during fight and doing damage at the right time.