Moonkin Raiding - Page 9

• Hamlet · 12/09/08, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

[Flask of the Frost Wyrm] is going to be better than any elixir combo at the moment, though if you'd prefer elixirs for whatever reason, your guesses are correct. Food buff, you'd want to use spellpower unless your haste is really low, which I sort of doubt it would be unless you are avoiding it for some reason.

If you're not hitcapped and willing to use Spices, I imagine hit food (Snapper) would be the best.

• Adoriele · 12/09/08, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

If you're not hitcapped and willing to use Spices, I imagine hit food (Snapper) would be the best.

40 hit's a huge chunk to be missing, though, you're likely going to be wasting a bit of that food where you can't waste any of our other stats. Granted, all hit comes in huge chunks now (HI2U [Dying Curse]), but I'd rather hit-cap from gear and use food to augment something else.

JEL · 12/09/08, 12:27 PM

Well.. Whats with the haste problem with wrath?

If i get a Wrath-Eclipse and spam wrath for 15s + have a bit critluck i often have NG activated...
With NG my Wrath ct is @ 0,75 or something with a 1s GCD

Isnt that a dps-loss compared with starfire eclipse with nearly constant 2,0s SFs?

Cause of that i dont see the point of twisting SF/Wrath until Eclipse procc - I´m doing more dmg with Wrath until eclipse :o

Another Point is the manainefficiency of wrath to make the SF-eclipse way better, isnt it?

Maybe i have a mistake in my thoughts, dunno :/

• Adoriele · 12/09/08, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by JEL

Well.. Whats with the haste problem with wrath?

If i get a Wrath-Eclipse and spam wrath for 15s + have a bit critluck i often have NG activated...
With NG my Wrath ct is @ 0,75 or something with a 1s GCD

Isnt that a dps-loss compared with starfire eclipse?

Cause of that i dont see the point of twisting SF/Wrath until Eclipse procc - doing more dmg with Wrath until eclipse :o

Another Point is the manainefficiency of wrath to make the SF-eclipse way better, isnt it?

Maybe i have a mistake in my thoughts, dunno :/

The idea behind twisting to proc Eclipse (Whee, a term that's better than swap!) is that you'll automagically be casting the correct spell when you proc it, without having to account for reaction time. This means that you don't waste time casting the wrong spell during Eclipse which could be a potentially large DPS boost. The trade-off is that you don't have true control over which Eclipse you get, so if one gives you more benefit than the other, you potentially lose out some part of the time. As with everything, it's something you'll need to figure out.

And no, Starfire-Eclipse is not always the best choice. It usually is, but not always.

Bloo Driver · 12/09/08, 1:57 PM

Originally Posted by Spink

Am I going crazy or did starfall lose almost all of it's bonus from spellpower last night? I went from stars hitting for about 1k to 540-580. Still rank 4 on my bar so not downranked or anything

I ran several instances last night, and this was happening through the whole night for me. It didn't seem consistent, though, so when numbers were popping up at around 600 I thought maybe it was a dot tick or something. However, seeing it a few too many times to dismiss, I picked through my combat log and found some interesting things. Not only was Starfall hitting for much less than it should, but Starfires were hitting for about 500. There was no resist message, either, it was just flat out hitting for 500 (give or take). This happened in all of the instances, so I can't think of any common thread between the mobs, and I hadn't seen any complaints about it until the one above.

My druid's armory is here, she just dinged 80 a few days ago so the gear isn't all that grand. I wasn't using anything out of the ordinary - just regular buffs of AI, Fort, Mark, and Commanding Shout now and again.

Incidentally, this also got me pretty much on everyone's "scrubs to ignore" list when I decided to pug Sartharion. At first I thought my DPS was abysmal (even considering my gear and a few bad choices on talents) and was about to just /wrist my way back to Resto, but then I caught this. Is this hitting anyone else at all?

Ailetha · 12/09/08, 2:45 PM

40 hit rating over the 46 Spell Power food

or the equivalent in gems:

40 Hit Rating + 9 Spell Power (3 Gem Slots x 2 Rigids + 1 Veiled) over 57 Spell Power (3 Gem Slots X Runed Scarlet Ruby of 19 SP each)

I would always go for using hit food to cap over using spell power. Ya, it would be kind of a pain to switch food if you ever needed to, but if you have to choose between one or the other, you will get more DPS from using hit food and putting non-hit stats in those gem slots. Blizzard itemized hit compared to other stats like this since 3.0 came out - you'll find that hit food will be better to use in every single case and will eek out a few more DPS stats for you than putting the same hit on your gear.

And no, Starfire-Eclipse is not always the best choice. It usually is, but not always.

If you have any haste buffs at all in your raid or in your spec, it is the best choice. Clipping will hurt your DPS over anything else you could do to mess up the rotation.

Originally Posted by hoffmand9

So I was looking over Rokaz's >5k patchwerk and was intrigued by the fact that his IS is averaging 6384 damage per cast if he is using nature's splendor and his MF is averaging 10844 damage per cast assuming nature's splendor and 3 starfires with the starfire glyph. His wraths are averaging 4882 per cast and his starfires are averaging 10086 per cast. This makes me wonder if using IS at all is even worth casting other than when you have to move because of missing out on the chance to proc NG or eclipse or cutting into eclipse time. MF is obviously ok as long as you're not clipping eclipse and not worrying about it falling off if eclipse is on CD since it can proc NG.

He was probably casting IS just to improve the DPS of Wrath. Casting Wrath at all at that level is a huge DPS loss - you have to cast it to get the good buff, so it's ideal to boost the damage that crappy spell is doing however much you can.

Layeth · 12/09/08, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by dukes

He means 1% from a Draenei. As all Shamans must be Draenei, this equates to effectively the same thing, although all Draenei give the aura (see: Heroic Presence).

For Horde you should be planning on 10% hit rather than the 9% that alliance can get away with when a Draenei is around.

Please be aware that Heroic Presence is a group-only buff and not raid. Also must be within 30 yards of them to get the buff.

ToraTiggy · 12/09/08, 6:59 PM

Originally Posted by zinc

with

IS > MF > Wrath till eclipse procs > SF till iCD is up > IS > Wrath till eclips procs...

Starfire idol
1. 3 Eclipse procs 2632 dps OOM in 2:29
2. 3 Eclipse procs 2321 dps OOM in 2:05
3. 2 Eclipse procs 2228 dps OOM in 2:29

Wrath idol
1. 4 Eclipse procs 2770 dps OOM in 2:35
2. 3 Eclipse procs 2331 dps OOM in 2:18
3. 4.5 Eclipse procs 2797 dps OOM in 2:58

most dmg done on all 6 tests was Starfire

Wait I'm confused, by Wrath idol do you mean [Idol of Steadfast Renewal] versus the Starfire idol [Idol of the Shooting Star]? I don't see how either idol would explain the difference in your Eclipse procs (2.6 vs 3.8 average) or was that just luck of the draw between your two tests?

Ashaera · 12/09/08, 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by Layeth

Please be aware that Heroic Presence is a group-only buff and not raid. Also must be within 30 yards of them to get the buff.

Its a raidbuff. - Edit: Me being abit to stubborn, just disregard this.

-----
Ailetha -> Hitfood is indeed more itemization points - But realistically you will have a hard time not capping hit, or bringing your need to the actual range where you benifit enough from the hit food to make it better.

We strongly disagree on how to use wrath - I use starfire to proc eclipse & spam wrath during it. Its not a bad spell & your view on it is by no means allways the right answer.

zinc · 12/09/08, 9:36 PM

yes those 2 idols is what i was testing with, the eclipse procs were just a matter of luck

Vidandric · 12/10/08, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Ashaera

Its a raidbuff.

Wrong, it's a party buff, with a 30 yard range, like stated above.

Ashaera · 12/10/08, 2:35 AM

Originally Posted by Vidandric

Wrong, it's a party buff, with a 30 yard range, like stated above.

I'm embarrassed now! I'll edit my above post to prevent confusing people.

Daylis · 12/10/08, 6:11 AM

The number of 6 tests is just too low to give a fair estimation. Too much impact of RNG.

About the food... yes, 40hit food would indeed be most optimal, but as said before, you'll have to struggle to keep yourself 40hit below cap of 262/3 (realisticaly to assume a SP in raid).
There's also a mandatory 10sec waiting for it to take effect before boss engaging, missing out on those lovely Great Feasts everyone loves so much. You also need 3 fish to make 1 hit food. Even if you dont wipe much (farm content), that's a lot of fishing to be done, not to mention spices spent on it.

I guess it isnt that much of a hassle on farmed content, but i just cannot imagine i'd bear the tedius of it on progression raids. Unfortunately, there's where you need that extra edge the most ;(

I'm sticking with great feasts.

Eilt · 12/10/08, 9:03 AM

I find that while gearing up the hit food is a great way to get to the cap. You only need ~8.5% of the 10% needed if you are eating hit food. So until I get more hit gear to drop I will be using the hit food. Also worth mentioning the "feast" is only 35 spellpower, if you want 46 spellpower you will have to use spices to make a single food not a raid one.

Druidowar · 12/10/08, 9:11 AM

Hey I'm new here. I was just wondering if it would be worth everyone posting how much dps they can do unbuffed on a test dummy because it's easier to compare and improve on dps that way i'd imagine since conditions never change, unlike raids

I seem to struggle to push past 3000 in my gear.