Allright so I got a couple of questions and mistakes I would like to resolve asap. I have been raiding with 2p t8 & 2p t9 for a while now, maybe 1month and I still think this is the best comp on most encounters.

Something I'm not confortable with, even after reading the TTT thread is: with me being way over the haste cap at the moment (650+), should I aim for a certain amount of crit before going for full SP? I didn't really understood if there is a minimum of crit to aquire before starting to gem full sp (raid buffed I'm at 32.37% atm).

And yeah, is it just me or it's very hard to find items without spirit and haste but alot of crit & SP? Most of leather items without haste seem to be for resto only.. Also I don't understand how some people have troubles getting to haste cap. I mean with all the items I keep in bank at the moment, I can go up to 983haste if I want. That wouldn't be useful at all tho but it's a proof that haste is really not a problem atm imo. Mages can laugh with their 1200 soft cap!

Also Rawr says that my trinket [Pandora's Plea] is one of the best after [Flare of the Heavens] & [Reign of the Unliving]

Should I keep it instead of [Abyssal Rune] since I'm way over the haste cap already?

Same concept applied to my other trinket [Mithril Pocketwatch] I believe?

Thanks for the help in advance, really appreciated. :]

What part of the TTT article implies that crit will ever be worth more than spellpower?

Nowhere. My point is, from what I understood in the TTT thread, that there seem to be a certain amount of crit to reach before going SP all the way (including hit + haste cap reached already).

More exactly my question would be: What is the "enough" in this sentence? Could you replace it by a percentage?

Thanks again.

At least if I don't completely misunderstand the TTT article.

Moonkin Aura + Mage/Wlock crit buff + Totem of Wrath/Master Poisoner/Heart of the Crusader + Moonfire(assuming talented) + Farie Fire(assuming talented) + Nature's Majesty + Lunar Eclipse

Without 2P T8
5 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 4 + 30 = 53%

With 2P T8
5 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 4 + 45 = 68%

Thus, to cap your crit for lunar eclipse without 2P T8 will be 47% crit and with 2P T8 will be 32% in a fully equipped raid.

You're misreading the article. There is not magic crit number to aim for before you start gemming for sp - you should *always* be gemming for sp. SP is worth more than crit at any gear level.

>With enough crit rating and the 2T8 set bonus, your crit chance during Lunar Eclipse will hit 100%, reducing the value of subsequent crit rating.

The sentence you quoted (above) is the one that explains the 'soft crit cap', the point past which crit suddenly drastically reduces in value. The actual weights of those stats depend on your gear (and I don't feel like setting up a sim for you), but it is very likely that haste outweighs crit past that cap, and even possible for *spirit* to do so.

If you need an explanation of how to interpret stat-weights, pm me.

i'v been searching for the best specc for boomkins for a while. and i see that noone specc genesis. and instead specc Moonglow or intesity. or even gale winds ( wich is a good talent for anub ) but maby not for other fights.

Why not chose Genesis wich give your Moonfire and is a litle bit more dmg??
I dont have any problem whit my mana wen i have replenishment in the raid so i dont see why i should specc moonglow or intesity.



Armory : The World of Warcraft Armory

No, because the crit cap is not 100% but 100-4,6= 95.4%. so you should be over the crit cap at the moment.
Drop the tier8 and go to 42.4% crit is the way to go.

You are surely happy to provide some sources on this "100-4.6", and what that weird random number really means from your point of view?

Genesis is the worst dps increase talent, per talent point.

I believe McAnus is referring to Caster-to-Boss Crit Suppression which has observed to be roughly 2.5% per here and here. I believe 4.6% is the Melee-to-Boss Crit Suppression.

The reason is that your DoTs don't deal that much damage. I remember having had ~15% of my damage done by MF and IS. Increasing 15% by 1% would be a 0.15% dps gain. And if I remember correctly, Brambles had a slightly higher DPS increase, around 15 DPS while Genesis provided only 10 DPS (both per point). You could consider speccing Typhoon (damage while running) or Gale Winds (Anub25h) as well.

Also, Genesis is an additive gain. Moonfire ticks already have additive gains from IMF, Moonfury, and the Moonfire Glyph. Insect Swarm has an additive gain from the glyph.

At the top end, MF ticks average around 2500 (average of crit and non-crit) and IS ticks average about 1500.

Add 5/5 genesis and the MF multiplier increases from 195% to 200%. IS multiplier increases from 130% to 135%.

2500*200/195 = 2564. DPS increase is 64/3 = 21
1500*135/130 = 1558. DPS increase is 58/2 = 29

For five talent points, and 100% DoT uptime, you gain 50 DPS (out of around 9000). 10 DPS per talent point is really weak. Talents that look bad can compete with that. Still, if you have no mana issues, using 1 Genesis + 2 IMF to reach tier 3 makes sense.

I've been thinking about 25 H Anub, and I've been thinking about speccing into 3/3 Intensity for whenever I actually have the chance to do the fight. My reasoning is that the 50% mana regen while casting will delay the inevitable going oom while going through Hurricanes. From a build that I've made so far, I took 3 points out of Improved IS and put those 3 points into Intensity. My question is though, when it gets down to P3 where you have to start putting out more damage on Anub, would those 3 points I put out of IIS be really needed in P3, and would it be worth it to get that mana regen talent for the loss of 3/3 IIS.

Build
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I suggest using Hurricane whenever OoC procs. Use an addon which shows you the buff or something like that. I used MSBT with a sound so I wouldn't waste OoC while reapplying MF or IS.

When I went Moonkin on our Anub'Arak, I had 0/3 Dreamstate/Intensity while using OoC. I don't think there was one time while hurricane was up that I didn't get an OoC proc. I kept up Moonfire and IS. My glyphs were Moonfire (Periodic Increase), Starfall and Focus. Kept on moonfire for the Idol and IS for the 3% debuff. I timed most of what I could well with NG and hurricane and OoC, dipping to about 60% but regenerating most of it during P2. I used [Crazy Alchemist's Potion] during P3 when I got the debuff, along with barkskin. With my guilds DPS, I had no problem maintaining mana efficiency. But I also was in some of my resto gear, like [Boots of the Unrelenting Storm] gemmed with Luminous.

Note: If you are not on 3% IS duty, then don't put it up unless OoC isn't up.

Ok, people still talk all the time about this 2T8 v. 4T9 business. I'm going to run some numbers in my spreadsheet to make sure my sig is accurate. First, in my current Moonkin gear (armory, some of the time). Base stats: 3040 sp (including stacked trinkets and Lightweave average), 777 crit, 263 hit, 489 haste, 556 spirit, 1174 int, all raid buffs (including a 420 sp Demonic Pact).

Result: 8568 DPS.

Now, change my T8 legs/gloves for T9.258 legs/gloves. I gain 46 hit from doing this, so let's simultaneously swap my 239 hit neck for a 258 Val'kyr neck (very generously). Net change from all this, according to wowhead item comparator:

-3 hit
-7 crit
+66 int
+113 spi
+2 haste
+95 sp
-2T8 set bonus
+4T9 set bonus

Result: 8497 DPS.

So, even throwing in a completely gratuitous neck upgrade just for the sake of a hit-neutral, haste-neutral, and socket-neutral comparison, I've lost 70 DPS upgrading to the 258 set.

--------------

For fun, let's mock up some BiS sets (those of you who love throwing BiS lists all over the forum, this is the closest you'll see me come). Some compromises made to make the comparisons parallel.

With 2T8:
Head: T9
Neck: Cry of the Val'kyr
Shoulders: T8
Back: Aethas' Intensity
Chest: T9
Wrist: Autumn Willow
Hands: T8
Waist: Pale Thorns
Legs: Awakening
Feet: Harsh Winter
Rings: Firestorm/Lurid
Trinkets:Reign x2
Weapon: Barb of Tarasque
Offhand: Mystifying Charm

3320 sp, 741 crit, 268 hit, 470 haste, 612 spi, 1406 int.

DPS: 9745.


4T9--same as above, but swap in T9 shoulders/gloves, and Talisman of Heedless Sins:

3393 sp, 763 crit, 268 hit, 546 haste, 602 spi, 1455 int.

DPS: 9637.

Yup, a loss of 108 DPS. All's well, 4T9 still sucks.

SimulationCraft has 4T9 just 35dps behind 2+2
Don't mixup "OMG 4T9 SUCKS ASS" with "2T8 is just the most overpowered setbonus ingame"

Yeah, I know. And it's worth keeping in mind that at Anub, where you're AoEing a lot, you want the stats more than the set bonus anyway. But the point is that people still regularly underestimate 2T8 for stationary DPS--4T9.H is close, but the 245 isn't even. I was just confirming and reemphasizing.

And I'm also curious why Simcraft and Rawr value 2T8 less than WC. Rawr was valuing 4T9.H as higher than 2/2, which is irritating, but as usual with Rawr, the user can't ever tell why it's doing what it's doing.

Is Simcraft taking into account the shortened mean cycle length due to WiseEclipse when you have a higher Lunar crit rate?

I wonder if part of it is because I don't do WiseEclipse in Rawr. Would that inflate the value of the set bonus? If so, that is probably your explanation right there.

It would absolutely increase 2pt8's value since it would shave 3-5 seconds of non-eclipse time off per full eclipse rotation.

Simcraft does not cancel buffs if you mean that