Moonkin Raiding - Page 94

Poromu · 05/25/09, 1:39 PM

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Is the spec I ran for our hard mode attempts, looking above it's identical to Fusion's Moonkin. Obviously anything with Moonfire's or Wrath is basically pointless. Unglyphed IS only when moving before Surge of Darkness. Otherwise spam SF in crash for easy 12-14k dps.

Owlkin Frenzy procs off of Mark of the Faceless (which is not completely avoidable all the time, only warlocks/mages/hunters can consistently avoid damaging the raid) so this is one hard mode it is most definately worth picking up over things like Eclipse that you'll never try to proc or IIS that you'll never MF before SF or wrath after IS.

Edited for accuracy.

ninor · 05/26/09, 3:54 AM

Are you sure Profound Darkness procs Owlkin Frenzy? According to Funkychicken, who wrote the moonkin part of the Fusion guide, it does not. And I was under the impression that auras usually did not proc this effect. Since you will have a lot of spare points anyway, I guess it's worth taking Owlkin Frenzy just for the occasional Mark damage.

Poromu · 05/26/09, 4:32 AM

Looking at the report I was wondering why OF procs seemed low for the ammount of times I took damage from Mark/PD. You're correct about Profound Darkness not proccing it. As you stated though it's still worthwhile since there's really no other options.

Also just to note, I didn't unglyph IS so I basically just didn't even cast it at all since the DPET of Starfire pretty much buries everything else in crash.

Selini · 05/26/09, 9:25 AM

The other moonkin in my guild that's been on the current round of tries is swearing blind that eclipse is worth it on that fight as "it takes 4-5 wraths to proc it"

That said he goes oom when the add is at around 30% so I am not sure what he is doing wrong. I haven't been to the fight on HM at all so I have no idea what to expect.

Really though is eclipse remotely worth it even if you could rely on having the proc up asap?

sulliwan · 05/26/09, 9:40 AM

Originally Posted by Selini

The other moonkin in my guild that's been on the current round of tries is swearing blind that eclipse is worth it on that fight as "it takes 4-5 wraths to proc it"

That said he goes oom when the add is at around 30% so I am not sure what he is doing wrong. I haven't been to the fight on HM at all so I have no idea what to expect.

Really though is eclipse remotely worth it even if you could rely on having the proc up asap?

If you are able to stand in crash for the full duration of eclipse, then yes, on average proccing eclipse is worth it.

Basically, casting wrath instead of starfire in a shadowcrash is around a 42% dps loss, eclipse with 2p t8 is a 45% dps increase for starfire, on average it should take between 4-5 seconds to get an eclipse proc, so you are trading 4-5 sec of 42% lower dps for 15sec of 45% higher dps, which is a net gain.

princeinexile · 05/26/09, 10:17 AM

We worked on Vesax hard mode for a couple hours last night. I used the Fusion Moonkin spec. Owlkin Frenzy never procced once in all those attempts, so it doesn't seem like an especially good expenditure of points.

Next time I'm going to try to switch those points up and take Eclipse again. I was doing sustained 10-12k dps with straight-up Starfire spam (and popping trees twice); on our next round (tonight, probably), I'll try to go ahead and proc lunar Eclipse and see if I end up doing better or worse, and how that affects my mana management (and threat management, for that matter).

Korhaug · 05/26/09, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Selini

The other moonkin in my guild that's been on the current round of tries is swearing blind that eclipse is worth it on that fight as "it takes 4-5 wraths to proc it"

That said he goes oom when the add is at around 30% so I am not sure what he is doing wrong. I haven't been to the fight on HM at all so I have no idea what to expect.

Really though is eclipse remotely worth it even if you could rely on having the proc up asap?

There are several reasons he might be going OOM. A WWS of those fights would be very helpful for analysis. There's a shortage of hard mode logs on the WWS thread.

Another option on that fight is to spam SF normally, and use the Solar eclipse if/when you get it. Inside shadow crash a solar eclipsed wrath does about 20% less damage then SF, but it's 40% more mana efficient. It's worth considering for people who can't find other ways not to run out of mana before the animus is down.

Poromu · 05/26/09, 11:41 AM

It's easy to say proccing eclipse is worth it on Vezax, but the fact of the matter is you can use those 4-5 seconds casting Wrath to proc Eclipse and then have to move for Crash or get Marked and lose a lot of the Eclipse up time or all of it.

It's not really worth even risking losing DPM for possible DPS until the Animus spawns anyways. Not to mention Eclipse can proc on your first cast or your third or your thirteenth.

It's just more reliable to just Starfire spam. It's our highest DPM/DPS in Shadow Crash.

Using your Solar Eclipse as mentioned above sounds very viable too. However if you're running oom, you probably let some Starfires get off as the pool despawned.

phylus · 05/26/09, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Korhaug

Another option on that fight is to spam SF normally, and use the Solar eclipse if/when you get it. Inside shadow crash a solar eclipsed wrath does about 20% less damage then SF, but it's 40% more mana efficient. It's worth considering for people who can't find other ways not to run out of mana before the animus is down.

A solar eclipse cycle in shadow crash would be sooooo frustrating. Wrath gets haste capped like no other in shadow crashes. It sucks. I would not wish a solar eclipse in shadow crash upon my worst enemy.

• Hamlet · 05/26/09, 5:47 PM

I was planning to start trying Starfire, but 2T8 Wrath when Solar Eclipse procced. It will either be that or straight Starfire spam, will have to wait and see whether DPS or mana efficiency seems more important.

Cynex · 05/26/09, 6:29 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

I was planning to start trying Starfire, but 2T8 Wrath when Solar Eclipse procced. It will either be that or straight Starfire spam, will have to wait and see whether DPS or mana efficiency seems more important.

Mana is more important. If a moonkin goes full out on vezax he will be oom when add spawns, with moonglow and ooc.

• Hamlet · 05/26/09, 7:23 PM

Originally Posted by Cynex

Mana is more important. If a moonkin goes full out on vezax he will be oom when add spawns, with moonglow and ooc.

So then presumably the right rotation is Solar Eclipse with no DoT's and no other spells (except FoN)?

Maghun · 05/26/09, 9:57 PM

with 2t8 wouldn't proccing lunar be high dps + mana since you should have close to 100% crit rate almost every spell will be a free cast since it would crit.

When eclipse is on cooldown you could just not cast spells as your dps would of been so high during eclipse that it shouldn't really matter.

• Hamlet · 05/26/09, 11:22 PM

No Moonkin Form regen on Vezax.

Felform · 05/26/09, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

So then presumably the right rotation is Solar Eclipse with no DoT's and no other spells (except FoN)?

having killed vezax a couple of times in both normal and heroic modes ive found the best rotation is to simply not have one
spam starfire 100% of the time, doing anything else is sadly just too mana consuming

go all out until you are about 13k mana left and start conserving and only keeping up earth and moon
after animus is down you have to resort to restraining yourself for only earth and moon uptime or call for a soulstone