Moonkin Raiding - Page 96

Orin · 11/12/09, 12:33 PM

I suspect Blizzard will nerf 2t8 bonus if people actually continue to use it instead of T10/T9 combos. I'm surprised they haven't already, they did it to the Resto 4t8.

thedopefishlives · 11/12/09, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

So it seems we'll have to wait for 4pc t10 before we start breaking the other set bonuses, is that right? Or do we need the higher level T10 set pieces assuming they exist?

It's looking like we'll probably need the higher level T10 set pieces. I don't think it would take much of a buff to the 4T10 to make it worth using over 2T8+2T9, but I haven't investigated that far yet.

EDIT: Through some playing around, buffing 4T10 to 7% of the spell damage for the dot would make it pull roughly even with a 2T8+2T9 setup. Anything higher than that, and 4T10-264 would be worth getting. I don't really see how they could cleanly change the 2T10 set bonus, since it's tied to Clearcasting, so it looks like we'll be sitting on 2T8+2T9 until we can get the 4-piece.

Erdluf · 11/12/09, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Orin

I suspect Blizzard will nerf 2t8 bonus if people actually continue to use it instead of T10/T9 combos. I'm surprised they haven't already, they did it to the Resto 4t8.

It might happen, but Resto Druids were widely considered to be overpowered in Ulduar.

I don't think that is true of Moonkin at t7, t8, or t9. I don't see any reason to expect it in t10.

If that is correct, it seems like buffing 2t10 (which is perhaps 3-4% on a PW fight) or 4t10 would be more appropriate.

A 2t10 buff might be in the form of fixing Omen of Clarity, so that spells see 3.5 ppm (off of base cast times, Starfire=20% proc) rather then the current 3.5 ppm (off of 1s cat auto attack, SF=5.8% proc).

• Hamlet · 11/12/09, 2:12 PM

Originally Posted by Erdluf

It might happen, but Resto Druids were widely considered to be overpowered in Ulduar.

I don't think that is true of Moonkin at t7, t8, or t9. I don't see any reason to expect it in t10.

If that is correct, it seems like buffing 2t10 (which is perhaps 3-4% on a PW fight) or 4t10 would be more appropriate.

A 2t10 buff might be in the form of fixing Omen of Clarity, so that spells see 3.5 ppm (off of base cast times, Starfire=20% proc) rather then the current 3.5 ppm (off of 1s cat auto attack, SF=5.8% proc).

Is that how it is now? 5.8% for all spells? I think I missed when someone determined this. Need to add both bonuses to WC.

Pyowin · 11/12/09, 2:50 PM

I am a little curious as to how the 4t10 bonus will actually work (or at least how you're modeling it). I mean if you have consecutive wrath/starfire crits in under 4 seconds, will the DoTs stack, refresh or override the previous crit's DoT? Or will each crit apply its own separate DoT (so you could have up to 4 separate DoTs ticking at the same time)? If it's the last case, why doesn't blizzard just have the set bonus be to increase crit damage by x%, it would seem like that would be a lot easier to implement. On the other hand, if the DoT's get overridden by additional crits, then this is effectively no bonus since the DoT won't even get a chance to tick. Basically, nothing about the 4t10 set bonus makes any sense to me no matter how I interpret the tool tip.

• Hamlet · 11/12/09, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Pyowin

I am a little curious as to how the 4t10 bonus will actually work (or at least how you're modeling it). I mean if you have consecutive wrath/starfire crits in under 4 seconds, will the DoTs stack, refresh or override the previous crit's DoT? Or will each crit apply its own separate DoT (so you could have up to 4 separate DoTs ticking at the same time)? If it's the last case, why doesn't blizzard just have the set bonus be to increase crit damage by x%, it would seem like that would be a lot easier to implement. On the other hand, if the DoT's get overridden by additional crits, then this is effectively no bonus since the DoT won't even get a chance to tick. Basically, nothing about the 4t10 set bonus makes any sense to me no matter how I interpret the tool tip.

I believe at the moment we're all imagining it will work like Ignite.

thedopefishlives · 11/12/09, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by Pyowin

I am a little curious as to how the 4t10 bonus will actually work (or at least how you're modeling it). I mean if you have consecutive wrath/starfire crits in under 4 seconds, will the DoTs stack, refresh or override the previous crit's DoT? Or will each crit apply its own separate DoT (so you could have up to 4 separate DoTs ticking at the same time)? If it's the last case, why doesn't blizzard just have the set bonus be to increase crit damage by x%, it would seem like that would be a lot easier to implement. On the other hand, if the DoT's get overridden by additional crits, then this is effectively no bonus since the DoT won't even get a chance to tick. Basically, nothing about the 4t10 set bonus makes any sense to me no matter how I interpret the tool tip.

Think of it like the mage's Ignite. When a critical hit occurs, the dot damage for that crit is added to whatever dot damage is left, and the dot's timer is reset to zero. Your last argument, about it never getting a chance to tick, makes absolutely no sense; it will always tick at least once, and the only time you would lose damage from it is if you managed to chain 1-second Wrath crits from the beginning of a fight all the way to the end, in which case the final 3 ticks would not deal any damage. Since such a scenario would never occur, it is most certainly worth quite a bit of damage. Now, I represented it in Rawr optimistically as a simple 5% multiplier on the critical strike damage of Starfire and Wrath, which would correspond to an Ignite-style dot that never munches any ticks.

Erdluf · 11/12/09, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Is that how it is now? 5.8% for all spells? I think I missed when someone determined this. Need to add both bonuses to WC.

It is looking to me as if something has changed. Someone should check their own logs to see.

Ony:
5 Melee hits (1.8s weapon): 1 OoC proc.
4 Starfall casts: 1 OoC proc (on cast, not on damage).
64 Wrath casts: 0 procs.
22 SF casts: 0 procs.
396 Hurricane ticks: 10 procs (including 3 at once).
15 MF casts: 3 procs.
17 IS casts: 1 proc.

ToC5:
24 SF: 1 OoC (during Starfall, I suppose it could have been a Starfall proc)
1 Abolish Poison: 1 OoC proc.
18 MF: 2 OoC proc.
4 Starfall: 1 OoC proc.
18 IS: 3 OoC proc.
70 Wrath: 0 OoC procs

Proc rate on instants seems fairly high. Procs on SF and Wr seem to have disappeared. That is a big change. I'm questioning my logs and/or analysis.

h3llraiser · 11/12/09, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

I believe at the moment we're all imagining it will work like Ignite.

I believe you are right sir.

• Hamlet · 11/12/09, 8:56 PM

I've been thinking the Spell Rotation part of the TTT guide isn't totally clear, I might update it some. While thinking about that, I figured I should try to write down our decision tree for casting precisely. Here's what I came up with:

if (Lunar Eclipse is up and time remaining is >1 Starfire cast but <2 Starfire casts)
cast Starfire and cancel Eclipse when it completes
elseif (Moonfire is down)
cast Moonfire
elseif (Insect Swarm is down)
cast Insect Swarm
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is up and not about to be canceled by WiseEclipse)
cast Starfire
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is up but about to be canceled by WiseEclipse)
cast Wrath
elseif (Solar Eclipse is up, Bloodlust is up, Lunar Eclipse is off ICD, and Bloodlust time remaining is greater than 15s)
cast Wrath and cancel Eclipse when it completes
elseif (Solar Eclipse is up)
cast Wrath
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is on ICD for more than one Wrath cast time + one Wrath travel time)
cast Starfire
else
cast Wrath

Just tossing this up here to see if it looks right to people.

Also, someone should use this to make a Moonkin version of FaceMauler (called BirdBrain?)

Erdluf · 11/12/09, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Also, someone should use this to make a Moonkin version of FaceMauler (called BirdBrain?)

I haven't use FaceMauler (or FBN), but I believe that SquawkHard approximates that.

Your list seems to start out assuming no WiseEclipse, and then assumes WiseEclipse is present?

I'd suggest "SF if any other cast means allowing MF to fall off before eight ticks (SF Glyph)" should have a fairly high priority (not that I'm normally aware of this).

qae · 11/12/09, 11:44 PM

Assuming you use WiseEclipse, you might actually be able to use a shorter decision tree :

If (Faerie Fire is down)
cast Faerie Fire
elseif (Moonfire is down)
cast Moonfire
elseif (Moonfire is up, can be prolonged and time remaining is >1 Starfire cast but <1 Starfire cast + 1 Wrath cast)
cast Starfire
elseif (Insect Swarm is down)
cast Insect Swarm
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is up and time remaining is >2 Starfire casts)
cast Starfire
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is up and time remaining is >1 Starfire cast but <2 Starfire casts)
cast Wrath
elseif (Solar Eclipse is up)
cast Wrath
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is on ICD for more than one Wrath cast time + one Wrath travel time)
cast Starfire
else
cast Wrath

As Erdluf stated it seems you changed your mind about assumptions while writing it

WiseEclipse will do the rest of the job (even cancelling Solar Eclipse when Lunar is off ICD, and Bloodlust time remaining is greater than 15s - if you activate the option).
Added Faerie Fire.

Edit : And Erdluf got a point on fully extending MF.. I'm not sure what priority it could have but I always wanted to know if it would be better to cast one or more SF under Solar Eclipse to extend MF to it's full duration with glyph of SF - not sure if it would be viable without 2T9, but it would also change when we abandon 2T8 and loose some power out of Eclipse - or just spamm Wrath and reapply MF when it falls off.
Each SF that add a tick to MF is a kind of "superSF", doing the dmg of a SF+a tick of MF so it may beat a Solar Eclipsed Wrath (especially at high level of haste)

Edit 2 : added another assumption in blue in the decision tree to explicit what I meant to say in my first edit.

• Hamlet · 11/13/09, 3:00 AM

I'm assuming WiseEclipse the whole time, guess I should reword slightly. The top line is to make sure that if you have 2.5s left on Lunar and Moonfire is down, you cast Starfire to ensure your WE proc.

I forgot to add in the "clairvoyant" switch to Starfire on NG procs, too.

That's interesting, I don't alter my casts at all based on Moonfire extensions. Just for a brief estimate, the different between Eclipsed Wrath and uneclipsed Starfire on the sheet in my gear is 2300 DPS. That makes me inclined to think it's not worth doing that for 2 seconds to gain 2800 damage from a Moonfire tick.

if (Lunar Eclipse is up and time remaining is >1 Starfire cast but <2 Starfire casts)
cast Starfire and WE will cancel Eclipse when it completes
elseif (Moonfire is down)
cast Moonfire
elseif (Insect Swarm is down)
cast Insect Swarm
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is up but about to be canceled by WiseEclipse)
cast Wrath
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is up)
cast Starfire
elseif (Solar Eclipse is up, Bloodlust is up, Lunar Eclipse is off ICD, and Bloodlust time remaining is greater than 15s)
cast Wrath and WE will cancel Eclipse when it completes
elseif (Solar Eclipse is up)
cast Wrath
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is on ICD for more than one Wrath cast time + one Wrath travel time)
cast Starfire
elseif (Nature's Grace was refreshed by your previous Wrath)
cast Starfire
else
cast Wrath

• Hamlet · 11/13/09, 3:38 AM

New spreadsheet up with T10 bonuses (2T10 might need to be refined some, but should be a good start).

e: at first glance, the two T10 bonuses together are worth about as much as the 2T8.

Starfox · 11/13/09, 6:35 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

New spreadsheet up with T10 bonuses (2T10 might need to be refined some, but should be a good start).

e: at first glance, the two T10 bonuses together are worth about as much as the 2T8.

SC as 2T10 slightly above 20% uptime (~ +3% dps)
Breakdown of dps per setbonus, 2T9>>4t9>2t10/4t10 >:<

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft release 3.2.2 ( iterations=9999, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
  51938 100.0%  Raid
   8900  17.1%  Druid_2T8
   8759  16.8%  Druid_2T9
   8657  16.6%  Druid_4T9
   8643  16.6%  Druid_2T10
   8643  16.6%  Druid_4T10
   8396  16.1%  Druid_base

Player: Druid_2T10 night_elf druid balance 80
  DPS: 8642.9  Error=3.8  Range=806  DPR=27.2  RPS=318.0/315.8  (mana)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=14187592
  Core Stats:  strength=365|97(10)  agility=366|98(10)  stamina=1754|1282(1160)  intellect=1746|1329(1160)  spirit=752|549(380)  health=24777|20057  mana=27021|23151
  Spell Stats:  power=4041|3314(3155)  hit=10.14%|10.14%(266)  crit=37.03%|29.53%(905)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=26.56%|17.02%(443)  mp5=150|121(28)
  Attack Stats  power=1802|334(0)  hit=8.11%|8.11%(266)  crit=36.59%|28.37%(905)  expertise=0.00|0.00(0)  penetration=0.00%|0.00%(0)  haste=45.31%|17.56%(443)
  Defense Stats:  armor=5967|3623(3427)  blockv=0|0(0)  defense=400|400(0)  miss=9.70%|9.70%  dodge=12.96%|7.36%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=5.90%|5.90%
  Glyphs: starfire/moonfire/insect_swarm/the_wild/unburdened_rebirth/thorns
  Priorities:
    flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=fish_feast/mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/snapshot_stats
    faerie_fire/speed_potion/innervate,trigger=-2000/treants/starfall,skip_on_eclipse=1/starfire,instant=1
    moonfire/insect_swarm/wrath,eclipse=trigger/starfire,eclipse=benefit/wrath,eclipse=benefit
    starfire
  Actions:
    insect_swarm  Count= 20.3|14.91sec  DPE= 11220| 9%  DPET= 10204  DPR=  42.6  pDPS= 759  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=139  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1638|1559|1896
    moonfire      Count= 14.0|21.99sec  DPE= 12647| 7%  DPET= 11489  DPR=  18.7  pDPS= 590  Miss=0.00%  Hit= 386| 368| 441  Crit=  807|  769|  922|62.2%  TickCount=96  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1745|1658|2007
    starfall      Count=  3.4|99.91sec  DPE= 14947| 2%  DPET= 13188  DPR=  11.4  pDPS= 169  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=65  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=486|148|923  CritTick=1012|310|1929|55.8%
    starfire      Count= 61.4|4.68sec  DPE= 15340|36%  DPET=  7728  DPR=  30.0  pDPS=3145  Miss=0.00%  Hit=7975|7708|9389  Crit=16690|16110|19623|84.5%
    wrath         Count=124.9|2.34sec  DPE=  8919|43%  DPET=  8324  DPR=  25.4  pDPS=3718  Miss=0.00%  Hit=5526|4261|6809  Crit=11550| 8905|14230|56.3%
   treants  (DPS=373.4)
    treant_melee  Count= 42.0|5.12sec  DPE=  1874| 3%  DPET=  1287  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 263  Miss=0.00%  Hit=1883|1858|1908  Crit= 3765| 3717| 3817|8.2%  Glance=1412|24.0%  Dodge=2.6%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_wisdom/divine_spirit/fortitude
  Constant Buffs: mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/replenishment
  Dynamic Buffs:
    bloodlust             : start=1.0   refresh=0.0    interval=  0.0|0.0    uptime=13%
    eclipse_lunar         : start=9.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 34.2|34.2   uptime=42%  benefit=84%  trigger=60%
    eclipse_solar         : start=8.6   refresh=0.0    interval= 34.2|34.2   uptime=41%  benefit=73%
    lightweave_embroidery : start=5.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 63.1|63.1   uptime=25%  trigger=35%
    lunary_fury           : start=2.3   refresh=64.9   interval=106.0|4.4    uptime=97%  trigger=70%
    natures_grace         : start=31.1  refresh=136.0  interval=  9.6|1.8    uptime=87%  benefit=92%
    omen_of_clarity       : start=12.9  refresh=0.0    interval= 21.2|21.2   uptime= 6%  benefit= 5%  trigger= 6%
    t10_2pc_balance       : start=10.1  refresh=2.8    interval= 27.6|21.2   uptime=23%  benefit=21%
  Procs:
     98.2 |   3.19sec : judgement_of_wisdom
  Gains:
     4763.7 : blessing_of_wisdom      (overflow=27.2%)
    26901.0 : initial_mana          
     6680.2 : judgement_of_wisdom     (overflow=2.7%)
    64086.4 : moonkin_form            (overflow=9.4%)
     6936.1 : mp5_regen               (overflow=22.9%)
     5661.1 : omen_of_clarity       
    12141.1 : replenishment           (overflow=25.0%)
        6.2 : spirit_intellect_regen  (overflow=76.2%)

Player: Druid_2T8 night_elf druid balance 80
  DPS: 8899.8  Error=3.5  Range=635  DPR=27.9  RPS=319.5/317.7  (mana)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=14187592
  Core Stats:  strength=365|97(10)  agility=366|98(10)  stamina=1754|1282(1160)  intellect=1746|1329(1160)  spirit=752|549(380)  health=24777|20057  mana=27021|23151
  Spell Stats:  power=4041|3314(3155)  hit=10.14%|10.14%(266)  crit=37.03%|29.53%(905)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=26.56%|17.02%(443)  mp5=150|121(28)
  Attack Stats  power=1802|334(0)  hit=8.11%|8.11%(266)  crit=36.59%|28.37%(905)  expertise=0.00|0.00(0)  penetration=0.00%|0.00%(0)  haste=45.31%|17.56%(443)
  Defense Stats:  armor=5967|3623(3427)  blockv=0|0(0)  defense=400|400(0)  miss=9.70%|9.70%  dodge=12.96%|7.36%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=5.90%|5.90%
  Glyphs: starfire/moonfire/insect_swarm/the_wild/unburdened_rebirth/thorns
  Priorities:
    flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=fish_feast/mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/snapshot_stats
    faerie_fire/speed_potion/innervate,trigger=-2000/treants/starfall,skip_on_eclipse=1/starfire,instant=1
    moonfire/insect_swarm/wrath,eclipse=trigger/starfire,eclipse=benefit/wrath,eclipse=benefit
    starfire
  Actions:
    insect_swarm  Count= 20.3|14.91sec  DPE= 10845| 8%  DPET=  9882  DPR=  41.2  pDPS= 734  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=139  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1582|1559|1649
    moonfire      Count= 14.0|21.85sec  DPE= 12170| 6%  DPET= 11087  DPR=  18.1  pDPS= 570  Miss=0.00%  Hit= 373| 368| 384  Crit=  779|  769|  802|62.1%  TickCount=96  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1684|1658|1745
    starfall      Count=  3.3|100.64sec  DPE= 14481| 2%  DPET= 12798  DPR=  11.1  pDPS= 161  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=64  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=471|148|803  CritTick=984|310|1677|55.6%
    starfire      Count= 59.9|4.79sec  DPE= 15867|36%  DPET=  8047  DPR=  31.1  pDPS=3170  Miss=0.00%  Hit=7779|7708|8165  Crit=16305|16110|17064|94.9%
    wrath         Count=128.6|2.28sec  DPE=  9322|45%  DPET=  8701  DPR=  26.5  pDPS=4002  Miss=0.00%  Hit=5773|4261|6555  Crit=12074| 8905|13700|56.3%
   treants  (DPS=373.5)
    treant_melee  Count= 42.0|5.12sec  DPE=  1875| 3%  DPET=  1288  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 263  Miss=0.00%  Hit=1883|1858|1908  Crit= 3765| 3717| 3817|8.2%  Glance=1412|24.0%  Dodge=2.6%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_wisdom/divine_spirit/fortitude
  Constant Buffs: mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/replenishment
  Dynamic Buffs:
    bloodlust             : start=1.0   refresh=0.0    interval=  0.0|0.0    uptime=13%
    eclipse_lunar         : start=9.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 34.0|34.0   uptime=42%  benefit=87%  trigger=60%
    eclipse_solar         : start=8.7   refresh=0.0    interval= 33.9|33.9   uptime=41%  benefit=73%
    lightweave_embroidery : start=5.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 63.0|63.0   uptime=25%  trigger=35%
    lunary_fury           : start=2.3   refresh=65.0   interval=105.4|4.4    uptime=97%  trigger=70%
    natures_grace         : start=28.5  refresh=144.9  interval= 10.6|1.7    uptime=90%  benefit=93%
    omen_of_clarity       : start=13.0  refresh=0.0    interval= 21.0|21.0   uptime= 6%  benefit= 6%  trigger= 6%
  Procs:
     97.6 |   3.21sec : judgement_of_wisdom
  Gains:
     4358.9 : blessing_of_wisdom      (overflow=33.3%)
    26901.0 : initial_mana          
     6603.6 : judgement_of_wisdom     (overflow=3.2%)
    66614.3 : moonkin_form            (overflow=10.7%)
     6423.4 : mp5_regen               (overflow=28.6%)
     5707.5 : omen_of_clarity       
    11179.0 : replenishment           (overflow=30.9%)
        2.3 : spirit_intellect_regen  (overflow=89.6%)

Player: Druid_2T9 night_elf druid balance 80
  DPS: 8759.4  Error=3.6  Range=696  DPR=27.5  RPS=318.0/315.8  (mana)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=14187592
  Core Stats:  strength=365|97(10)  agility=366|98(10)  stamina=1754|1282(1160)  intellect=1746|1329(1160)  spirit=752|549(380)  health=24777|20057  mana=27021|23151
  Spell Stats:  power=4041|3314(3155)  hit=10.14%|10.14%(266)  crit=37.03%|29.53%(905)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=26.56%|17.02%(443)  mp5=150|121(28)
  Attack Stats  power=1802|334(0)  hit=8.11%|8.11%(266)  crit=36.59%|28.37%(905)  expertise=0.00|0.00(0)  penetration=0.00%|0.00%(0)  haste=45.31%|17.56%(443)
  Defense Stats:  armor=5967|3623(3427)  blockv=0|0(0)  defense=400|400(0)  miss=9.70%|9.70%  dodge=12.96%|7.36%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=5.90%|5.90%
  Glyphs: starfire/moonfire/insect_swarm/the_wild/unburdened_rebirth/thorns
  Priorities:
    flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=fish_feast/mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/snapshot_stats
    faerie_fire/speed_potion/innervate,trigger=-2000/treants/starfall,skip_on_eclipse=1/starfire,instant=1
    moonfire/insect_swarm/wrath,eclipse=trigger/starfire,eclipse=benefit/wrath,eclipse=benefit
    starfire
  Actions:
    insect_swarm  Count= 20.3|14.91sec  DPE= 10842| 8%  DPET=  9860  DPR=  41.1  pDPS= 734  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=139  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1582|1559|1649
    moonfire      Count= 14.0|21.98sec  DPE= 20017|11%  DPET= 18190  DPR=  29.6  pDPS= 934  Miss=0.00%  Hit= 373| 368| 384  Crit=  779|  769|  802|62.3%  TickCount=96  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1684|1658|1745  CritTick=3519|3464|3648|62.0%
    starfall      Count=  3.4|99.95sec  DPE= 14528| 2%  DPET= 12818  DPR=  11.1  pDPS= 164  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=65  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=471|148|803  CritTick=984|310|1677|55.7%
    starfire      Count= 61.4|4.68sec  DPE= 14997|35%  DPET=  7554  DPR=  29.4  pDPS=3073  Miss=0.00%  Hit=7800|7708|8165  Crit=16318|16110|17064|84.5%
    wrath         Count=124.9|2.34sec  DPE=  8616|41%  DPET=  8041  DPR=  24.5  pDPS=3592  Miss=0.00%  Hit=5337|4261|5921  Crit=11156| 8905|12374|56.3%
   treants  (DPS=373.5)
    treant_melee  Count= 42.0|5.12sec  DPE=  1875| 3%  DPET=  1287  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 263  Miss=0.00%  Hit=1883|1858|1908  Crit= 3766| 3717| 3817|8.1%  Glance=1412|23.8%  Dodge=2.6%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_wisdom/divine_spirit/fortitude
  Constant Buffs: mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/replenishment
  Dynamic Buffs:
    bloodlust             : start=1.0   refresh=0.0    interval=  0.0|0.0    uptime=13%
    eclipse_lunar         : start=9.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 34.2|34.2   uptime=42%  benefit=84%  trigger=60%
    eclipse_solar         : start=8.6   refresh=0.0    interval= 34.2|34.2   uptime=41%  benefit=73%
    lightweave_embroidery : start=5.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 62.6|62.6   uptime=25%  trigger=35%
    lunary_fury           : start=2.3   refresh=64.8   interval=105.6|4.4    uptime=97%  trigger=70%
    natures_grace         : start=31.1  refresh=136.1  interval=  9.7|1.8    uptime=87%  benefit=92%
    omen_of_clarity       : start=12.8  refresh=0.0    interval= 21.3|21.3   uptime= 6%  benefit= 5%  trigger= 6%
  Procs:
     98.0 |   3.19sec : judgement_of_wisdom
  Gains:
     4763.6 : blessing_of_wisdom      (overflow=27.2%)
    26901.0 : initial_mana          
     6669.7 : judgement_of_wisdom     (overflow=2.7%)
    64100.3 : moonkin_form            (overflow=9.4%)
     6936.4 : mp5_regen               (overflow=22.9%)
     5653.3 : omen_of_clarity       
    12141.5 : replenishment           (overflow=25.0%)
        6.0 : spirit_intellect_regen  (overflow=77.1%)

Player: Druid_4T10 night_elf druid balance 80
  DPS: 8642.7  Error=3.8  Range=706  DPR=27.2  RPS=317.9/315.6  (mana)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=14187592
  Core Stats:  strength=365|97(10)  agility=366|98(10)  stamina=1754|1282(1160)  intellect=1746|1329(1160)  spirit=752|549(380)  health=24777|20057  mana=27021|23151
  Spell Stats:  power=4041|3314(3155)  hit=10.14%|10.14%(266)  crit=37.03%|29.53%(905)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=26.56%|17.02%(443)  mp5=150|121(28)
  Attack Stats  power=1802|334(0)  hit=8.11%|8.11%(266)  crit=36.59%|28.37%(905)  expertise=0.00|0.00(0)  penetration=0.00%|0.00%(0)  haste=45.31%|17.56%(443)
  Defense Stats:  armor=5967|3623(3427)  blockv=0|0(0)  defense=400|400(0)  miss=9.70%|9.70%  dodge=12.96%|7.36%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=5.90%|5.90%
  Glyphs: starfire/moonfire/insect_swarm/the_wild/unburdened_rebirth/thorns
  Priorities:
    flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=fish_feast/mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/snapshot_stats
    faerie_fire/speed_potion/innervate,trigger=-2000/treants/starfall,skip_on_eclipse=1/starfire,instant=1
    moonfire/insect_swarm/wrath,eclipse=trigger/starfire,eclipse=benefit/wrath,eclipse=benefit
    starfire
  Actions:
    insect_swarm        Count= 20.3|14.91sec  DPE= 10844| 8%  DPET=  9861  DPR=  41.2  pDPS= 734  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=139  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1582|1559|1649
    moonfire            Count= 14.0|21.98sec  DPE= 12203| 7%  DPET= 11084  DPR=  18.1  pDPS= 569  Miss=0.00%  Hit= 373| 368| 384  Crit=  779|  769|  802|62.0%  TickCount=96  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1684|1658|1745
    starfall            Count=  3.4|99.92sec  DPE= 14494| 2%  DPET= 12788  DPR=  11.1  pDPS= 164  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=65  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=471|148|803  CritTick=984|310|1677|55.7%
    starfire            Count= 61.4|4.69sec  DPE= 14994|36%  DPET=  7553  DPR=  29.4  pDPS=3070  Miss=0.00%  Hit=7795|7708|8165  Crit=16310|16110|17064|84.5%
    tier10_4pc_balance  Count=  0.0|0.00sec  DPE=     1| 3%  DPET=     1  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 252  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=113  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=670|209|3686
    wrath               Count=124.9|2.34sec  DPE=  8610|42%  DPET=  8034  DPR=  24.5  pDPS=3590  Miss=0.00%  Hit=5337|4261|5921  Crit=11156| 8905|12374|56.3%
   treants  (DPS=374.1)
    treant_melee        Count= 42.0|5.12sec  DPE=  1877| 3%  DPET=  1289  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 263  Miss=0.00%  Hit=1883|1858|1908  Crit= 3765| 3717| 3817|8.3%  Glance=1412|23.9%  Dodge=2.6%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_wisdom/divine_spirit/fortitude
  Constant Buffs: mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/replenishment
  Dynamic Buffs:
    bloodlust             : start=1.0   refresh=0.0    interval=  0.0|0.0    uptime=13%
    eclipse_lunar         : start=9.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 34.2|34.2   uptime=42%  benefit=85%  trigger=60%
    eclipse_solar         : start=8.6   refresh=0.0    interval= 34.2|34.2   uptime=41%  benefit=73%
    lightweave_embroidery : start=5.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 63.1|63.1   uptime=25%  trigger=35%
    lunary_fury           : start=2.3   refresh=64.9   interval=106.4|4.4    uptime=97%  trigger=70%
    natures_grace         : start=31.1  refresh=136.0  interval=  9.7|1.8    uptime=87%  benefit=92%
    omen_of_clarity       : start=12.9  refresh=0.0    interval= 21.1|21.1   uptime= 6%  benefit= 6%  trigger= 6%
  Procs:
     98.0 |   3.19sec : judgement_of_wisdom
  Gains:
     4769.2 : blessing_of_wisdom      (overflow=27.1%)
    26901.0 : initial_mana          
     6666.6 : judgement_of_wisdom     (overflow=2.7%)
    64039.3 : moonkin_form            (overflow=9.4%)
     6941.3 : mp5_regen               (overflow=22.8%)
     5683.0 : omen_of_clarity       
    12154.3 : replenishment           (overflow=24.9%)
        5.5 : spirit_intellect_regen  (overflow=79.0%)

Player: Druid_4T9 night_elf druid balance 80
  DPS: 8657.2  Error=3.7  Range=703  DPR=27.2  RPS=318.1/315.9  (mana)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=14187592
  Core Stats:  strength=365|97(10)  agility=366|98(10)  stamina=1754|1282(1160)  intellect=1746|1329(1160)  spirit=752|549(380)  health=24777|20057  mana=27021|23151
  Spell Stats:  power=4041|3314(3155)  hit=10.14%|10.14%(266)  crit=37.03%|29.53%(905)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=26.56%|17.02%(443)  mp5=150|121(28)
  Attack Stats  power=1802|334(0)  hit=8.11%|8.11%(266)  crit=36.59%|28.37%(905)  expertise=0.00|0.00(0)  penetration=0.00%|0.00%(0)  haste=45.31%|17.56%(443)
  Defense Stats:  armor=5967|3623(3427)  blockv=0|0(0)  defense=400|400(0)  miss=9.70%|9.70%  dodge=12.96%|7.36%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=5.90%|5.90%
  Glyphs: starfire/moonfire/insect_swarm/the_wild/unburdened_rebirth/thorns
  Priorities:
    flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=fish_feast/mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/snapshot_stats
    faerie_fire/speed_potion/innervate,trigger=-2000/treants/starfall,skip_on_eclipse=1/starfire,instant=1
    moonfire/insect_swarm/wrath,eclipse=trigger/starfire,eclipse=benefit/wrath,eclipse=benefit
    starfire
  Actions:
    insect_swarm  Count= 20.3|14.91sec  DPE= 10845| 8%  DPET=  9862  DPR=  41.2  pDPS= 734  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=139  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1582|1559|1649
    moonfire      Count= 14.0|21.95sec  DPE= 12199| 7%  DPET= 11081  DPR=  18.1  pDPS= 569  Miss=0.00%  Hit= 373| 368| 384  Crit=  779|  769|  802|62.2%  TickCount=96  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1684|1658|1745
    starfall      Count=  3.4|99.98sec  DPE= 14508| 2%  DPET= 12801  DPR=  11.1  pDPS= 164  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=65  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=471|148|803  CritTick=985|310|1677|55.8%
    starfire      Count= 61.3|4.69sec  DPE= 15590|37%  DPET=  7854  DPR=  30.5  pDPS=3190  Miss=0.00%  Hit=8108|8016|8491  Crit=16961|16754|17746|84.5%
    wrath         Count=125.1|2.33sec  DPE=  8953|43%  DPET=  8355  DPR=  25.5  pDPS=3738  Miss=0.00%  Hit=5548|4431|6157  Crit=11600| 9262|12869|56.3%
   treants  (DPS=373.3)
    treant_melee  Count= 42.0|5.12sec  DPE=  1874| 3%  DPET=  1287  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 263  Miss=0.00%  Hit=1883|1858|1908  Crit= 3765| 3717| 3817|8.2%  Glance=1412|23.9%  Dodge=2.6%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_wisdom/divine_spirit/fortitude
  Constant Buffs: mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/replenishment
  Dynamic Buffs:
    bloodlust             : start=1.0   refresh=0.0    interval=  0.0|0.0    uptime=13%
    eclipse_lunar         : start=9.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 34.2|34.2   uptime=42%  benefit=85%  trigger=60%
    eclipse_solar         : start=8.6   refresh=0.0    interval= 34.3|34.3   uptime=40%  benefit=73%
    lightweave_embroidery : start=5.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 63.1|63.1   uptime=25%  trigger=35%
    lunary_fury           : start=2.3   refresh=65.0   interval=106.6|4.4    uptime=97%  trigger=70%
    natures_grace         : start=31.1  refresh=136.0  interval=  9.6|1.8    uptime=87%  benefit=92%
    omen_of_clarity       : start=12.9  refresh=0.0    interval= 21.2|21.2   uptime= 6%  benefit= 5%  trigger= 6%
  Procs:
     98.1 |   3.19sec : judgement_of_wisdom
  Gains:
     4772.3 : blessing_of_wisdom      (overflow=27.0%)
    26901.0 : initial_mana          
     6673.9 : judgement_of_wisdom     (overflow=2.7%)
    64071.9 : moonkin_form            (overflow=9.4%)
     6946.9 : mp5_regen               (overflow=22.8%)
     5651.4 : omen_of_clarity       
    12162.5 : replenishment           (overflow=24.8%)
        5.7 : spirit_intellect_regen  (overflow=78.3%)

Player: Druid_base night_elf druid balance 80
  DPS: 8395.5  Error=3.6  Range=715  DPR=26.4  RPS=318.0/315.8  (mana)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=14187592
  Core Stats:  strength=365|97(10)  agility=366|98(10)  stamina=1754|1282(1160)  intellect=1746|1329(1160)  spirit=752|549(380)  health=24777|20057  mana=27021|23151
  Spell Stats:  power=4041|3314(3155)  hit=10.14%|10.14%(266)  crit=37.03%|29.53%(905)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=26.56%|17.02%(443)  mp5=150|121(28)
  Attack Stats  power=1802|334(0)  hit=8.11%|8.11%(266)  crit=36.59%|28.37%(905)  expertise=0.00|0.00(0)  penetration=0.00%|0.00%(0)  haste=45.31%|17.56%(443)
  Defense Stats:  armor=5967|3623(3427)  blockv=0|0(0)  defense=400|400(0)  miss=9.70%|9.70%  dodge=12.96%|7.36%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=5.90%|5.90%
  Glyphs: starfire/moonfire/insect_swarm/the_wild/unburdened_rebirth/thorns
  Priorities:
    flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=fish_feast/mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/snapshot_stats
    faerie_fire/speed_potion/innervate,trigger=-2000/treants/starfall,skip_on_eclipse=1/starfire,instant=1
    moonfire/insect_swarm/wrath,eclipse=trigger/starfire,eclipse=benefit/wrath,eclipse=benefit
    starfire
  Actions:
    insect_swarm  Count= 20.3|14.91sec  DPE= 10845| 9%  DPET=  9862  DPR=  41.2  pDPS= 734  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=139  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1582|1559|1649
    moonfire      Count= 14.0|21.99sec  DPE= 12204| 7%  DPET= 11086  DPR=  18.1  pDPS= 569  Miss=0.00%  Hit= 373| 368| 384  Crit=  779|  769|  802|62.0%  TickCount=96  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=1684|1658|1745
    starfall      Count=  3.4|99.94sec  DPE= 14498| 2%  DPET= 12794  DPR=  11.1  pDPS= 164  Miss=0.00%  TickCount=65  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=471|148|803  CritTick=985|310|1677|55.7%
    starfire      Count= 61.4|4.68sec  DPE= 14996|37%  DPET=  7554  DPR=  29.4  pDPS=3071  Miss=0.00%  Hit=7796|7708|8165  Crit=16308|16110|17064|84.6%
    wrath         Count=125.0|2.34sec  DPE=  8618|43%  DPET=  8043  DPR=  24.5  pDPS=3595  Miss=0.00%  Hit=5338|4261|5921  Crit=11158| 8905|12374|56.4%
   treants  (DPS=373.1)
    treant_melee  Count= 42.0|5.12sec  DPE=  1873| 3%  DPET=  1286  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 263  Miss=0.00%  Hit=1883|1858|1908  Crit= 3765| 3717| 3817|8.1%  Glance=1412|24.1%  Dodge=2.6%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_wisdom/divine_spirit/fortitude
  Constant Buffs: mark_of_the_wild/moonkin_form/replenishment
  Dynamic Buffs:
    bloodlust             : start=1.0   refresh=0.0    interval=  0.0|0.0    uptime=13%
    eclipse_lunar         : start=9.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 34.2|34.2   uptime=42%  benefit=85%  trigger=60%
    eclipse_solar         : start=8.6   refresh=0.0    interval= 34.2|34.2   uptime=41%  benefit=73%
    lightweave_embroidery : start=5.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 63.1|63.1   uptime=25%  trigger=35%
    lunary_fury           : start=2.3   refresh=65.0   interval=107.1|4.4    uptime=97%  trigger=70%
    natures_grace         : start=31.1  refresh=136.1  interval=  9.7|1.8    uptime=87%  benefit=92%
    omen_of_clarity       : start=12.9  refresh=0.0    interval= 21.2|21.2   uptime= 6%  benefit= 5%  trigger= 6%
  Procs:
     98.1 |   3.19sec : judgement_of_wisdom
  Gains:
     4761.4 : blessing_of_wisdom      (overflow=27.2%)
    26901.0 : initial_mana          
     6671.3 : judgement_of_wisdom     (overflow=2.7%)
    64101.7 : moonkin_form            (overflow=9.4%)
     6933.0 : mp5_regen               (overflow=22.9%)
     5661.3 : omen_of_clarity       
    12135.5 : replenishment           (overflow=25.0%)
        6.2 : spirit_intellect_regen  (overflow=76.3%)

Auras and De-Buffs:
  Constant: abominations_might/arcane_empowerment/battle_shout/bleeding/blood_frenzy/crypt_fever/curse_of_elements
  Constant: devotion_aura/earth_and_moon/elemental_oath/expose_armor/faerie_fire/ferocious_inspiration
  Constant: flametongue_totem/heart_of_the_crusader/hunters_mark/improved_faerie_fire/improved_moonkin
  Constant: improved_scorch/improved_shadow_bolt/infected_wounds/insect_swarm/judgement_of_wisdom
  Constant: judgements_of_the_just/leader_of_the_pack/mana_spring_totem/mangle/master_poisoner/misery/moonkin/poisoned
  Constant: rampage/sanctified_retribution/savage_combat/strength_of_earth/sunder_armor/swift_retribution/thunder_clap
  Constant: totem_of_wrath/totem_of_wrath_debuff/trauma/trueshot/unleashed_rage/windfury_totem/winters_chill
  Constant: wrath_of_air
  Dynamic:

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 100925092
  MaxEventQueue = 87
  TargetHealth  = 15575757
  SimSeconds    = 2999000
  CpuSeconds    = 85.422
  SpeedUp       = 35108

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000281 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000000

Drunal · 11/13/09, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

if (Lunar Eclipse is up and time remaining is >1 Starfire cast but <2 Starfire casts)
cast Starfire and WE will cancel Eclipse when it completes
elseif (Moonfire is down)
cast Moonfire
elseif (Insect Swarm is down)
cast Insect Swarm
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is up but about to be canceled by WiseEclipse)
cast Wrath
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is up)
cast Starfire
elseif (Solar Eclipse is up, Bloodlust is up, Lunar Eclipse is off ICD, and Bloodlust time remaining is greater than 15s)
cast Wrath and WE will cancel Eclipse when it completes
elseif (Solar Eclipse is up)
cast Wrath
elseif (Lunar Eclipse is on ICD for more than one Wrath cast time + one Wrath travel time)
cast Starfire
elseif (Nature's Grace was refreshed by your previous Wrath)
cast Starfire
else
cast Wrath

Am I reading this right, that one should refresh Moonfire / Insect Swarm, while Lunar Eclipse is up? (but not while Solar is up?)

DanimalEQ · 11/13/09, 4:07 PM

Originally Posted by Drunal

Am I reading this right, that one should refresh Moonfire / Insect Swarm, while Lunar Eclipse is up? (but not while Solar is up?)

No. It says the only time to not refresh them, is if you are about to cast your last Starfire before WE cancels the Lunar Eclipse.

• Hamlet · 11/13/09, 7:04 PM

Originally Posted by Starfox

SC as 2T10 slightly above 20% uptime (~ +3% dps)

I'm seeing lower at the moment--I have the bonus affecting roughly 20% of spells while casting Wrath, and roughly 11% while casting Starfire. I'm basically modeling it similarly to NG: with Starfire, if one of the previous N casts (where N = 6/casttime) has procced OoC, apply the bonus. So "uptime" is deceptive, because you waste part of the buff while it expires mid-cast.

• Hamlet · 11/14/09, 4:57 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

elseif (Nature's Grace was refreshed by your previous Wrath)
cast Starfire
else
cast Wrath

Looking at this again, should it be (Nature's Grace was refreshed by your previous Wrath and Solar is on ICD)?

I don't think I've ever looked into this in detail, but I doubt it's worth the extra Starfire cast to risk proccing a Solar when you shouldn't.

• Hamlet · 11/14/09, 5:44 PM

Also (sorry about the multiposts, just seeing new things while I work on the spreadsheet/TTT), some napkin math on set bonuses:

As a guideline, let's say that upgrading one armor slot by one tier (13 ilvls) confers about 40 DPS. This comes from my earlier calculation comparing 2T8 to 4T9, where it seems that upgrading two armor slots by 2.5 tiers each (226 to 258) recovers about 200 of the DPS lost from switching the set bonuses.

Looking at the spreadsheet in my current stats, set bonuses are worth:
2T8: 500
2T9: 360
4T9: 210
2T10: 230
4T10: 270

So, starting from 2T8/2T9.258 (BiS pre-3.3):
1) Dropping 2T8 for 2T0.264: 270 DPS lost from set bonuses, 240 gained from stats (going up 3 tiers in 2 slots). Probably not worth it, but close enough to be worth checking more exactly.
2) Dropping 2T9 for 2T0.264: 150 DPS lost form set bonuses, 40 gained from stats (going up half a tier in 2 slots). Not worth it.

So once you have access to two pieces of T10.264, the best option will probably still be 2T8/2T9 (yup). Possibly 2T9/2T10.
Once you have access to two pieces of T10.278, 2T9/2T10 is best.

Again from 2T8/2T9:
1) Dropping both for 4T0.264: 360 DPS lost from set bonuses, 280 gained from stats (sum of above two swaps). Probably not worth it, but again, need to check more exactly at some point, since the superior itemization of the T10 set might close the gap.
2) Dropping both for 4T0.278: definitely worth it.

Result:
--4T10.278 will be BiS. Yay.
--T10.264 needs to be looked at more carefully, but it's bordering on unusable until you get some 278 pieces to go with it.
--I'm really hoping they make 8-piece T10 sets at some point like they did in Sunwell, so that 2T8/2T9/4T10 can be BiS for the whole rest of the expansion.

hacp · 11/15/09, 8:14 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Also (sorry about the multiposts, just seeing new things while I work on the spreadsheet/TTT), some napkin math on set bonuses:

As a guideline, let's say that upgrading one armor slot by one tier (13 ilvls) confers about 40 DPS. This comes from my earlier calculation comparing 2T8 to 4T9, where it seems that upgrading two armor slots by 2.5 tiers each (226 to 258) recovers about 200 of the DPS lost from switching the set bonuses.

Looking at the spreadsheet in my current stats, set bonuses are worth:
2T8: 500
2T9: 360
4T9: 210
2T10: 230
4T10: 270

So, starting from 2T8/2T9.258 (BiS pre-3.3):
1) Dropping 2T8 for 2T0.264: 270 DPS lost from set bonuses, 240 gained from stats (going up 3 tiers in 2 slots). Probably not worth it, but close enough to be worth checking more exactly.
2) Dropping 2T9 for 2T0.264: 150 DPS lost form set bonuses, 40 gained from stats (going up half a tier in 2 slots). Not worth it.

So once you have access to two pieces of T10.264, the best option will probably still be 2T8/2T9 (yup). Possibly 2T9/2T10.
Once you have access to two pieces of T10.278, 2T9/2T10 is best.

Again from 2T8/2T9:
1) Dropping both for 4T0.264: 360 DPS lost from set bonuses, 280 gained from stats (sum of above two swaps). Probably not worth it, but again, need to check more exactly at some point, since the superior itemization of the T10 set might close the gap.
2) Dropping both for 4T0.278: definitely worth it.

Result:
--4T10.278 will be BiS. Yay.
--T10.264 needs to be looked at more carefully, but it's bordering on unusable until you get some 278 pieces to go with it.
--I'm really hoping they make 8-piece T10 sets at some point like they did in Sunwell, so that 2T8/2T9/4T10 can be BiS for the whole rest of the expansion.

You need to look at how well T10 is itemized. There is almost no spirit in there and most of it is crit/haste with only two hit pieces. Its much more like 3.5 tiers instead of 2.5 tiers going from the 226 tier 8 to the 264 T10

• Hamlet · 11/16/09, 4:49 AM

Some trinkets:
Muradin's Spyglass - Items - Sigrie
Dislodged Foreign Object - Items - Sigrie

These both look very strong at first glace. The crit one is easy to compare to Eye/IDS. The haste one, well, everyone seems to have this aversion to high haste, but it will still be as good as crit for most people in ICC gear. And the stacking effect is, depending on ICD, potentially stronger than the proc on Flare.

I'll check in more detail in the spreadsheet soon, or maybe once we know the ICD, but these will help relieve trinket woes. Quick mental guess is that both are weaker than Reign.

thedopefishlives · 11/16/09, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Some trinkets:
Muradin's Spyglass - Items - Sigrie
Dislodged Foreign Object - Items - Sigrie

These both look very strong at first glace. The crit one is easy to compare to Eye/IDS. The haste one, well, everyone seems to have this aversion to high haste, but it will still be as good as crit for most people in ICC gear. And the stacking effect is, depending on ICD, potentially stronger than the proc on Flare.

I'll check in more detail in the spreadsheet soon, or maybe once we know the ICD, but these will help relieve trinket woes. Quick mental guess is that both are weaker than Reign.

Plugged the numbers for Muradin's into Rawr. (Yes, it is supported out of the box.) It is on par with the non-heroic version of Reign of the Dead/Unliving, if the stack can be maintained vis-a-vis Eye/Illustration. Rawr currently doesn't have a way to model stack ramping or re-ramping, so take that with a grain of salt.

Aym · 11/17/09, 9:05 AM

I am using 2pt8 and 2pt9 245. I find it unlikely that I will get more than maybe one piece of T9 258 - we are still working on Anub, and I wont expect to be first in line for a token.

So assuming i will end up with this, am i looking at an upgrade from 2pt8/t9 to 2 or 4 piece T10, even at the lowest ilevel? I assume that the extra stats on T10, and the much better itemazation, will be enough to push off 2pt8, but i simply can't see through it. I am not a math pro.

The biggest worry of mine are the bonuses. I did some napkin math assuming my current set bonuses, and imagined that i had the T10 bonuses *aswell* and i was looking at a 3,75% damage increase from 2pt10 and a mere 2,9% increase from 4pt10. Am i completely off here? It seems very disappointing, considering we have to let go of 2pt8 for such a small increase in damage, although we must keep in mind that crit will generally be increased from T10 (with an additional 200 crit rating if i simply compare T9 to T10).

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated

dedmonwakeen · 11/17/09, 12:39 PM

The most recent version of SimC has support for all the known trinkets (Dislodged Foreign Object, etc).

I also added an option strict_gcd_queue=1 that will not let spell queuing occur when the cast time gets below GCD+GCD_Lag. It is not on by default.

It really hammers our calculation of Moonkin DPS, significantly lowering the haste soft-cap.

As I said, it is not yet on by default, but it might be worth some experimentation.