Moonkin Raiding - Page 98

Eranicus · 06/03/09, 9:23 AM

no .5 second delay, no gcd. When it procs during a SF cast nothing changes except i basicly get a "double" SF when the cast lands.

Elaron · 06/03/09, 9:34 AM

I can confirm, the 4T8 set bonus works like it used to with an 8% proc chance should you have logged in with your items equipped. Unequipped one and taking a quick re-log before repeating the test shows that the Starfire works as a double hit. The animation of a single, but two separate hits in the combat log. GCD takes a very small moment before casting the next spell, this may be larger under raid conditions.

The obvious question it brings; how will this effect the Solar v lunar argument. I have previously been siding with the Solar people however seeing this I am unsure. Looking forward to some Maths being done on the subject (unless; naturally; I've missed it all already)

• Hamlet · 06/03/09, 11:13 AM

Can people confirm that result (the double Starfire with no extra GCD)? Does that happen only when the proc occurs mid-Starfire cast, or on all bonus Starfires? Can you give an estimate of how long the delay is?

If it can be modeled as instant with no GCD, that will be easier to do. Also, it would be well over 100 DPS, and would strongly favor Lunar.

Saldek · 06/03/09, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Can people confirm that result (the double Starfire with no extra GCD)? Does that happen only when the proc occurs mid-Starfire cast, or on all bonus Starfires? Can you give an estimate of how long the delay is?

If it can be modeled as instant with no GCD, that will be easier to do. Also, it would be well over 100 DPS, and would strongly favor Lunar.

Can not confirm. When queueing the instant Starfire after a Starfire already casting, the GCD does occur. The GCD starts as always when the next cast is queued, not when it is fired. The remaining delay is the rest of the GCD.

sulliwan · 06/03/09, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Can people confirm that result (the double Starfire with no extra GCD)? Does that happen only when the proc occurs mid-Starfire cast, or on all bonus Starfires? Can you give an estimate of how long the delay is?

If it can be modeled as instant with no GCD, that will be easier to do. Also, it would be well over 100 DPS, and would strongly favor Lunar.

There seems to be some weird behaviour going on with spell queueing. GetSpellCooldown() shows a gcd midcast after the gcd from the cast has finished in case you have queued another spell. This is not specific to starfire, so if the instant starfire gets a shorter gcd due to this then it should also work for other instant spells if you queue them during some longer spell cast. For example starfire-moonfire, etc. Also I'm pretty sure it didn't work like this before patch.

Edit: Seems to be confirmed, I was getting delays of 0.8-1sec between spell_cast_success for previous moonfire and spell_cast_start for next starfire, which would be impossible if the gcd got invoked as moonfire actually casts.
So as Saldek above me posted, the gcd for the extra starfire(or any other spell if you queue it during a spell cast) seems to start as the spell gets queued, not as it fires.

So, the extra starfire does add a gcd, however it is shorter than normal gcd, depending on when it got queued.

Saldek, you commented it with "as always", does that mean this mechanic was already in effect before this patch? I am pretty sure I was getting straight 0-s until spells finished when spamming my getspellcooldown() macro while chaincasting stuff before patch.

Edit2: Delays between instant starfire landing and next starfire cast start according to combatlog, for the ones near 1sec or over, NG was probably not up, for the last one, I got no idea what's going on.

Lemo · 06/03/09, 12:11 PM

I can confirm the double Starfire with no extra GCD. Tested on target dummies.

Saldek · 06/03/09, 1:19 PM

Originally Posted by sulliwan

Saldek, you commented it with "as always", does that mean this mechanic was already in effect before this patch? I am pretty sure I was getting straight 0-s until spells finished when spamming my getspellcooldown() macro while chaincasting stuff before patch.

It was certainly in effect before 3.1.3, but I don't know since when exactly. However, I didn't use a macro for testing. I simply watched my spell bar's gcd display as I queued several different spells. The time window of .3s seems sufficiently long to notice it without a macro.

Xerophyte · 06/03/09, 1:36 PM

I'm getting a clear GCD from my procs when testing on the EU live servers at least.

• Hamlet · 06/03/09, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by Elaron

I can confirm

Originally Posted by Saldek

Can not confirm. When queueing the instant Starfire after a Starfire already casting, the GCD does occur.

Originally Posted by Lemo

I can confirm the double Starfire with no extra GCD. Tested on target dummies.

Originally Posted by Xerophyte

I'm getting a clear GCD from my procs when testing on the EU live servers at least.

This is getting weird. Can you guys tell us more about exactly what you're doing/seeing?

Altiris · 06/03/09, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by Lemo

I can confirm the double Starfire with no extra GCD. Tested on target dummies.

A straight "I can confirm it" doesn't help much without numbers. It is true that there is no GCD after the first Starfire cast and before the instant, because the GCD elapsed during the first Starfire cast. However, the second Starfire cast still triggers a GCD.

I tested it out on a training dummy just casting IS and waiting for elune's wrath to proc. Combat log snippet:

6/3 13:39:23.364 SPELL_CAST_START (Instant Starfire)
6/3 13:39:23.372 SPELL_DAMAGE (Instant Starfire)
6/3 13:39:23.372 SPELL_CAST_FAILED (Normal Starfire, not yet recovered)
6/3 13:39:24.332 SPELL_CAST_START (Normal Starfire)

This is with me using a macro to spam Starfire every .01 seconds, so reaction time is not a factor. As you can see, the delay between the instant and the next normal Starfire is ~1 second. This is without NG, so my GCD would be 1.24 seconds.

antwon87 · 06/03/09, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Altiris

This is with me using a macro to spam Starfire every .01 seconds, so reaction time is not a factor.

How do you macro that? Never heard that before.

If I get a proc in the middle of a starfire cast, the instant goes off right when the current cast ends and I do get a gcd after the instant. Sorry I don't have any concrete numbers to show exactly how long that gcd is, but it's definitely there.

Edit: Here's a bit of combat log:

6/3 12:28:50.635 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Elune's Wrath
6/3 12:28:51.465 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS Starfire (normal)
6/3 12:28:51.465 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Nature's Grace
6/3 12:28:51.465 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED Elune's Wrath
6/3 12:28:51.465 SPELL_CAST_START Starfire (instant)
6/3 12:28:51.524 SPELL_CAST_FAILED Starfire, "Not yet recovered"
6/3 12:28:51.856 SPELL_DAMAGE Starfire
6/3 12:28:51.856 SPELL_DAMAGE Starfire
6/3 12:28:52.544 SPELL_CAST_START Starfire (normal)

Looks like 1.07s between the instant and the next normal. I was under NG there so that's about what my gcd should have been. Could be poor reaction time, was spamming starfire, but don't have that fancy macro to hit it super fast. Two other instances from that log showed 1.062s and .97s between the instant starfire and the start of the next cast (next cast was moonfire in one case).

Eranicus · 06/03/09, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by sulliwan

Edit: Seems to be confirmed, I was getting delays of 0.8-1sec between spell_cast_success for previous moonfire and spell_cast_start for next starfire, which would be impossible if the gcd got invoked as moonfire actually casts.
So as Saldek above me posted, the gcd for the extra starfire(or any other spell if you queue it during a spell cast) seems to start as the spell gets queued, not as it fires.

So, the extra starfire does add a gcd, however it is shorter than normal gcd, depending on when it got queued.
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This is how it looks to me. I only get them as double casts if the SF is allready casting, so yeh it seems like the gcd of the proc happens during the current SF cast. I will do some more testing with proper timing of events later on after tonights raid to try to find out exactly whats going on

Xerophyte · 06/03/09, 4:08 PM

Mid raid now and mostly healing, but I did DPS on XT at least. Copypasting from World of Logs since I don't normally run /combatlog myself

[19:16:23.214] Molar begins to cast Starfire
[19:16:23.589] Molar Starfire XT-002 Deconstructor 5301
[19:16:34.742] Molar gains Elune's Wrath from Molar
[19:16:38.630] Molar's Elune's Wrath fades
[19:16:38.630] Molar begins to cast Starfire
[19:16:38.735] Molar Starfire Heart of the Deconstructor *24768*
[19:16:39.640] Molar begins to cast Starfire

So 0.9 second GCD delay for that particular cast. Relevant log if anyone really wants to play around for some reason.

• Hamlet · 06/03/09, 4:12 PM

Originally Posted by Xerophyte

Mid raid now and mostly healing, but I did DPS on XT at least. Copypasting from World of Logs since I don't normally run /combatlog myself

[19:16:23.214] Molar begins to cast Starfire
[19:16:23.589] Molar Starfire XT-002 Deconstructor 5301
[19:16:34.742] Molar gains Elune's Wrath from Molar
[19:16:38.630] Molar's Elune's Wrath fades
[19:16:38.630] Molar begins to cast Starfire
[19:16:38.735] Molar Starfire Heart of the Deconstructor *24768*
[19:16:39.640] Molar begins to cast Starfire

So 0.9 second GCD delay for that particular cast. Relevant log if anyone really wants to play around for some reason.

0.9s is within error bars of the normal 1.0s GCD. I'm still skeptical that anything unusual is happening with the GCD.

Xerophyte · 06/03/09, 4:16 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

0.9s is within error bars of the normal 1.0s GCD. I'm still skeptical that anything unusual is happening with the GCD.

Oh, I'm reasonably convinced that nothing peculiar is going on. Almost exactly 1s delay between cast starts even, 0.9 from the hit.