ATheGreat

good thing i said it was specifically for 3d, eh eh?

 

Ashaera

Perhaps you should try reading his post again, ill give some hints:
"I don't know of a single fight in WotLK that requires an extrodinary amount AoE damage"
"The only possible exception I can think of is if Sarth3D if you don't have a DK tanking adds or much AoE in raid"

During a typical Sarth+3 I cast 1 hurricane & maybe 3-4 typhoons if I wanna damagewhore, if not then only 1 typhoon. You might handle the encounter differently but our pally tank+random aoe keeps the spawns down & we only do heavy aoe to clean up whelps.

The extra 30% aoe damage doesnt hurt, but I agree thats theres no need or massive gain from it either.

 

ATheGreat

and like i said, if you're not required to do any sort of major aoe, fine, don't take it, feel free to keep starfall and treants and whatever you think is going to be more useful ~ obviously if you're casting one hurricane over the course of the entire fight it would be a waste - if you're actually doing some aoe'ing, i see no point in taking starfall (and to a lesser degree treants) - common sense dictates your spec depending on the role you play within the fight. There is a core that all druids are going to take, and then on top of that it's all gravy depending on gear, on the specific fight, on what your guild expects you to do.

I aoe a fair amount in 3d (during whelps, if there's an issue and it's called for, etc), and i find it useful to be doing 30% more dmg every cast - i don't find it useful when one of my treants goes and starts punching sarth in his tail, or is hit by a lava wave (because he is probably going across the fight zone, away from the drake i want him on, to go punch sarth in the tail) - imo, there's no massive gain from any of the optional talents, but for the way i'm currently utilized in this fight, this is the best utilization of my "extra" points.

 

Neshalin

You do know that treants are controllable now, right? Force of Nature is a large damage boost and always worth taking.

 

Angelfire

Perhaps 'controllable' is a strong word, but they will attack the same target as you, which is a huge help.

 

Ashaera

Whilst this is how you would use them 95% of the time its not really true -- You have full control of what target they attack & they do not swap target if you do.
Ctrl+1 is the basic command for forcing them into attacking a specific target & they will stick to that until told to do something else.
Cant remember the command for putting a pet on passive, but you could bind it to ctrl+2 & use that to move them towards you - Theres a limit to how much time its worth spending on controlling a short duration pet though.

 

Khanu

I have read most stuff regarding Boomkins in here and I am still not clear about this ...

If as a matter of personal preference, one is not to use Glyph of IS (so as to use Glyph of Innervate instead) or one is not to take IIS at all (eg. I prefer 3/3 OF to do some solo AOE grinding), is it still useful to cast IS during both the Eclipse and the Non-Eclipse rotations ? Or should it be skipped altogether ?

 

Alerian

Creating a spec solely for AOE farming is something separate from a raiding spec (and if you're making a solo AOE spec, you should change back to your raid spec for progression fights).

Use and glyph iIS when the Eclipse proc is *not* up (either on CD or before it procs). Casting IS during a Starfire Eclipse proc is a DPS loss. In a situation where Eclipse's CD is ending, you would cast a Wrath and while it is traveling cast IS.

 

Cdin

Fair enough, but I think your experiance is more of the exception rather then the rule. Making a comment like "gale winds is amazingly valuable imo" overstats it's value in my opinion.

Lets face it, Sarth3D is about Single target DPS much more then it is about AoE dps. The key is getting the drakes down quickly, and limiting the number of Adds that spawn and the damage that they do. In such a situation Force of Nature is a much better spell if used correctly. Mine rairly die to a lava wave, and do serious damage on the drakes.

So, I'll say it again. Unless your in an AoE starved Situation your hurting yourself more then your helping in my opinion.

www.GrayMatterWoW.blogspot.com - My Moonkin related Blog.

 

Daylis

3.1 PTR current state.


Seems like Frenzy will be even more useless for raiding than it already is. Most of it's (rare) procs were down to aoe damage, of which there's a grand majority of magic type in current raiding environment.
Perhaps they changed it because of the PvP aspect, but they could really look at the pve picture. Even now it was next to worst (genesis) talent for raiding, it needed buffing for pve, not limiting it's already scarce use.

 

tr33hugger

IMO owlkin frenzy was never designed to be useful in a raiding situation. Each talent tree has some talents that are solely designed for either pve or pvp, so there is no need tune every talent to be worthwile in pve.

 

Ashaera

This & IV nerf are the only interesting Moonkin changes in patch 3.1 -- Which I guess is a pleasant suprise given our current damage.

They made an allready useless pve talent even worse, no big deal.

 

Humbaba

It's not breaking my heart any right now. The "nerfs" have zero effect on me and the MotW change is an unexpected buff. I'm curious to see how the Ulduar fights treat our mana. If we're ending Ulduar fights at 60% mana I wouldn't be surprised to see a nerf to the moonkin form regen.

 

• Arawethion

This, basically.

I read the IMW change to mean "in addition to the current effect"--that fits with the Blizzard pattern of adding a small personal benefit to talents that only gave a raid benefit. Anyone know for sure otherwise?
e: nm, it says "also."

So yes, we're totally unaffected this patch, save for 2% Spi/Int and the chance that the new Glyph of Starfall will have some use (but cursory mental calculation puts it slightly behind Glyph of IS).

So long as the Moonkin Form regen is not nerfed this patch, we will have no mana issues.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

hquest

Druid talent @ MMO-Champion

It has a new listed major glyph, Glyph of Starfall, which reduces Starfall cooldown by 90secs.

I was wondering if we can't drop Glyph of IS in favor of this one... for lazies like me which has low IS uptime, think Starfall should be better, although some math is needed to prove this.

 

• Arawethion

I just alluded to this in my above post. Back-of-envelope thoughts:

Starfall does about 1% of single-target DPS; this will double that.

IS does 6-7%; losing the Glyph will drop it to about 4-5%.

IS is still better for Patchwerk. Starfall will be a clear winner for any AoE fight.

Tangential note: there's a tiny chance that dropping Glyph of Starfire will become a possibility as we further analyze the validity of rotations that involve Moonfire clipping.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Axl

Seems like all the other classes are getting a lot of buffs to their dps. We're not. My biggest gripe is they're letting the other 'dot' classes have their DoT's crit. We're pretty much a DoT class too, but we're definately getting overlooked here.

 

Eilt

That was my concern as well, we were not nerf'd which is nice, but we also did not get buffed like the other classes. I would LOVE to see IS/MG DoT crits, I think adding it to Celestial Focus (since the stun portion for PvP is gone, would give it some love.) Even in PvE it is one of the first talents people are willing to lose for other abilities, I think some DoT crits would make it very interesting.

Also, glyph of typhoon, 3 seconds reduced CD on AE fights will be a pretty noticeable increase in damage, any idea if this will be a minor glyph?

 

• Arawethion

Will it really?

Typhoon is not massively higher DPET than Hurricane, and this only multiplies that difference by 20/17.

And as frequently noted, in lots of DPS-centric raid AoE situations it's awkward to be knocking the targets around all the time anyway.

But, take this all with a grain of salt; I don't even take Typhoon for raiding.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Eilt

You bring up good points, I should have specified, mobile AE will be nice. Obviously it will be situational but as we have some available open minor glyph spots, if this is a minor I do not see a better alternative worth taking.

 

• Arawethion

If it's a minor, then yeah, I guess it's good (again, if you even use Typhoon).

But the little switcheroo with Glyph of Focus in 3.0.8 makes me think that they're averse to adding any minors that increase the DPS of abilities.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Cdin

I wouldn't say that. At most 20% of our DPS comes from DoTs.

The changes to Pandemic and Shadow form arn't huge. Both talents already did something similar.

On top of that Affliction is getting nerfed hard. The affects of Immolate are being reduced dramatically and it looks like they've taken out the Damage portion of Siphon Life dispite what GC said a monthago.

Shadow priests on the other hand are currently a little underpowered in my experiance.

I would love for our dots to crit, but it's not a huge loss that they don't.

www.GrayMatterWoW.blogspot.com - My Moonkin related Blog.

 

Daylis

We're really not a predominantly dot class. We've 2, with IS always lagging behind until it becomes a filler like in bc. I think perhaps already in t8, if the set bonuses ignore insect swarm, it will become a "moving spell". Cast it if you have to move.

Now, i'm satisfied with my damage, but looking over combatlogs of highest dps, our ranges are definitely on the lower end of all the classes and specs. We're doing up to 6k, more or less, locks mages and quite a few others are going 7k. I'm basing this on wow meter online page, it may be that there arent as many boomkin combat logs there as other classes, hence they get the better rng, but comparing overall damage... here it is
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

It's kinda sad, we're bottom 3 of ALL the bosses in naxx... !?
i hope it combines boomkins with scrub tank&tankgeared cat dps, at least then we'd have the excuse of them dragging our numbers down.

 

• Arawethion

Remember that Moonkin benefit from Bloodlust is heavily attenuated, we don't have many serious timers, and that DPS-stacked parses on websites tend to be abusing the nonlinearity of short fights.

I'm pretty sure we're roughly right in the middle of the curve for hybrids.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Daylis

Yes, i understand patch doesnt bring out our strong side, which is sustained dps very well, especially on the fightlenths we are seeing now. I could accept us being in lower 3 only on patch, but the rest of the encounters are longer (if not exactly long by bc standard) and we're still down there

Slightly offtopic, but which casters would scale best with BL?
I assumed mages, being a stereotypic cd based caster, but my guildie went and imput himself in rawr and being BLed or not only made 200dps difference for him. I find it very strange, to the point where i'm doubting he did it correctly. He took 3min nonBLed fight vs. 2min BLed.. and only 200dps difference between them?