Typhoon kick would probably be nice in some aspects of XT-002 but the frustration it'd add for Razorscale and other stuff doesn't seem worth the trouble of keeping it unglyphed. It's Daze/Snare didn't seem very noticable on XT-002 adds but they walk fairly slow to begin with. I think even a 60 second cooldown on Starfall is way too much to deal with the delay between the adds on XT and other fights, also spacing on XT adds seems pretty varied and I don't think star burst radius would even hit many other scrap bots.
At the moment I've gone with Intensity+OOC for regen and it seems to be just on the brink of okay, I'm looking for 3 more points to feed into IIS but I don't think I can take the regen or AoE hit I think I'd need to make to do it since my guild lacks a spriest.
Druids
* Innervate: This ability has been redesigned to grant 450% of the casting Druid’s base mana pool to the target over 20 seconds.
* Improved Moonkin Form: Now grants 10/20/30% of spirit as spell power.
If this makes it to the live server we see a significantly more reliable innervate. The change makes it independent from targets stats.
Imp Moonkin Form: The number of additional spellpower granted by spirit is significantly increased.
A highly welcome add to SP of about 90SP in rank3 for a moonkin with a typical spirit stat of 300. (+45SP in comparison to 3.1.1 talent)
With the new Innervate i'm going back to pre-3.1 spec with no regen talents other than OoC. If I find that i'm still not having any mana issues, I might even ditch OoC for another dps talent - not really sure which.
Any thoughts on Brambles VS Genesis VS Owlkin Frenzy? Assuming only 1-2 points in either. I don't feel Gale Winds would support me well since it doesn't affect Starfall and generally I don't have to AoE much outside of trash and lashers on Freya which we have more than enough aoe for.
I'm looking for a little bit of advice for increasing my moonkin's dps. I've gone through the forums here and have followed some of the advice, but I'd like to see if anyone has any more suggestions for me. I am currently doing between 1200-1400 dps on average in heroics, but have been told that those aren't good numbers. I'm not sure if it's just a gear situation as the "critics" have been better geared than me, but any advice would be much appreciated!
IFF-->MF-->IS-->Wrath until Eclipse and then Starfire through the eclipse. I was doing Starfire first and then Wrath during Eclipse, but it seems that my current rotation gives slightly more dps.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Edit: My apologies for apparently begging for hand holding. That was not my intention. As I said, I've read through the forums and have taken what advice I could (some gear, gems, and glyphs are unavailable to me at this time due to either gold issues or not having enough marks). I was merely hoping for any other suggestions that would help me with what I have at this time while working toward better gear. Again, my apologies for begging and wasting your time.
I'm looking for a little bit of advice for increasing my moonkin's dps. I've gone through the forums here and have followed some of the advice, but I'd like to see if anyone has any more suggestions for me. I am currently doing between 1200-1400 dps on average in heroics, but have been told that those aren't good numbers. I'm not sure if it's just a gear situation as the "critics" have been better geared than me, but any advice would be much appreciated!
IFF-->MF-->IS-->Wrath until Eclipse and then Starfire through the eclipse. I was doing Starfire first and then Wrath during Eclipse, but it seems that my current rotation gives slightly more dps.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Your gear sucks, your gems suck, your spec sucks and you have the wrong glyphs. Start here: Moonkin Guide for Dummies!
edit: and to be fair, you'll do lower dps in heroics than in raids because you're missing a plethora of buffs, but fix the gems, spec and glyphs before asking why you suck.
I'm looking for a little bit of advice for increasing my moonkin's dps. I've gone through the forums here and have followed some of the advice, but I'd like to see if anyone has any more suggestions for me. I am currently doing between 1200-1400 dps on average in heroics, but have been told that those aren't good numbers. I'm not sure if it's just a gear situation as the "critics" have been better geared than me, but any advice would be much appreciated!
IFF-->MF-->IS-->Wrath until Eclipse and then Starfire through the eclipse. I was doing Starfire first and then Wrath during Eclipse, but it seems that my current rotation gives slightly more dps.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Edit: My apologies for apparently begging for hand holding. That was not my intention. As I said, I've read through the forums and have taken what advice I could (some gear, gems, and glyphs are unavailable to me at this time due to either gold issues or not having enough marks). I was merely hoping for any other suggestions that would help me with what I have at this time while working toward better gear. Again, my apologies for begging and wasting your time.
If you read the threads and understand them, you'll easily realize why your dps is low. You have a pretty fair laundry list of things to work on.
Respec! That spec makes many Moonkins cry. Get the Emblem of Heroism offhand for starters. Regem. You're gemming for some really bad socket bonuses. Don't. You're really lacking in hit and you should have a Chaotic Skyflare meta. Enchant the wrists with spell power. Glyphs are wrong. Moonfire, Starfire, 3rd your choice. Why on earth you have the Rebirth major, I have no idea. Get the Starfire idol.
I'm looking for a little bit of advice for increasing my moonkin's dps. ...
Seladari, as the others mentioned checkout as a first stop info point the moonkin guide for dummies thread in this forum.
Have a look on my spec (which is a quite common raid/pve spec) to get a first idea: The World of Warcraft Armory
Gemming: Prefer spellpower gems in nearly every case. (rule of thumb). (-->maximize spellpower)
Stats: Strive for a hit rating of 263 (w/o draenei in grp) which is the softcap. Hit is the most powerful stat till you are capped. Then go for Spellpower,haste rating,crit rating. Spellpower is significantly more powerful than haste and crit.
Glyphs (see other posts).
If you follow these recommendations and the proposals of the posts above you should see a substantial boost of your dps.
and Humbaba, don't nuke every newcomer that asks for help.
With the new Innervate i'm going back to pre-3.1 spec with no regen talents other than OoC. If I find that i'm still not having any mana issues, I might even ditch OoC for another dps talent - not really sure which.
Any thoughts on Brambles VS Genesis VS Owlkin Frenzy? Assuming only 1-2 points in either. I don't feel Gale Winds would support me well since it doesn't affect Starfall and generally I don't have to AoE much outside of trash and lashers on Freya which we have more than enough aoe for.
I personally recommend to put points in Brambles.
- As far as I recall, brambles has significantly higher dps than Genesis, even more after the latest change (scales with caster SP). It is a good combo with FoN.
- Owlkin Frenzy is situational. It only shows its power at fights with a high frequency of incoming damage attacks.
contra brambles: it does not support your personal damage
Btw, has someone calculated numbers for the new brambles scaling with caster SP?
If I missed it, thanks for posting the reference here.
I personally recommend to put points in Brambles.
- As far as I recall, brambles has significantly higher dps than Genesis, even more after the latest change (scales with caster SP). It is a good combo with FoN.
- Owlkin Frenzy is situational. It only shows its power at fights with a high frequency of incoming damage attacks.
contra brambles: it does not support your personal damage
Btw, has someone calculated numbers for the new brambles scaling with caster SP?
If I missed it, thanks for posting the reference here.
Base Thorns is 6.6% scaling.
Throw in 3/3 Brambles, that jumps to 11.55%.
Throw in E&M Debuf and you're at 13.05%
so as far as 3.1.2, is mana regen still intensity>dreamstate?
and i think i remember reading somewhere that the first point of dreamstate is better than first point of intensity, so would it maybe be good to do 3pt. intensity and 1pt. dreamstate (as for whatever reason i have 3pt dream/1pt intensity)
just wanted to clarify to see if i just forgot why i specced the way i did or if i had a dumb moment when i specced... lol
also does anyone have the scales as of latest patch of how stats scale against eachother? havent found much on how everything is for latest patch, only before it.
Where are you going to free up 1-2 points from your dps talents to get 3/3 regen + 1/3 dreamstate?
Dunno about you but I personally can't free up a point in my balance tree for 3/3 intensity, unless I want to drop trees or starfall.
Then again it also depends on your gear and what you're raiding.
Looking at Armory, he did drop Treants and Starfall.
Intensity is better. The first point in Dreamstate may be equivalent if you have very high Int and low Spi. But in general, I can't see needing 4 points in those two talents. It's really seeming pretty hard to justify anything beyond Moonglow/OoC, in fact.
Where are you going to free up 1-2 points from your dps talents to get 3/3 regen + 1/3 dreamstate?
Dunno about you but I personally can't free up a point in my balance tree for 3/3 intensity, unless I want to drop trees or starfall.
Then again it also depends on your gear and what you're raiding.
well... i dont have starfall, trees, gale winds or typhoon... so its easy lol
personally, i dont like galewinds. all it does is make you look better on trash, and besides that, trash dies fast enough anyways, so dont see 2 pts in it being THAT usefull... maybe it is, but eh its just trash to me.
treants... meh its fun to play with, like typhoon, but other than a few fights it doesnt really hold its own.
btw, havent done any ulduar, so i dunno how this all effects that. but as far as before uld, those kinda didnt appeal to me.
edit:
@ arawethon
i might not need it, i just remember having hugeeeeeee mana problems before, quite possibly may have changed since ive gotten a lot more geared since i specced this way. i just like having at least one just in case i have to innervate someone else. i pug everything, as im usually not on during the prime raiding times, so the raid comps are NEVER perfect lol. might not have all the buffs available to me.
Naxx has a massive amount of trash so picking up Gale winds would boost your overall dps if you can proc ooc and have endless hurricane spam. Remember its 30% to hurricane.
You're underrating treants in my opinion, popping treants before bloodlust and having jol up on the boss means trees will do some tasty damage and the jol is self healing so they should stay up for the full duration.
Starfall is the only spell I would say thats optional - in my opinion.
so as far as 3.1.2, is mana regen still intensity>dreamstate?
and i think i remember reading somewhere that the first point of dreamstate is better than first point of intensity, so would it maybe be good to do 3pt. intensity and 1pt. dreamstate (as for whatever reason i have 3pt dream/1pt intensity)
just wanted to clarify to see if i just forgot why i specced the way i did or if i had a dumb moment when i specced... lol
also does anyone have the scales as of latest patch of how stats scale against eachother? havent found much on how everything is for latest patch, only before it.
Originally Posted by Selini
Where are you going to free up 1-2 points from your dps talents to get 3/3 regen + 1/3 dreamstate?
Dunno about you but I personally can't free up a point in my balance tree for 3/3 intensity, unless I want to drop trees or starfall.
Then again it also depends on your gear and what you're raiding.
Originally Posted by 66gt40lm
well... i dont have starfall, trees, gale winds or typhoon... so its easy lol
personally, i dont like galewinds. all it does is make you look better on trash, and besides that, trash dies fast enough anyways, so dont see 2 pts in it being THAT usefull... maybe it is, but eh its just trash to me.
treants... meh its fun to play with, like typhoon, but other than a few fights it doesnt really hold its own.
btw, havent done any ulduar, so i dunno how this all effects that. but as far as before uld, those kinda didnt appeal to me.
edit:
@ arawethon
i might not need it, i just remember having hugeeeeeee mana problems before, quite possibly may have changed since ive gotten a lot more geared since i specced this way. i just like having at least one just in case i have to innervate someone else. i pug everything, as im usually not on during the prime raiding times, so the raid comps are NEVER perfect lol. might not have all the buffs available to me.
Sentences are great
but you do not need to have
a line for each one.
Also, topical, Gale Winds is useful on XT (kinda, if you're an add-bitch), Kologarn kinda, Freya for sure. Haven't done Thorim, Vezax, or Yogg, yet, so I'm unsure on them. In T7, you'd want it on Sarth+, to make the whelps go down faster, Gluth, Noth, maaaaaybe Gothik live side, that's it I think. Yeah, it's really useful on trash, too. Either way is fine, really. Trees and Starfall, though, at this point are pretty mandatory. They're both incredibly powerful talents, and trees have AoE avoidance now, so they have much higher survivability than they used to.
Though, really, if you're working on T7 content, and you have such little mana that you're forced to drop Trees, Starfall, Typhoon, and Gale Winds to pick up mana regen, you're doing something wrong. Either your spec is off, or you're spamming moonfire or something.
Well IF you read instead of quoting everything, I said im not to ulduar and that I USED to have mana probs... maybe not now, but I dont know. Again, I pug EVERYTHING. Its not a matter of something Im doing wrong now, but what I may have done before. I do, and have done, exceptional damage on bosses with the gear I have.
I cant raid with any guild on my server because I work during the main raid times, so perfect raid comps basically are nonexistant. Even if I didnt fully have mana problems one raid, I might the next cause there may be 15 of one class that has useless buffs/no buffs and none of another that has buffs. So I would like to keep at least one of the mana talents at anytime for that reason, and incase another person (healers) need innervate long before I do. I dont necessarily want to do 10 naxx, but Im trying to get at least the T7 helm cause I have the leggards of the boneyard just waiting for the 4 piece bonus to finally be switched around lol.
sarth is a pain to run with any drakes with pugs, as much as I try to convince them they dont want to. best Ive done was 1D 25man (tried 1D 10, but they made it harder than it really is and it was a fail to say the least)
but thank you for the treants knowledge. i will more than likely spec those again. i always liked them, but they didnt always get full use...
Well IF you read instead of quoting everything, I said im not to ulduar and that I USED to have mana probs... maybe not now, but I dont know. Again, I pug EVERYTHING. Its not a matter of something Im doing wrong now, but what I may have done before. I do, and have done, exceptional damage on bosses with the gear I have. I cant raid with any guild on my server because I work during the main raid times, so perfect raid comps basically are nonexistant. Even if I didnt fully have mana problems one raid, I might the next cause there may be 15 of one class that has useless buffs/no buffs and none of another that has buffs. So I would like to keep at least one of the mana talents at anytime for that reason, and incase another person (healers) need innervate long before I do.
This post feels overly defensive, and nobody was being harsh enough to warrant it. So, cool your jets; We don't need your life story. While raid buffs are nice (most notably replenishment), but they are far from essential for moonkin mana. I recommend you try and keep as few regen talents as possible in this order: OOC > Intensity > Moonglow > Dreamstate (while Moonglow may be slightly less regen than Dreamstate it benefits from having to give up less to get it).
To answer your previous question, except for absurdly low values of spirit Intensity is going to be better than Dreamstate.
A demonstration with some simple #s:
-First Point of Dreamstate w/ 1200 int: 48 mp5 = .04(1200)
-First point of Intensity w/ 1200 int, 600 spirit: 95.68 mp5 = 5*(0.001 + sqrt(1000)*500*.0059326)*.17
-First point of Intensity w/ 1200 int, 300 spirit: 52.41 mp5 = 5*(0.001 + sqrt(1000)*300*.0059326)*.17
(Note: You have a little over 310 spirit with motw/ds/kings and absolutely 0 spirit through gear/enchants)
So now that it's confirmed that the 3.1.3 patch fixing our set bonus will go live tonight, what peice will everyone be using off-set? I was looking thru things to dispute it but it seems pretty solid to go with the Freya25 hard mode pants; [Leggings of the Enslaved Idol].
I am still leaning towards [Vestments of the Blind Denizen]. I was planning on using the robes of umbral brute as my off set item and when these came out they were good enough for me to forgo the cloth robes (you gain a good amount of spellpower [when you consider sockets] with the Denizen's chest at the cost of ~58 crit rating).
The Enslaved leggings give you minor upgrades to the t8.5 legs pretty much across the board: (12 Int, 1 Crit, 11 Hit, 7 Spell Power, 1 Socket)
does the change to t8 4pc change the dps increase substantially so as to warrant actually using it? i've read most of the boomkin forums except for maybe the last page or two of this one, and it's just about universal that 4pc t8 blows. hoping maybe adorielle or hamlet can enlighten me.
if there is a reason to warrant using 4pc i guess squawk and awe is just gonna get a little more complicated :x
does the change to t8 4pc change the dps increase substantially so as to warrant actually using it? i've read most of the boomkin forums except for maybe the last page or two of this one, and it's just about universal that 4pc t8 blows. hoping maybe adorielle or hamlet can enlighten me.
if there is a reason to warrant using 4pc i guess squawk and awe is just gonna get a little more complicated :x
I haven't done any detailed math myself, or seen any to speak of, but I think it's going to be worthwhile, yes.
Using this specific attempt to try and value 4pc t8.
So if I take my average hit and crit and average those my average SF is valued at 8,712 dmg.
My IS had 81 ticks and at 8% that gives me 6.48 procs or 6 instant Starfires.
In a raid my non NG'd SF is ~2.3 seconds and NG'd is ~1.9 seconds.
Again averaging that a single starfire takes ~2.1 seconds.
An instant Starfire will incur the GCD of ~1.3 (maybe 1.2?) seconds. [can anyone verify?]
This means that 6 starfires that should have taken 12.6 seconds will only take 7.2 seconds to complete saving me 4.4 seconds. Using the 2.1 average cast time this means I comfortably fit 2 extra starfires into the fight which is ~17,424 damage.
DPS on that fight before 4pc t8 = 918991/230 = 3995.6
DPS on that fight with the extra SF damage = 936415/230 = 4071.4
04/16/09, 7:22 AM
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