well... i dont have starfall, trees, gale winds or typhoon... so its easy lol

personally, i dont like galewinds. all it does is make you look better on trash, and besides that, trash dies fast enough anyways, so dont see 2 pts in it being THAT usefull... maybe it is, but eh its just trash to me.

treants... meh its fun to play with, like typhoon, but other than a few fights it doesnt really hold its own.

btw, havent done any ulduar, so i dunno how this all effects that. but as far as before uld, those kinda didnt appeal to me.

edit:

@ arawethon

i might not need it, i just remember having hugeeeeeee mana problems before, quite possibly may have changed since ive gotten a lot more geared since i specced this way. i just like having at least one just in case i have to innervate someone else. i pug everything, as im usually not on during the prime raiding times, so the raid comps are NEVER perfect lol. might not have all the buffs available to me.

Sentences are great
but you do not need to have
a line for each one.

Also, topical, Gale Winds is useful on XT (kinda, if you're an add-bitch), Kologarn kinda, Freya for sure. Haven't done Thorim, Vezax, or Yogg, yet, so I'm unsure on them. In T7, you'd want it on Sarth+, to make the whelps go down faster, Gluth, Noth, maaaaaybe Gothik live side, that's it I think. Yeah, it's really useful on trash, too. Either way is fine, really. Trees and Starfall, though, at this point are pretty mandatory. They're both incredibly powerful talents, and trees have AoE avoidance now, so they have much higher survivability than they used to.

Though, really, if you're working on T7 content, and you have such little mana that you're forced to drop Trees, Starfall, Typhoon, and Gale Winds to pick up mana regen, you're doing something wrong. Either your spec is off, or you're spamming moonfire or something.

Well IF you read instead of quoting everything, I said im not to ulduar and that I USED to have mana probs... maybe not now, but I dont know. Again, I pug EVERYTHING. Its not a matter of something Im doing wrong now, but what I may have done before. I do, and have done, exceptional damage on bosses with the gear I have.
I cant raid with any guild on my server because I work during the main raid times, so perfect raid comps basically are nonexistant. Even if I didnt fully have mana problems one raid, I might the next cause there may be 15 of one class that has useless buffs/no buffs and none of another that has buffs. So I would like to keep at least one of the mana talents at anytime for that reason, and incase another person (healers) need innervate long before I do. I dont necessarily want to do 10 naxx, but Im trying to get at least the T7 helm cause I have the leggards of the boneyard just waiting for the 4 piece bonus to finally be switched around lol.
sarth is a pain to run with any drakes with pugs, as much as I try to convince them they dont want to. best Ive done was 1D 25man (tried 1D 10, but they made it harder than it really is and it was a fail to say the least)

but thank you for the treants knowledge. i will more than likely spec those again. i always liked them, but they didnt always get full use...

*edited for silly typos

This post feels overly defensive, and nobody was being harsh enough to warrant it. So, cool your jets; We don't need your life story. While raid buffs are nice (most notably replenishment), but they are far from essential for moonkin mana. I recommend you try and keep as few regen talents as possible in this order: OOC > Intensity > Moonglow > Dreamstate (while Moonglow may be slightly less regen than Dreamstate it benefits from having to give up less to get it).

To answer your previous question, except for absurdly low values of spirit Intensity is going to be better than Dreamstate.
A demonstration with some simple #s:
-First Point of Dreamstate w/ 1200 int: 48 mp5 = .04(1200)
-First point of Intensity w/ 1200 int, 600 spirit: 95.68 mp5 = 5*(0.001 + sqrt(1000)*500*.0059326)*.17
-First point of Intensity w/ 1200 int, 300 spirit: 52.41 mp5 = 5*(0.001 + sqrt(1000)*300*.0059326)*.17
(Note: You have a little over 310 spirit with motw/ds/kings and absolutely 0 spirit through gear/enchants)

I am still leaning towards [Vestments of the Blind Denizen]. I was planning on using the robes of umbral brute as my off set item and when these came out they were good enough for me to forgo the cloth robes (you gain a good amount of spellpower [when you consider sockets] with the Denizen's chest at the cost of ~58 crit rating).

The Enslaved leggings give you minor upgrades to the t8.5 legs pretty much across the board: (12 Int, 1 Crit, 11 Hit, 7 Spell Power, 1 Socket)

does the change to t8 4pc change the dps increase substantially so as to warrant actually using it? i've read most of the boomkin forums except for maybe the last page or two of this one, and it's just about universal that 4pc t8 blows. hoping maybe adorielle or hamlet can enlighten me.

if there is a reason to warrant using 4pc i guess squawk and awe is just gonna get a little more complicated :x

I haven't done any detailed math myself, or seen any to speak of, but I think it's going to be worthwhile, yes.

Your wrath casts are generally going to always be half the cast time of your starfires, and your wrath casts are what your GCD is at. So if your average starfire cast is 2.1 seconds your average wrath and GCD should be 1.05 seconds.

It gets a little more complicated than that, partly since Nature's Grace has higher uptime during Lunar Eclipse's than otherwise but mostly since with sufficient (>409) haste rating you will be capped at 1s GCD. In the specific example you quoted the person had a 1.9s Starfire in NG, which would imply that he's exceeded the haste soft cap and is getting diminishing returns on his 4T2 procs.

As for the original post in question...

Your general method isn't wrong as such, but your execution is a bit lacking.

First, your NG uptime on Starfires will generally not be 50% and so your average cast time is a weighted average, not a straight arithmetic one. A quick check of my total uptime is about 60% going by parse numbers and presumably higher during Starfire spam due to Eclipse, yours is presumably yet higher due to better gear. Second, your GCD length will vary between 1.15 seconds outside of NG and 1 second in NG. Finally, you're doing a lot of rounding for no particular reason. A slightly more accurate analysis is that 6.48 procs is really 6.48 instant Starfires, each of which saves on average (with 60% NG uptime) 0.6*0.9+0.4*1.15 = 1 second. In 6.48 seconds you'd cast 3.15 Starfires (again with 60% NG uptime), for 27 404 damage or 119 DPS in that particular fight.

Of course, this is also off by a fair amount. For a decent evaluation you'd need accurate values for your NG'd and non-NG'd cast times to start with as well as a lot more than 230 seconds of casting as a sample. You'd also need to know your exact IS uptime, then take into account some 4-piece procs being effectively unusable due to occurring in the Wrath phase of a Lunar cycle, then model the interaction between shorter casts and lag, and so on until you end up rewriting either Rawr or WrathCalcs. Unless this concept sounds instantly appealing you should probably just call the set bonus 100ish DPS and use Rawr or WrathCalcs if you desperately crave detail.

Was just trying to get a rough idea on some numbers for the 4pc to use, I think in that particular parse NG was only up 53% of the time so I stuck with 50%. NG (depending on the fight) I have seen anywhere between 45-65% uptime, as well, making the value of the 4pc change on each fight.

As you said though it would require some rewriting that I am not interested in (nor was I trying to), I was just throwing some numbers out there in hopes to provide an approximate value. I am content with estimating it at ~100 DPS for now though.

I can't make head or tail of your question, but erase whatever random crap you've heard and start here:
http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t59457-m...dated_3_1_3_a/