Uday

I have mana problems a few times throughout a naxx run. There are more times on a naxx run where mana is an issue than there are times where I am worried about a .032% DPS increase per point. This will likely change when I have a few more pieces of gear and switch to a SF priority rotation.

 

Layeth

edited: I misunderstood something, my apologies!

 

dukes

The count is the number of hits, not the number of casts. 12 hits at a 69% crit rate with 0 misses is 31% of total casts. If you click on Starfire to expand it, this is quite clear (and shows 12 hits / 27 crits).

edit; what's with people editing their posts as I reply :<

 

Saintrancid

Your right it is cheesed a bit. heres a few others i've stumbled across. apologies if they have been posted

this one is very close to 5k. 4 minute fight.

Wow Web Stats

and an actual 5k parse 3 min fight.

Wow Web Stats

 

erragal

Since people seem to want some decent WWS reports:

Wow Web Stats

4735 on a 3'35" fight.

Notes:

Didn't get the full duration of my second Force of Nature due to fight duration.

We do not have an elemental shaman or demo lock so I am stuck with normal flametongue totem.

My current gear is significantly different than it was during this parse. I acquired my offhand, idol, shoulders, and pants all after this occured. Was done with six pieces of level 70 loot. Most of those other high parses are all showing 4pT7.

Even with not getting the full time to DPS, FoN was worth almost the same damage contribution as moonfire.

 

Eilt

I think I am going to be dropping Intensity (I never even come close to oom) so I will be picking up Owlkin or Brambles and I am leaning towards brambles. Here is my question though. On a fight where I can get 2 FoN off, should I not worry about the heroism?

Basically my logic is this, a heroism will probably come 1/2 to 3/4 into the fight, so if I cast FoN at the start of an encounter it may or may not be up for the heroism call, is it worth it to do this to get 2 FoN, or is 1 FoN druing heroism going to outweigh it?

 

• Arawethion

I would just assume that 2 FoN is 2 FoN, while one with Bloodlust is 1.3 FoN.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

• Adoriele

Heroism increases haste by 30%. Which is greater: 130% or 200%?

 

slazareth

With the upcoming changes to Starfall, its becoming a rather crummy max tree talent.

It no longer break stealth
It stops working if you shift
It stops working if you lose control of your character

I don't understand how blizz is coming up with the conclusion that starfall is op? Why do they keep nerfing it into infinity? I believe I will soon drop it for another point in owlkin or put a final point in eclipse to make it a little more predictable. (stupid RNG)

 

skeldi

consider: it could do upwards of 1200 damage every 2 seconds while stunned, from long range, no matter what.

While I agree that's practically nothing against someone with 25,000 health, I believe that is their reason. Though honestly, treants do 1200 damage each every 2 seconds, and they haven't nerfed those.

Starfall really needs a buff, and the new glyph isn't it.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

It already stopped working while you were stunned, I don't think that's actually a change.

 

Erdluf

A Brambles note that I haven't seen on these boards, (and was a surprise to me): The +75% Thorns damage applies only to the Thorns you cast on yourself. It isn't going to give your tank (or your PvP teammates) a boost.

 

Namsar

Correct....

Wow Web Stats

Corelli Has 3/3 Brambles and cast every one of those thorns.. As you can see it's based off the person receiving the thorns spell damage.

Edit: Actually that doesn't prove that brambles does anything or not simply how the scaling works, will make sure to test 1 tank with unbrambled thorns, and 1 with next run.

 

Marauding Master

I don't see how being able to shift would make it OP but it's sickening to see it no longer breaking Stealth. It was pretty much our only defense against Rogues. I'll still pick it up, but it's not a proper 51-talent anymore.

 

dukes

Other than Moonkin form giving armour, Thorns doing a lot of damage return, Barkskin being usable while stunned, having Abolish Poison in Moonkin form now, and Typhoon removing stealth in a huge area.

Yes, no defences at all.

Calling it "not a proper 51 point talent" is pretty weird. The majority of 51 point talents are situationally good, medium-low cooldown abilities, with a few that are almost defining of their tree (such as Hunger for Blood) but need to be that way due to how the tree was structured in previous expansions.

Their reasoning on it breaking on form shift was due to being able to go travel form with it active and unstealthing a very large area of ground. The stealth change has changed this, so I'm not sure about the change. I can confirm that it definitely doesn't work while stunned (first Maexxna I found this out due to activating it just before a web wrap at one point at it not working through the stunned period).

 

Eilt

My thought on starfall was that it was supposed to remove people from stealth...Blizzard is fine letting it stop on shapeshift or stun/loss of character, but why do they over nerf it to near useless in PvP? This is the same thing they did to Hurricane, yes the regen on it was way OP, but they nerfd its regen and its ability to proc OoC, when just removing the mana regen portion would have easily sufficed. And while Blizzard has stated that we will not be able to AE pull instances in the future, I know we still do it for every pull in Naxx and it is terrible sitting and drinking while everyone else is at the next pack.

ninja edit: GG Reading ALL of the patch notes and not just the first section of Druid changes

 

erragal

Abolish Poison in moonkin form is on the current PTR.

Starfall isn't useless in PVP by any stretch of the imagination. It's probably the single most powerful group crowd control ability in the game. I'm not in favor of it being 'turned off' when stunned, but none of the changes actually keep it from doing what it does best: stunning multiple people while you can freely nuke. It just may not be an ability you use to start a fight; wait till your opponents use their stuns already. It still works while feared and we can't be polymorphed/hexed in moonkin form either. Balance has some significant weaknesses in PVP (Mostly due to blizzard overvaluing armor as a damage mitigation stat and not acknowledging how much non-physical damage most melee classes use) but Starfall isn't one of them.

Last I checked Starfall can't remove people from stealth on live already. If they're stealthed the star's will not consider them a valid target. You can break stealth people that get hit by the splash damage from another persons star however, and this may still be the case on the PTR. What it really does is prevent moonkin from being the perfect counter-class to double stealth teams in arena.

If you're drinking after every aoe pack then you aren't letting your hurricane channel through or you're trying to cast too many typhoons. OoC does proc from hurricane still, it's just more along the realm of 50-60% as opposed to a guarentee.

 

dukes

They nerfed the proc rate by ~1/3rd - previously it was pretty ridiculous because you could virtually guarentee a proc from casting it on 2+ mobs - now you have to make sure you're casting it on ~4+ and you should be alright for mana. I AoEed virtually the entire way through the Patchwerk trash (apart from the starting Aboms) and didn't have any mana problems because the packs are perfectly big enough. Re-evaluate how many mobs there are before casting the next hurricane - if there's only 3 and they're low health, don't bother with another hurricane but just single target (or, if you have a clearcast, use Typhoon). It shouldn't be hard to stay on mostly full mana during trash, you just need to be paying attention to it most of the time rather than blindly spamming hurricane and typhoon. Pay attention when hitting Typhoon aswell - I find myself using a lot of clearcasting procs on it due to proccing off the last couple of ticks of Hurricane if I'm not paying attention, which wastes a lot of mana.

 

Erdluf

Intimidating Shout, trained at level 22, seems superior (Instant, up to 5 targets within 8 yards feared for 8s). Maybe this is just a "grass is greener" view.

Starfall has more range, does some damage, and can potentially hit more targets, but last I checked:

On average, a target has to be hit by between 4 and 5 stars to get stunned (3s for first stun, stuns on DR).
Only targets near the Druid get "splash" damage, and no more than one splash per second per target.
Only two targets are hit by the big (non-splash) stars each second.

If you use Starfall against an opponent in melee range, he probably has 2-3s to incapacitate you before he gets stunned. At range, he has 4-5s (on average) to incapacitate you (or dispell or spellsteal, if those still work) or to get out of range or vanish.

 

erragal

I hate having to be the devil's advocate for Starfall because of how flawed I feel moonkin PVP viability is right now but I really think you're undestimating the value of the 36 yard range. You do know that the splash damage stuns too, right? It may not always be useful, but Starfall has the potential to absolutely change the outcome of a large scale fight in a way that most single abilities do not.

All that said I would trade it for a school-lockout counterspell or even de-target feign type ability in a heartbeat. I'm going to be pvp'ing a bit more this season in 2v2 with a prot warrior (Control + controlled burst team) so I'll be interested to see if it has this level of impact in that environment.

EDIT: They did make it undispellable, I've never seen it spellstolen yet. One other advantage it has: most people don't really know that it's happening or how to stop it yet. If you can get someone to waste their trinket on a Starfall stun you're putting yourself in a great position to keep them out of the fight with cyclone.

 

slazareth

according to a blue post you can shift to moonkin/caster form all you want while starfall is up. you cannot however shift to any other form. This is much better. It would suck to try to pop a heal and lose starfall.

The issue of losing control of your character killing starfall, that's just ridiculous. That's part of the reason I think the spell is worth while. A rogue stuns you and you've got starfall up. you may get off a stun on him which gives you a chance to get away, get a heal off, or cyclone etc. Now, as soon as a rogue is on you, or you get feared, your starfall is wasted gg blizz. 51 point talent beaten by skills learned before lvl 20 with no talent points required.

 

slazareth

@ erragal - I would loooooove to get a school lockout counterspell. perhaps Imp Typhoon? And as for the feign death ability, I think you're referring to Shadowmeld You can't QQ too much though. War stomp is pretty BadA!

 

skeldi

the splash is bad because the star doesn't splash, but rather the area around you. if the star splashed to around it's target, it'd be a lot better.

 

Daylis

Perhaps it's been mentioned before, but i dont remember seeing it anywhere.

Say you've 2 moonkins in raid, is it worth for one to drop Earth and Moon since the other one is applying it?


My guess is that it's not, since you get 1% spellpower for 1 talent point, which is better than compared to Imp. Shapeshifter (5 points for 4%), which we all take.

 

slazareth

I believe that is a big reason blizz added the % to spellpower. Otherwise only one moonkin would need the talent, but it really is a necessary talent. As well, it would suck to have to respec everytime that other moonkin doesn't make it to the raid.