An interesting thought. Depending on the way they set up the "dual-spec" idea, you could have one spec with the imp.MotW and one without and switch after buffing - They really are going to have to think the mechanism of this through well when the implement it!. I personally ususally have a resto druid or boomkin in raid with me so I go 5/5 furor just for the convenience of the 100% chance. But then, I have always liked having intensity for the convenience of instant rage as well (shame I can't afford the points there anymore).

Please re-direct me to the appropriate thread if there is one, however, I have been unable to find it.

I have noticed several top-guild MT druids on my server with points taken out of R&T, others without IM. Now I realize that a druid that OT's and does some Cat DPS may want to spec differently, however, this doesn't seem to explain it and it seems to me that we must use a slightly different rotation.

Also Kalbear has mentioned swipe being our most used attack.

Looks like we could use some discussion (or a new thread) on Bear Rotations, I know it is simpler than cat but it does change for short fights, fights with adds, different specs etc... For instance I spec 5/5 R&T and (in a normal 2+ minute tanking situation) I use maul in addition to mangle/lacerate/DR/FF. Should I be laying off the maul for swipe? Am I missing something here? Feel free to discuss some of your rotations and be sure to mention relevant speccing.

No, Maul is the best attack you will ever have, the only thing that has priority over maul if you're rage starved is keeping up a stack of lacerate, and mangle. Any other filler attacks including swipe spam, are worth much less threat per rage than maul is, even when you include the rage lost due to not getting a white hit.

What does more damage (or which combination of) R&T/IM/MSS?


(I deleted the rest of this post as it was confusing.)

ha just read that... it only applies in cat form... that changes things up quite a bit have been speccing into it for a while now. thanks for the reply.

So that said would you say this is probably the best MT spec?

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft


As you were saying you could put the 3 points of IW somewhere else if you have a DK or another Feral put on the debuff (for example points could go in PT if you were focusing on KT).

KT doesn't stun or fear the MT. It would do nothing for him. PT is a waste of talent points for PvE.

For pure independence I'd go with 5/5 feral aggression over NS/MS. 4% more damage is really unnecessary for bears, and 4% less damage taken is great if you don't have a warrior to cover that debuff. But really, it very much depends on your role in the raid. If you're doing only tanking, that's a fine build. If you're expected to tank and dps some, it's quite horrible. It's really bad for soloing without the imp LotP.

So do you know how much ILotP actually helps the healers out? Is it worthwhile in a 25 man? I have noticed myself on the healing meters in 10 mans with 4 or 5 percent of healing done while specced with ILotP. It seems like it is worthwhile in a 10 man at least. What do you think?

I'm in a 10-man guild as a classic OT -- I switch from tanking to DPS from fight to fight or night to night so I need the best mix of cat and bear talents I can get. I just haven't been able to find room for ILotP. I'd have to dump Primal Precision or some other critical talent for it and it has never felt more than "nice", never necessary. Even soloing I rarely do more than cast an occasional heal and almost never, ever eat or drink.

So don't feel bad if you can't squeeze it in, though of course this topic is tanking so if you don't have to DPS you can dump a cat talent for it.

You could actually dump 2 points (or one each) from improved mangle or infected wounds. IW can actually be a hazard in certain cases, depending on your role (by causing extra enraged blazes on Sartharion, for instance), while improved mangle isn't worth as much to an OT/DPS as it is to a MT who's in a lot of long term situations where they need to really pump their threat. Pre-3.0.8, I main tanked with 1/3 improved mangle and got along fine, though I know there's a lot of concern about our current threat generation in some circles, so I'd perhaps be more nervous about it now. Of course, you'll want the glyph of mangle if you're going to go that route, but one assumes that a 'classic OT/DPS' would most likely already have it (I assume you've gone Rip/Mangle/Maul for glyphs).

All that being said, if your raid is getting along fine without ILotP, no reason to respec just to get it, obviously.

Just a clarification to thalys: there is no point for bears in taking 1 or 2 points in improved mangle. It doesn't help at all.

The glyph of mangle is pretty useless; you'll still want to use mangle every time it's active when you're tanking one target, and two times in 6 seconds is more than adequate. Plus it's not as critical to a bear that mangle be up any more, given how much better swipe is on threat.

So Kalbear are you saying that we should use swipe during a normal (single target) tanking rotation? I do not understand how mangle/IM effects swipe?