I find myself using stuns all the time in ulduar, on both trash and boss fights. 1 sec extra duration and 30 seconds lower cooldown is in my opinion better investment than demoralizing roar. My current tank build is this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft , and so far i like it the most of all the builds i tested so far.
Maybe hard modes will change my attitude towards demoralizing roar, but at the time i dont think it is necessary, at least not for druid tanks.
It's true that going from 60 sec bash to 30 sec bash does not make a big difference, but at least it's a key I use now. With 1 min cd I just NEVER used it at all. Other classes are more suited to interrupts, but I like being able to just have a mob stop attacking me for some time, think of it as an "added Barkskin" on trash and an additional safety button when you need to interrupt a boss.
I don't find I need the extra threat coming from OOC, in Ulduar I'm very very rarely at 0 rage, what I agree with is that the 2% loss from naturalist can be a problem. I usually don't have aggro problems, except very early in the fight, if a DPS starts attacking while I'm still getting positioned (and so some skills miss due to "out of range"), but with the Ulduar fights requiring some serious DPS, I've had one mage climb dangerusly up on Omen, probably a HS/pyroblast streak. I'll see to get back the point into Naturalist, probably sacrifying 10% damage on swipe.
Mana and furor: on bosses, I can make the time for an enrage, and if farming (as in heroics) I can easily keep the rage bar full by stopping skills before the end of the current pack, so I've never felt the lack of 10 rage as a serious matter. It can be a problem if you have to go cat->bear for an emergency, but for the moment all "emergencies" in Ulduar have ended in wipe (actually we wipe even without emergencies....).
Raiding today for the first time with 3/5 furor I find isn't a problem, usually only takes 2 shifts max to get my 10 rage.
Cleared all the way up to Mimiron with killing Ignis, with my BI build it definitely gets its used up just about every 30 secs. Ignis mobs are nice to stun at 14 stacks and grabbing the 2nd add if its up by then. Freya's mobs are all stun able minus the big tree. the list goes on for pretty much every single boss fight in Ulduar, the few that don't have stun able mobs very few.
Maybe once we have the place on full clear and are working on hard modes BI will change in use, as for now its a very useful ability and will definitely be used a lot.
Naturalist seems almost mandatory based on raged starved situations which do happen in ulduar even with mobs hitting at hard amounts due to initial aggro problems which can arise from taunt missing (even with glyph.) and mobs falling out of range. Have not been using Master shape shifter, doesn't seem worth it for 4/5 points for 2/4% dmg.
My main spec is DPS however I am the resistance and sole tank for Hodir and the AoE tank for Thorim. I am extremely concerned with threat as I tank Hodir in FrR and ranged can do 7-8k dps with the buffs to the point I may just tank in DPS gear to push the achievement timer (heroic). Thorim requires snatching many mobs in a wave off AoE and healers so hit/expertise cap for their level is nice. I am seriously considering using my dps weapon with berserking for threat requirements.
If I were main tanking I would consider imp mangle and either shredding attacks or brutal impact but i'm not. I need to do whatever I can to do threat.
I don't think the Threat difference between Mongoose and Berserking is that significant, but something like [Staff of the Plaguehound] may be worth using over [Origin of Nightmares], while it's an overall mitigation loss, I think the parry reduction may actually help on Hodir more than the armor and 30 agility with Frozen Blows, and it's certainly going to be better threat.
New mangle idol [Idol of the Corruptor] behaves differently than old mangle idol - it refreshes itself. Proc rate is not 100% but quite high (i'd guess 80% but have no precise data yet). Improved mangle increases its importance with this idol, since it increases the idol's uptime. What needs to be analyzed is the uptime difference, i'll try to find some time for testing it.
New mangle idol [Idol of the Corruptor] behaves differently than old mangle idol - it refreshes itself. Proc rate is not 100% but quite high (i'd guess 80% but have no precise data yet). Improved mangle increases its importance with this idol, since it increases the idol's uptime. What needs to be analyzed is the uptime difference, i'll try to find some time for testing it.
My conclusion overall is: If you need threat then go for MMS and iMangle. If you rather not loose some mitigation talent and still want the threat use MSS. If you can stand to loose a bit then use iMangle since it gives a better uptime of the Idol.
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I myself took the 5 points form MSS and put em in iMangle since I have the idol. Without the idol surely go for MSS.
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I have a question about Feral Tanking macros. Does someone have a rundown of the macros or mods they use for Feral tanking? I'm a boomkin, so I'm new to Feral tanking, so this is all new to me. Right now, I just have Mangle, Lacerate, and Swipe on my bar, and they are macroed in with Maul. I don't have Barkskin macroed to anything, but from reading I suppose I should. I'm also not sure if I should be macroing my trinkets to everything to keep their uptime as high as possible, or saving them for the Oh <Profanity> button.
At this time, I'm logged out in my feral gear/spec, but I'll be raiding boomkin tonight (7pm cst), so it will change some time after that. Any advice for a new feral gearing to tank would be appreciated.
I have a question about Feral Tanking macros. Does someone have a rundown of the macros or mods they use for Feral tanking? I'm a boomkin, so I'm new to Feral tanking, so this is all new to me. Right now, I just have Mangle, Lacerate, and Swipe on my bar, and they are macroed in with Maul. I don't have Barkskin macroed to anything, but from reading I suppose I should. I'm also not sure if I should be macroing my trinkets to everything to keep their uptime as high as possible, or saving them for the Oh <Profanity> button.
At this time, I'm logged out in my feral gear/spec, but I'll be raiding boomkin tonight (7pm cst), so it will change some time after that. Any advice for a new feral gearing to tank would be appreciated.
Kinda offtopic, but as to gear I'd say download Rawr (google it). It can give you a good idea of what is valued over other items.
I also think you are confusing macro with hotkey? I don't see where you could use barkskin reliably in a macro. I bound it to a mousekey myself but if you are really talking macro's I would like to know where.
Also add FFF to those macro's with maul too. Mangle > FFF > Swipe and keep lacerate up. Best threat and dps cycle.
It's a whopping 4 buttons, why bother with macros? Might even go up as high as 6 if we include FFF and Demo Roar. Not like Feral tanking is a marvel of complexity really.
Ignorance can be solved with a book. Stupidity requires a shotgun and a shovel.
So are people just pressing two buttons at once to Maul + Lacerate or Maul + Mange or Maul+swipe? I thought they might have had them macroed onto those abilities to use constantly? Or are we only using Maul when rage > 50 (I think that's what I read)?
@Monedula: As for Barkskin, I believe it is off the GCD. I do have it in my current emergency button macro that pops barkskin + frenz regen + SI, and Barkskin activates along with the rest of it. I also have it macroed to my Wrath and Hurricane in boomkin mode to allow me to keep maximum uptime in Ulduar. As far as I know, any ability that is off the GCD can be attached to another ability and will activate just like a trinket would.
So are people just pressing two buttons at once to Maul + Lacerate or Maul + Mange or Maul+swipe? I thought they might have had them macroed onto those abilities to use constantly? Or are we only using Maul when rage > 50 (I think that's what I read)?
I have maul macroed to all my threat moves (mangle, lacerate, swipe, FFF) and do it constantly. Maul is no longer a 'nice to have' when you have rage; it does so much damage that missing basically any other attack or set of attacks is worth it if you maul. The only thing that comes close to beating it is lacerate when the stack could fall off, simply because the expense of a lacerate stack from start is fairly high. The reason I macro is simply that I don't like spamming two buttons when I can spam one.
I personally prefer barkskin, SI and FR to be separate. Barkskin is off GCD. Depending on the fight I'll use it arbitrarily when it's off CD immediately or I'll wait for some specific event or set of events.
04/23/09, 3:37 AM
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