VÃ ndication

Ah i forgot to link my character with my spec one moment ;]

The reason i'm using the infected wounds is cause my warrior ot doesn't know how to Tc alot yet :S

The World of Warcraft Armory

 

kalbear

The primary reason not to do feral aggression is that the reduction of damage is marginal enough that it doesn't help enough, and it's a lot easier for warriors to get those points than it is druids. Still, if you don't have the warrior or it's your role, you should probably pick it up. It will be about an 3-4% physical damage reduction for 5 points, which isn't bad. It's not ideal, and it's not remotely necessary right now, but it could be in the future.

 

Mijae

This is not true. PI is a larger DPS gain and for fewer points. More CPs will only equal more DPS if you don't already get enough to maintain the cycle already. You really only need a 3 CP SR to keep the cycle up. More CPs just means longer SRs and either wasted time or complex non-static cycles that can lead to DPS losses.


As Scient mentioned, tanking needs evolve depending your role and gear. A "full" tank spec should probably max FA. However, even for a full-time MT this really isn't necessary for any current content (unless under-geared). I would think for most of us, a hybrid tank/dps spec is the norm and there just isn't room for it.

Feral DruidStats spreadsheet
v3.2.0.0.xls - updated 8/4/2009

 

Marena

That's exactly what I wanted to point out. In a hybrid spec you do not need FA as it is probably one of the worst tanking talents, but at least it is one. So for fulltime-tanks there is no reason not to take it. And for those druids, who have ever tanked Sartharion +3D, know how close it can get right after a breath.. (I got >50k HP in Staminagear)
There just isn't a better talent left for tanking

 

VÃ ndication

Would this spec be viable?

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I personally think KotJ is a waste of three points over Master Shapeshifter.

would the 8% loss of maul damage be worth the + 30% damg reduc while stunned?

 

Marena

As stated earlier in this thread there is no reason to specc Primal Tenacity for PvE. The only encounters you are getting stunned are Maexxna and maybe Kel'Thuzad.

 

mesullivan

I keep hearing things like this. The problem with Master Shapeshifter is that it is NOT 3 points.

It is 5 points. Unless you were speccing 3/3 natural shapeshifter anyway, and I can't imagine why you would ever spend those 3 points that way in a PvE build, except to get master shapeshifter.

IMO, Master shapeshifter is for PvPers and full time cats. It's just way too expensive for a hybrid or tanking build. There's too much good stuff to spend 5 points getting a 4% dmg increase.

 

◊ Abradix

Yeah except no. First of all Master Shapeshifter costs a total of 5 points, not 8, because natural shapeshifter is only 3 points. Aside from that, the build Vindication posted has almost all "feral" talents you need, except that Primal Tenacity IS a PvP talent and RnT should be maxed.

That's still only 54 points you need in feral, leaving you with a possible 17 anywhere else. Getting Master shapeshifter in a full bear spec is perfectly fine, because you'll end up with a 54/16 build with one point spare with all the bear talents you need, assuming your raid covers the debuffs already. Now alot of people want to spec for those debuffs, in which case yes, Master shapeshifter is the first choice to get those few free points, but it's perfectly possible for any pure build, both cat and bear, to get Master Shapeshifter.

 

kalbear

I just wonder why you'd want master shapeshifter.

If it's for cat, and you're skipping KotJ, you're doing it wrong. KotJ is essential for better DPS.
If it's for bear and you're skipping Rend & Tear, you're doing it wrong. 2 points in Rend & Tear is about equivalent to 2/3rds of Master Shapeshifter.

That being said, it's perfectly viable; you're trading debuffs and utility for damage. I don't think the 4% damage is going to really make the difference, but really there are only about 41 points in the feral tree that you absolutely must take no matter what to be viable to tank every single encounter in the game, currently. All the rest is threat or utility debuffs which can be covered by other classes.

 

◊ Abradix

You're not skipping Rend and Tear for Master Shapeshifter, you're only skipping utility debuffs that other players can/will provide. As for 4% not being very impressive, it's only a little bit, but it beats 0% any time of the day.

 

kalbear

The above build did have 3/5 RnT and had NS/MS. So effectively he is skipping RnT for MS, and I believe that 8% damage to maul is actually better raid damage than 4% overall damage unless facing significantly large amounts of adds as your normal scenario.

My apologies for not making it clear who I was replying to.

 

Keasby

Would putting a single point in to IW be at all effective?

 

Rannasha

Not really, you'd get a 6% attack-slow at 2 stacks. The value of each of the 3 points in IW is equal.

 

lairpie

My favorite thing about feral aggression is that its often going to be a part of a full cat build for the buff to FB, part of a full tank build for the buff to demo roar (depending on other debuffers), and not in a hybrid build where those points have to go elsewhere.

Brewmaster of WBC

 

Boevis

It's actually a loss of Raid DPS having you spec into FA and keep up Demo instead of having a Warlock do it (assuming your locks are any good at Affliction spec) I'm sure they'll cry about "loltank dps" and their own spot on the meters, like mine do. I haven't looked at the warrior math in some time, but I'd imagine it's even less of a DPS/Threat loss for them since you'd most likely pull the points from -rage talents.

 

spensel

Lately I've been rolling with This spec] for tanking 25m raids. The only thing I see as a problem is though the 10 expertise was helpful at first I am currently over-capped sitting with 30+ expertise. I feel there isn't much worth picking up otherwise though since reduced rage cost of lacerate is useless wen you have near infinite rage lol.

 

Mijae

The expertise cap for tanking is somewhere in the 54-60 range. You're not over the cap unless you are behind the target.

Feral DruidStats spreadsheet
v3.2.0.0.xls - updated 8/4/2009

 

spensel

Good to hear, I figured 26 couldn't be cap for tanks. But that just means that when i do kitty deeps im overcapped...which is sad since almost all our set gear is loaded with it and has 0 hit.

 

hypetech

Here's what I use for a pure main tanking build. The warriors always handle the shouting and tclap in the raid, as they should, so I don't need IW or FA, and I'm able to pick up full points in NS, RnT, and iLOTP.

Main Tank Build

As far as some people saying that iLOTP may not be worth it, it tends to heal me for at least 40k+ on fights like Sarth, KT, and Malygos, just so you have an idea of how effective it really is.

 

kalbear

Healing for 40k on those fights is fine - but it's just 40k that would almost certainly be healed by healers anyway. On a lot of fights it's going to basically contribute to other player's overheal.

I don't know why you would ever put one point in KotJ, but to each their own. If I wanted a more effective cat DPS, I'd take the NS/MS points and put them in shredding attacks, KotJ, and PI.

 

hypetech

The 1 point was just floating anyway, so I figured it would be most useful there for a little more snap aggro on a pull with enrage up, and for an energy booster for the rare times when I do go cat form.

 

thebee

Hello All,

First time posting here, been reading these forums for a long time. I am looking through everyone's comments and I wanted to post my patch 3.0.8 spec. Feral - Tank

I have been toying around with a lot as far as mitigating as much damage as possible in all raid boss fights as possible. The way I see it, we have some very nice pure mitigation talents (Infected Wounds, Predatory Instincts, Primal Tenacity, Feral Aggression)

My thing is, getting these seems to me must haves (not sure how many points are needed in feral agression, remember sometime back in the day it was 1).

Anyway, with threat really not being an issue anymore. The damage talents seem useless, preventing as much AoE, non-dodge-able stun damage, and taking few attacks over a 3-5 min fight rank higher in my opinion.

I would like to get your thoughts though.

 

blackhand0114

Honestly that's a bad build if it's trying to be a MT build. Predatory Instinct doesn't even work in bear form last I checked so that's three points wasted. Also Primal Tenacity really wont save your life in any raid boss fight. I think one might that has a stun mechanic is in wrath at the moment. Let's not forget that as soon as your dps are geared they will be pushing much more threat and you are taking away your biggest threat talent(s) by not getting Rend & Tear and Berserk.

 

◊ Abradix

It's quite a bad build as Blackhand said, PI indeed does not work in bear form, and Primal Tenacity is pretty much pointless for everything but Maexxna, so unless you're having serious issues with her it's wasted talent points. On top of that you say you don't really care about threat, yet you take Shredding attacks, which is nothing but a threat talent and a bad one at that, those points are much better spent in RnT/Berserk.

Lastly, if you want to go for a full AP reduction on the boss you need 5/5 Feral Aggression. I'm one to argue that with how easy the game is right now this isn't really neccesary, but if you're having problems with bosses hitting too hard, 5/5 is needed to reduce their AP to the minimum.

 

w01ph

I have a couple of questions, looking to further tweak my spec as my gear, and guild raids progress.

1) TC overrides IW as I'm understanding things, but what I don't know is what other classes have the ability to override IW, Mine is constantly being removed in favor of another, even when not grouped with a warr, and I'm having a hard time narrowing down who it is.

2) It was my understanding that bash was to have a spell interrupt function that would work on raid bosses, is this the case? and if so, how many raid bosses would it actually be useful for?

3) Does the mana return portion of ilotp apply only to me, or does it also apply to my caster dps?

I'm currently using the 'full' tank spec posted by mijae, with the modification of 2/2 imp motw, and 3/5 furor since I am the only druid always in our raids currently, and our warrs do not have imp demo shout. What I'm looking at is if my IW will effectively never be applied, then I can remove those 3 points, and spend them on ilotp for added mana regen for our casters, and at least 1 more point in furor, or brutal impact to interrupt boss spells