Balance Druid - DPS Trinket Discussion - Page 4

Lord BEEF · 12/11/08, 4:05 PM

The difference is that the crusade card required you to stack it up against your target with damage spells.

With Dragon Soul you can spam thorns (or any other spell like lifebloom) to build or keep your stack.

Humbaba · 12/12/08, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by skeldi

It's too bad it'll no longer be overpowered. Hopefully they'll rescind their decision.

Because having something that should be an iLevel 300 legendary makes perfect sense?

skeldi · 12/12/08, 5:36 PM

if they kept the +26 dmg per stack, but only allowed it to stack 7 times (182 damage), I'd be much happier with that nerf.

My biggest problem is the difficulty to ramp it up when you need to get it back up.

bethor · 12/14/08, 2:14 PM

Originally Posted by thedopefishlives

The thing is, though, if that "top end" is so amazing, then we're all going to be farming Sartharion for the next year. Arthas-killing guilds will still be blowing through that instance just for that one trinket, just like Illidan-killing guilds farmed Gruul for the DST. Is that really what you want, or would you rather it be a nice and powerful trinket _now_, but replaceable when T8 comes out and everyone is moving on to newer and more exciting content?

Ignore. misread stuff.

Starfox · 12/14/08, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by bethor

the reason why people did Gruul's was because it was 2 bosses and took 10 minutes

Tier 6 warriors, rogues and shamies did Gruul solely because they needed badges?
Blizzard made that mistake once that an early raid trinket was just too good through serveral raid levels. I am glad they realise that it is not fun to go back into a raid of the first tier just for one drop.
I don't say there should be clearly better items on every slot in every tier of raids, but going from sunwell to gruul for a trinket seemed so ridiculous

Uday · 12/16/08, 10:30 AM

It is still a confusing nerf. Look at it this way, as per flat itemization values spell power is cheaper than spirit. Rare quality gems can have 19 spell power, but only 16 spirit. With this nerf, [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] will be equivalent to 180 spell power, while [Majestic Dragon Figurine] which is 13 item levels lower will offer the same amount of spirit.

• Adoriele · 12/16/08, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Uday

It is still a confusing nerf. Look at it this way, as per flat itemization values spell power is cheaper than spirit. Rare quality gems can have 19 spell power, but only 16 spirit. With this nerf, [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] will be equivalent to 180 spell power, while [Majestic Dragon Figurine] which is 13 item levels lower will offer the same amount of spirit.

I'd counter that, while the Figurine is probably over-budget, its application is such that it could probably be replaced fairly easily. 180 spirit is good for Priests and Restos, until you reach mana-neutrality, and then it's only a minor issue. Left in its current state, IDS would be farmed well into Icecrown unless Blizzard created an even more over-budget trinket somewhere along the line. With the changes, it's still over-budget, but you'll eventually find something better.

dukes · 12/16/08, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Uday

It is still a confusing nerf. Look at it this way, as per flat itemization values spell power is cheaper than spirit. Rare quality gems can have 19 spell power, but only 16 spirit. With this nerf, [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] will be equivalent to 180 spell power, while [Majestic Dragon Figurine] which is 13 item levels lower will offer the same amount of spirit.

The mechanics of use matter in actual value. To get the full value out of spirit you need to stop casting. What does Majestic do? Force you to cast to keep stacks up. You gain while casting, but actually overall lose out on value of the trinket while trying to fully regen due to having to drop the stacks.

The Illustration is simply unbalanced in it's current form due to spells which are not damaging spells being able to keep the stack up. In effect it's a passive trinket for all classes that can use it, due to it being "cast a spell" and not "cast a damaging spell". Sure, it's possible to consider that once a fight on average or whatever the stack will drop, but if you're paying attention it never should and that's the assumption that needs to be made when modelling the value of the trinket.

Manly did a comparison of the top trinkets for mages, and Illustration came out as having a value of nearly 400dps for him, compared to 250dps for the next trinket down. That's completely out line, similar to how good the Dragonspine Trophy was in TBC. It may not be similar for other classes, but then that's not the point.

Smartiepants · 12/16/08, 11:21 AM

I'd argue that the reason it's cast a spell is so that healers can also benefit from the proc.

Eilt · 12/16/08, 1:38 PM

Originally Posted by Smartiepants

I'd argue that the reason it's cast a spell is so that healers can also benefit from the proc.

That may be, but the old cart was a damage dealing one. Sure blizzard might have wanted healers to be able to use it, but I can guarantee you they didn't want anyone casting thorns or fort or any spell 10 times before a boss pull to build the stack up. This is where the problem was with the change from "on damage dealing spell" to any spell.

gnoop · 12/16/08, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

Hopefully once Ulduar comes out we'll see the epic version with a 2-min cooldown similar to the TBC progression. Rawr's not correctly valuing the 5-min cooldown, so I edited it to a 2-min cooldown and it's competitive with the raiding trinkets. I assume they would also add a few stats to it to increase its value from there.

For those who'd like to see how it performs as is, open it in the item editor, and you'll see where the entry for the spellpower on use is (only one entry of 340). Delete that entry, and in the box above it, edit in 136 (the ratio of 5-min cooldown to 2-min cooldown). It's not perfect, but it comes close enough.

The epic JC trinkets were Shattered Sun rep in TBC so part of the Sunwell 2.4 patch. I'm not so sure we'll see the epic JC trinkets for Lich King at only one additional tier in.

In addition to the serpent trinket, I find that the owl trinket can come in handy when I'm one of the designated caster tanks on the 4 Horsemen, at least while my gear is getting updated with Naxx gear.

wonqu · 12/17/08, 7:23 PM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

Left in its current state, IDS would be farmed well into Icecrown unless Blizzard created an even more over-budget trinket somewhere along the line.

Not just one but 2 overbudget trinkets to overpower IDS out of the trinket slots

Creepy_inc · 12/22/08, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by spartakos

There is also [Darkmoon Card: Death] which seems nice. Wowhead says it's 35% proc chance.

It's getting changed to +85 crit rating in next patch.

Zifrelm · 12/26/08, 3:52 PM

I got [Extract of Necromantic Power] (rolling against a destro lock) the other day and have been using it with the badge trinket. Haven't had a ton of time to test it, but I've been getting 1.5-2.5% of my total damage from its procs, depending on the fight. (Tank'n'spank fights like Patchwerk yield lower relative percent damage.)

Do any of you other boomkins have it, and if so, how have your experiences with it been?

It's not as good as [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] or [Embrace of the Spider], but given that I'm easily hit-capped otherwise, I'm not sure any other trinket would be better until I can get one of those two.

Daylis · 12/30/08, 11:18 PM

I'm at a similar issue.
I'm currently at 302hit with 25man malygos neck incoming (+33hit) with Undying Curse as my primary and Sundial as secondary trinket. Far over hit cap already and will be sitting on 335hit in a few days (next year :p) I've 24hit worth of gems i can toss around freely.

Basicaly, i could drop either BoP point (52hit) and balance it with few gem changes to land around cap (with 4hit over cap)

Alternate option is to switch Undying Curse (71hit+excellent proc) and also land right on hitcap. Keeping BoP point but losing trinket option.

So it's basically a dillema between the worth of a talent point and a trinket slot minus Undying Curse proc.
It would seem that a talent point can hardly contribute as much as a trinket can, tough to decide with a great proc as current one has and basically lack of alternative good trinkets.
As a sidenote, i'll be at 565 haste unbuffed and around 2400 spelldamage raidbuffed. Add in Wrath of air totem and improved moonkin form for haste while in raid and i'm definitely sitting on far too much haste for my spelldamage. Just for consideration.

Thoughts?