Cat DPS Rotation - Page 23

Stejo · 02/17/09, 3:32 AM

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

Ferocious Bite vs RIP, mob IS BLEEDING

Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 1, Rip debuff counter: 18, RIPvsFB: 157
Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 2, Rip debuff counter: 16, RIPvsFB: 137
Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 3, Rip debuff counter: 14, RIPvsFB: 116
Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 4, Rip debuff counter: 12, RIPvsFB: 96
Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 5, Rip debuff counter: 10, RIPvsFB: 75
Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 6, Rip debuff counter: 8, RIPvsFB: 55
Use RIP, ticks: 7, Rip debuff counter: 6, RIPvsFB: 34
Use RIP, ticks: 8, Rip debuff counter: 4, RIPvsFB: 14
Use RIP, ticks: 9, Rip debuff counter: 2, RIPvsFB: -6
Use RIP, ticks: 10, Rip debuff counter: 0, RIPvsFB: -26

Ferocious Bite vs RIP, mob is NOT BLEEDING

Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 1, Rip debuff counter: 18, RIPvsFB: 157
Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 2, Rip debuff counter: 16, RIPvsFB: 137
Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 3, Rip debuff counter: 14, RIPvsFB: 116
Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 4, Rip debuff counter: 12, RIPvsFB: 96
Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 5, Rip debuff counter: 10, RIPvsFB: 75
Use Ferocious Bite , Rip ticks: 6, Rip debuff counter: 8, RIPvsFB: 55
Use RIP, ticks: 7, Rip debuff counter: 6, RIPvsFB: 34
Use RIP, ticks: 8, Rip debuff counter: 4, RIPvsFB: 14
Use RIP, ticks: 9, Rip debuff counter: 2, RIPvsFB: -6
Use RIP, ticks: 10, Rip debuff counter: 0, RIPvsFB: -26

I'll have to ask for clarification on those numbers as well.

Why are the two lists identical? (bleeding and not bleeding)
What exactly you mean by not bleeding when you're evaluating rip ticks?
What does the RIPvsFB number at the end of each line represent?

nightcrowler · 02/17/09, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Stejo

I'll have to ask for clarification on those numbers as well.

Why are the two lists identical? (bleeding and not bleeding)
What exactly you mean by not bleeding when you're evaluating rip ticks?
What does the RIPvsFB number at the end of each line represent?

The 2 list are identical for copy and past error. Sorry for it. Look only at "mob is bleeding" the other is unusefull due to old code not removed.

RIPvsFB is the energy thresold at wich FB is Better than RIP. It rapresent the maximum energy usage to make FB more effective than RIP (considering GCD time spend, using shred while waiting rip to expire, and so on). For RIPvsFB < 35, Rip is always better. For RIP vs FB >35 FB is better if you have less than RIPvsFB energy (with the last change is basically always better).

EDIT: Original post changed accordingly.

Allev · 02/17/09, 1:01 PM

Nightcrowler, I think it's only fair to compare mangle spam when wearing 2t6. The DPE becomes similar to shred in that case, so you should see a much smaller DPS drop. Obviously, though, you're taking a stat hit with that change. Otherwise, very useful info, thanks for putting it together. One question I have is: does this simulator have an output of what typical cycles looklike? At a minimum, ratio of rips to FBs; more ideally, something like average SR after a FB. I ask because I'm thinking of an alternating cycle of 5SR/5Rip/5FB and xSR/5Rip, which should keep pretty good uptime for Rip. It also allows a quick-bailout if you get unlucky on crits/OoCs to bail out to a 5SR/5Rip/5SR/5Rip/5FB.

Yukizawa, I think a "wait for energy" state may be applicable in this SR/FB discussion. If you have 10 seconds on rip and 15 on SR, but are at 40 energy, you can get away with waiting a good 5 seconds to refresh your rip. In which case, you might be better off shredding or raking and then refreshing your rip, and wasting a CP.

jonny · 02/17/09, 1:22 PM

I've been playing about with Facemauler on the heroic dummy this afternoon and it's pretty good. Following it's suggested rotation I've been able to get within 70dps of RAWRs suggested dps for a custom rotation of 3 point roars & no bites. I do have a couple of comments though.

Firstly if FFF is on cooldown it is still telling me to apply it. The second is that sometimes the suggested move changes just as the GCD ends. For example it will be telling me to Rip, the GCD sweeps around and within that time Mangle drops off and the suggested move suddenly changes to Mangle. I'm noticing this swap too late and have already hit Rake and so lost mangle uptime. It seems like it should be possible to take the GCD into account to avoid this.

Yukizawa · 02/17/09, 1:55 PM

Originally Posted by jonny

I've been playing about with Facemauler on the heroic dummy this afternoon and it's pretty good. Following it's suggested rotation I've been able to get within 70dps of RAWRs suggested dps for a custom rotation of 3 point roars & no bites. I do have a couple of comments though.

Firstly if FFF is on cooldown it is still telling me to apply it. The second is that sometimes the suggested move changes just as the GCD ends. For example it will be telling me to Rip, the GCD sweeps around and within that time Mangle drops off and the suggested move suddenly changes to Mangle. I'm noticing this swap too late and have already hit Rake and so lost mangle uptime. It seems like it should be possible to take the GCD into account to avoid this.

For the FFF issue, were you using 0.9a or 0.9d (the latest)? It used to tell you to use FFF as it's wait for energy state, even if it was on CD. I don't think I'm checking to see if it's on CD right now, as it only suggests it when it's about to expire, although I suppose resists could be an issue.

For the sudden change issue, I know what you mean. I am going to work on a fix for that tonight. I think I can do it by limiting how often it changes / looking at debuff states one second in the future.

@Allev If you have 10 seconds left on rip, 15 seconds left on SR, 5cp, and 40 energy, isn't that the correct point to FB? That seems to be what nightcrowler is suggest with his formulas, possibly even with slightly more energy if you have long enough on rip.

I think I need to make an option to choose the number of SR combo points, to make it easier to test different rotations. I know most of what I've read suggest 5 point SRs, but I can't figure out why. The spreadsheets / testing I've done show me dropping rip more with 5 point SRs, or refreshing it signficantly early every time. Is that a function of crit level?

Stejo · 02/17/09, 2:57 PM

Originally Posted by Yukizawa

I think I need to make an option to choose the number of SR combo points, to make it easier to test different rotations. I know most of what I've read suggest 5 point SRs, but I can't figure out why. The spreadsheets / testing I've done show me dropping rip more with 5 point SRs, or refreshing it signficantly early every time. Is that a function of crit level?

First of all the addon is excellent, I was pleasantly surprised by it and I recommend it to anyone who has not tried it yet. Now about 3vs5 cp SRs; the difference is cp generation per sec. Maintaining a 5SR/5RIP rotation on a dummy is next to impossible with current gear. In a 25 man raid however the crit and haste gains make a 5SR/5RIP rotation pretty trivial and the question becomes when is the right moment to throw in the FBs. The gain of doing 5cp SR is more space to use FB if in any given cycle you get lucky with OOC procs or back to back crits.

I believe that simply adding a second preset that can be manually selected and switches the cp>=3 for SR check to cp=5 would do the job without messing with the rest of the functionality. On a sidenote I think that this addon probably deserves a separate thread.

Allev · 02/17/09, 6:23 PM

For why to use 5-point SR, take a gander at page 7, post 161 here. Essentially, SR makes more efficient use of CPs to uptime than it uses energy to uptime.

nightcrowler · 02/17/09, 8:02 PM

	if tf < GCD and energy < 40 and berserk < 165 then
		--print "TF"
		return "Tiger's Fury"
	end
	
	if berserk < GCD and energy > 70 and sr > 0 then
		--print "berserk"
		return "Berserk"
	end
	
	if sr < 0.1 then
		if cp >= 1 then
			return "Savage Roar"
		end
	end
	
	
	if rip < 0.1 then
		if cp == 5 then
			--print "RIP"
			return "Rip"
		end
	end
	
	if mangle < 0.1 and trauma <= 0 and cp<5 then
		--print "Mangle"
	    return "Mangle - Cat"
	end


	if ooc > 0 then
	if mangle < GCD then
	    return "Mangle - Cat"
	end
		return "Shred"
	end
	
	if rake < 0.1  and cp<5 then
		--print "Rake"
		return "Rake"
	end
	
	
	if tf < 2 and energy > 30 and berserk < 165 and cp<5 then
		return "Shred"
	end
	
	
	if (energy >= 67 or (berserk >= 165 and energy >= 33 )) and cp<5 then
		--print "Shred"
		return "Shred"
	end
	
	if (energy <= 55 or (berserk >= 165 and energy <= 32) ) and sr >= 5 and rip >= 6 and cp == 5 then
		return "Ferocious Bite"
	end

	if (energy >=55 or (berserk >= 165 and energy <= 32) ) and sr >= 5 and rip >= 6 and cp == 5 then
	if mangle < GCD and trauma <= 0 then
		--print "Mangle"
	    return "Mangle - Cat"
	end
	
		return "Ferocious Bite"
	end

	if sr<5 and rip>=(7-(energy/10)) and cp == 5 then
		return "Savage Roar"
	end

	if energy>=80 and cp == 5 then
		return "Savage Roar"
	end
	
	if energy >= 62 and rip <=2 and cp < 5 then
		return "Shred"
	end


	
	--print "FFF"
	if fff < GCD+6 then
		return "Faerie Fire"
	end
	
	return ""

end

This is FaceMauler decision algoritm changed to match my simulation data (well not exactly but pretty close, and obviosly the cycle I use). I've tryied the addon and I should tanks it. It could be cool if in a future release he will make us able to choce between some different cycles from the interface

. Excelent works keep it going.

Important stats to use that cycle: 0/55/16 spec (with FB talented). More than 50% crit, hit/expertise capped (otherwise the cycle will be too difficult to mantain)

Yukizawa · 02/17/09, 11:09 PM

This is FaceMauler decision algoritm changed to match my simulation data (well not exactly but pretty close, and obviosly the cycle I use). I've tryied the addon and I should tanks it. It could be cool if in a future release he will make us able to choce between some different cycles from the interface

. Excelent works keep it going.

Important stats to use that cycle: 0/55/16 spec (with FB talented). More than 50% crit, hit/expertise capped (otherwise the cycle will be too difficult to mantain)

I made this an alternate algorithm in the most recent version, which will be on curse as soon as it is approved. Thanks for the suggestion.

I also incorporated a number of other suggestions/fixes from this thread / comments / PMs; thanks for all the advice.

Valerian · 02/17/09, 11:19 PM

Hmm even following the facemauler algorithm (both the default and the one posted by Nightcrowler) I cannot match the results in seeing in Rawr (even completely unbuffed). Rawr is giving me values of ~3100 and I'm hitting max 2900. I did just under 10 minutes so I suspect this should be enough to move out most RNG elements.

Does anyone know what exactly the algorithm used for Rawr is? I.e, what "rotation" it is simulating?

Aldhissla · 02/17/09, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Valerian

I did just under 10 minutes so I suspect this should be enough to move out most RNG elements.

No, it's not.

On a more general note, it would be unlikely to perform at the level of the "theoretically simulated maximum" (assuming rawr's model is accurate) anyway - due to human error, bad luck, latency, etc.

nightcrowler · 02/18/09, 12:43 AM

In a 10 minute fight you can see up to 7-8% dps difference.
Rawr is a statistical model, i'm pretty sure it undervalue dps loss for waiting time (it use a fixed SR/RIP rotation)

a civilian · 02/18/09, 1:40 AM

Rawr doesn't use a rotation; it assumes you can always put combo points into rip (with no waste) until you reach 100% uptime. That is, the number of rips over the course of the fight is set as simply

(duration of fight)/(duration of rip)
or
(number of combo points generated over the course of the fight [after subtracting for savage roar])/5,

whichever is less.

Maihes · 02/18/09, 2:42 AM

Thank you to all the info thus far in this thread, the reason I am posting though is about the trackers, quite a few people linked. Of all the ones linked that I tried I couldn't recall which one linked was just a single block of icons.

2 Hours after hitting 80 I was pulling ~3k DPS on Patch, but the timing is still off on everything I am watching. The one addon for displaying the data that I started using mid way through raid was Badkitty. But the base display seems so clunky compared to some pics I saw of others in this thread.

Also how heavily do cats weigh ArP in comparison to other stats. Not gemming wise, base gear wise.

nightcrowler · 02/18/09, 4:56 AM

Originally Posted by a civilian

Rawr doesn't use a rotation; it assumes you can always put combo points into rip (with no waste) until you reach 100% uptime. That is, the number of rips over the course of the fight is set as simply

(duration of fight)/(duration of rip)
or
(number of combo points generated over the course of the fight [after subtracting for savage roar])/5,

whichever is less.

As I said that's why Rawr numbers can't be reached. If you only use RIP in your rotation you will have tons of waiting time. So you need to use FB to avoid waiting time but FB is less DPE than RIP.

nightcrowler · 02/18/09, 4:58 AM

Originally Posted by Yukizawa

I made this an alternate algorithm in the most recent version, which will be on curse as soon as it is approved. Thanks for the suggestion.

I also incorporated a number of other suggestions/fixes from this thread / comments / PMs; thanks for all the advice.

Thanks a lot. I've seen on Curse that you added my algoritm that's cool. On a side note: I can read the fix and news about 0.9e version, but the most recent version on curse is still 0.9d.

EDIT: Damn sorry for double posting.

Stejo · 02/18/09, 7:58 AM

I just tried version 0.9e. Been testing 0.9d extensively earlier, so a couple quick pointers regarding the default algorithm before I test this one more extensively too.

FF check seems to have changed, the icon pops from the moment the timer hits 30 onwards now which is pretty annoying and frankly quite useless. An option to stop suggesting FF usage altogether would be welcome since most ferals are used to do it on every free gcd anyway.

It keeps suggesting to clip the last tick of rake all the time which didn't happen in 0.9d. Don't know if it's intented or not but it's an obvious dps loss. Same behavior for mangle, suggesting to refresh it couple sec before it expired. [edit: apparently same behavior on all abilities, considers them down before they actually expire]

At 45% crit unbuffed on a dummy, cp generation seems to be enough to maintain a 5SR cycle using the default algorithm without sacrificing rip uptime at all. FB flag still raised in very rare occasions and only during berserk. Further testing required here. [Edit: Wrong, disregard]

The alternative algorithm sacrifices a good bit of rip uptime (can't give exact percentage yet) in favor of FB. First couple million dmg done using it shows rip dmg % dropping from 20ish% of total dmg to ~17% while FB becomes ~5% of total dmg which seems to be an overall gain. Total dps output between the 2 algorithms however is very close so far, within statistical error. Will update the post later with more solid numbers.

UPDATE.

Default algorithm, 3SR

Fight duration: 9:58, 3215,1 dps
White 28.5%
Shred 23.6%
Rip 20.9% (87% uptime)
Rake 19.5%
Mangle 4.9%
FB 2.6% (5 entries, 4 crit 1 hit)

Default algorithm, 5SR (done this twice for doublechecking, 2 sets of numbers)

Fight duration: 9:06, 3116,8 dps - 9:38, 3115,6 dps
White 29.3% - 29.7%
Shred 24.5% - 25.3%
Rip 19.9% (80,6% uptime) - 19% (76,1% uptime)
Rake 19% - 19.1%
Mangle 5.1% - 4.8%
FB 2.2% (5 entries, 4 crit 1 hit) - 2% (4 entries, 3 crit 1 hit)

Alternative algorithm.

Fight duration: 9:47, 3186,2 dps
White 29.3%
Shred 25.6%
Rip 18.9% (78.5% uptime)
Rake 17.4%
Mangle 4.6%
FB 4.1% (8 entries, 6 crit 2 hit)

Seems the uptime loss of Rip when doing 5SR cycles is bigger than I estimated initially and the strict limitations for FB usage on the default algorithm don't allow it to make up for the loss. The alternative algorithm basically doubles the amount of suggested FBs without affecting Rip uptime much compared to the 5SR default. The loss in rake is probably due to the clipping since it was the first test I did of the 3 and I wasn't looking out for it as much as I did later.

I don't see much point trying to analyze these results further since they have small value in a real raiding setting. I'll try and test it in some actual fights tonight and come up with more data.

Yukizawa · 02/18/09, 9:02 AM

Originally Posted by Stejo

I just tried version 0.9e. Been testing 0.9d extensively earlier, so a couple quick pointers regarding the default algorithm before I test this one more extensively too.

FF check seems to have changed, the icon pops from the moment the timer hits 30 onwards now which is pretty annoying and frankly quite useless. An option to stop suggesting FF usage altogether would be welcome since most ferals are used to do it on every free gcd anyway.

It keeps suggesting to clip the last tick of rake all the time which didn't happen in 0.9d. Don't know if it's intented or not but it's an obvious dps loss. Same behavior for mangle, suggesting to refresh it couple sec before it expired.

At 45% crit unbuffed on a dummy, cp generation seems to be enough to maintain a 5SR cycle using the default algorithm without sacrificing rip uptime at all. FB flag still raised in very rare occasions and only during berserk. Further testing required here.

The alternative algorithm sacrifices a good bit of rip uptime (can't give exact percentage yet) in favor of FB. First couple million dmg done using it shows rip dmg % dropping from 20ish% of total dmg to ~17% while FB becomes ~5% of total dmg which seems to be an overall gain. Total dps output between the 2 algorithms however is very close so far, within statistical error. Will update the post later with more solid numbers.

I think I know why it's suggesting that you clip rake. I was trying to lower the amount of "spammy" change, so it predicts up to 1 second into the future instead of right now. Obviously, this means you need to wait a little bit if your going to clip, but that's not obvious, so something needs to change. Maybe with move prediction I can turn that back down again. the FFF change was to use FFF if it isn't on cooldown, but that may be too much. I'm still trying to find a good mix for it. I'll tweak it some more tonight.

Blazefire · 02/18/09, 12:52 PM

Thats some really nice work on Facemauler, however it kinda makes me sad that tools like this take the thought process out of playing the game. This would be very similar to the powershifting macros that came out in TBC. It took the skill of powershifting as a DPS boost and turned it into a 1 button spam that any old monkey could do. Now, similar with this mod, you are now just playing simon says, pushing the buttons the mod tells you to instead of making the determination for yourself.

What ever happened to actually playing the games instead of having a mod play for you?

Yukizawa · 02/18/09, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Blazefire

Thats some really nice work on Facemauler, however it kinda makes me sad that tools like this take the thought process out of playing the game. This would be very similar to the powershifting macros that came out in TBC. It took the skill of powershifting as a DPS boost and turned it into a 1 button spam that any old monkey could do. Now, similar with this mod, you are now just playing simon says, pushing the buttons the mod tells you to instead of making the determination for yourself.

What ever happened to actually playing the games instead of having a mod play for you?

I do know what you mean. I wrote this because I didn't like the debuff/buff watchers, as they give you too many things to pay attention to, but I needed something to help me keep track of what needed to come next. I have found that this acts like training wheels. After you get used to the rotation, you end up knowing what will come next without even looking at the mod, and use the mod as a reminder that mangle or rake is down, rather than paying complete attention to it. That, and if you just follow the mod, you will eventually start finding places where the mod is wrong, because of some condition it isn't looking for, and will miss dps if you don't veer off course a little bit.

nightcrowler · 02/18/09, 1:16 PM

if spell == "Rake" then
		 rake = 9
	elseif spell == "Mangle - Cat" then
		 mangle = 18
	end
	
	if FaceMaulerdb.NCalg == true then
		if tf < GCD and energy < 40 and berserk < 165 then
			--print "TF"
			return "Tiger's Fury"
		end
		
		if berserk < GCD and energy > 70 and sr > 0 then
			--print "berserk"
			return "Berserk"
		end
		
		if sr < 0.2 then
			if cp >= 1 then
				return "Savage Roar"
			end
		end
		
		
		if rip < 0.2 then
			if cp == 5 then
				--print "RIP"
				return "Rip"
			end
		end
		
		if mangle < 0.2 and trauma <= 0 and cp<5 then
			--print "Mangle"
			return "Mangle - Cat"
		end


		if ooc > 0 then
			if mangle < GCD and trauma <= 0 then
				return "Mangle - Cat"
			else
				return "Shred"
			end
		end
		
		if rake < 0.2  and cp<5 then
			--print "Rake"
			return "Rake"
		end

		if energy >= 67 and cp < 5 and (mangle>=GCD or trauma>=GCD) and rake>=GCD then
			--print "Shred"
			return "Shred"
		end

		if energy >= 33 and cp < 5 and berserk >= 165 then
		--print "Shred"
			return "Shred"
		end
		
		
if tf < 2 and energy > 30 and berserk < 165 and cp<5 and (mangle>=GCD or trauma>=GCD) and rake>=GCD then
		return "Shred"
	end

	if tf < 2 and energy > 30 and berserk < 165 and cp<5 and (mangle<=GCD and trauma<=GCD) then
		return "mangle"
	end
	
	
	if (energy <= 55 or (berserk >= 165 and energy <= 27) ) and sr >= 5 and rip >= 6 and cp == 5 then
		return "Ferocious Bite"
	end

	if (energy > 55 or (berserk > 165 and energy > 27) ) and sr >= 6 and rip >= 7 and cp == 5 and mangle<GCD and trauma<=0 then
	    return "Mangle - Cat"
	end

	if (energy > 55 or (berserk > 165 and energy > 27) ) and sr >= 6 and rip >= 7 and cp == 5 and rake<GCD then
	    return "Rake"
	end

	if (energy >= 65 or (berserk >= 165 and energy >= 32) ) and sr >= 6 and rip >= 7 and cp == 5 then
		return "Shred"
	end

	if (energy >=55 or (berserk >= 165 and energy <= 32) ) and sr >= 5 and rip >= 6 and cp == 5 then
	if mangle < GCD and trauma <= 0 then
		--print "Mangle"
	    return "Mangle - Cat"
	end
	
		return "Ferocious Bite"
	end

		if sr<5 and rip>=(7-(energy/10)) and cp == 5 then
		return "Savage Roar"
	end

	if energy>=80 and cp == 5 and sr<10 then
		return "Savage Roar"
	end

	if energy>=80 and cp == 5 and rip<6 then
		return "Rip"
	end

	if energy>=80 and cp< 5 and berserk >=165 then
		return "Shred"
	end
	
	if energy >= 60 and rip <=2 and cp < 5 and (mangle>=GCD or trauma>=GCD) and rake>=GCD then
		return "Shred"
	end

	if energy >= 50 and rip <=2 and cp < 5 and (mangle<=GCD and trauma<=GCD)  then
		return "Mangle - Cat"
	end


		
		--print "FFF"
	--if fff < GCD+6 then
	--	return "Faerie Fire"
	--end
		
		return ""

For face mauler creator. I've worked on the alternative algoritm and that's the result, I've made some adjustment to avoid two frequent change, basically if mangle or rake are going to expire the program wait instead of putting an ability on the screen. I've also increased the algoritm "inteligence" refining energy management.

As for base vs. alternative algortim, the alternative ones is based on raid buffed status (50%+ crit, 9k+ AP, hit capped, expertise capped) if you have lower than that the base algoritm should win on a theorycraft base.

I've removed fff from the algoritm i find easyier to manage it on my own.

ramenchef · 02/18/09, 1:46 PM

Where in the LUA file do I add the updated alternative algorithm? Can't quite figure out where the code breaks between default and alternative algorithms.

Allev · 02/18/09, 5:58 PM

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

As I said that's why Rawr numbers can't be reached. If you only use RIP in your rotation you will have tons of waiting time. So you need to use FB to avoid waiting time but FB is less DPE than RIP.

Actually, Rawr's numbers can be reached, precisely because of FB. Rawr's numbers are simply the maximum average value of a cycle which uses 5-point SRs and 5-point Rips as the only finishers. While there's a good excuse to not use Rip in the first 5-10 seconds of the fight (you need SR up and combo points first), the remaining fight duration is key.

Essentially, Rawr throws away some portion of CPs that would otherwise go to waste during "waiting time", and pours extra energy into shreds. In the meantime, most of the community tends to agree that finding opportunities to FB results in more overall damage-- ideally that FB is taking more energy away from extra shreds than extra Rip ticks (when properly planned).

In other words, you can out-damage Rawr because FB is more DPE than shred. If we couldn't do more damage than Rawr, we would use Rawr's cycle.

Centarion · 02/18/09, 6:11 PM

Originally Posted by Blazefire

Thats some really nice work on Facemauler, however it kinda makes me sad that tools like this take the thought process out of playing the game. This would be very similar to the powershifting macros that came out in TBC. It took the skill of powershifting as a DPS boost and turned it into a 1 button spam that any old monkey could do. Now, similar with this mod, you are now just playing simon says, pushing the buttons the mod tells you to instead of making the determination for yourself.

What ever happened to actually playing the games instead of having a mod play for you?

It doesn't really work that way. I gave that addon a try, and after finding myself doing less dps with it than without at Patch, I switched it off.
What this addon does is, that it gives you a really nice view into how cat-cycles work - but it's not perfect (heck, it would be terrible if it is perfect).

Though I have to admit, that the way it works may be too good, considering you can put out serious dps with just playing simon says, as you tell it.

Stejo · 02/18/09, 6:32 PM

I used v0.9f in some fights in Naxx25 tonight (or actually Naxx20 but that's irrelevant) and followed the suggested rotation exactly so I could record the data for later evaluation. Other than opening with ff instead of the suggested mangle I didn't temper with the recommendations at all even when I thought they were wrong so the data would be as accurate as possible.

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

The report includes only the bosses were I enabled the addon and followed it's rotation (That's Maexxna, Patchwerk, Loatheb, Sapphiron and KT, rest of the links are disabled). I used the old alternative algorithm on all five. Just linking the report for now for anyone interested to check output and uptimes. I'll update the post later when I've studied the report myself with observations.