I don't have any of the armor penetration trinkets mentioned above, so would stacking armor penetration gems still help me or is there a good combination of gems to spec for maximum dps potential?
Agility gems would do more for you than strength, assuming you make good use of the extra combo points you generate. Without an armor pen trinket, you're probably better off sticking to agi instead of arpen until you're heavily T9 geared. There's an element of style here, though -- agi makes for easier rotations, but arpen is a lot more consistent fight after fight, better in 5-mans, and better on AoE. If any of these are major factors for you, you might consider switching gemming style at a lower overall level of gear. In your position I'd keep running Naxx & Uld till you get a trinket, then gem according to theorycrafting.
I was reading back a few pages and I noticed in one post it was said "If SR, rip, rake are up and you need to burn energy, mangle>shred"
Could someone please elaborate for me, I don't think I ever saw the explanation for this
Another thing I was wondering, I keep hearing about ferals hard-stacking ArP, I did some tests on Vezax HM the other night, one with my full ArP set(900 static) and one soft-capped+mjolnirs, and the dps gain was marginal with the full armor pen set, but I feel like there's a lot more stress on the rotation because of the lost crit. If it wasn't a stand still fight I'm not sure I'd have seen a dps increase using full ArP set.
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Another thing I was wondering, I keep hearing about ferals hard-stacking ArP, I did some tests on Vezax HM the other night, one with my full ArP set(900 static) and one soft-capped+mjolnirs, and the dps gain was marginal with the full armor pen set, but I feel like there's a lot more stress on the rotation because of the lost crit. If it wasn't a stand still fight I'm not sure I'd have seen a dps increase using full ArP set.
It's my understanding that the hard-capped ArP is only recommended when using this latest tier of gear, as it is pretty ArP heavy and much higher ilevel. I'd imagine you'd probably be sacrificing too much budget compared to simply soft-capping with Runestone.
I've never used Mangle to burn energy over Shred, not sure of the reasoning behind that concept.
Last edited by Windchilla : 08/27/09 at 8:20 PM.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
I was thinking about this after I optomized my gear the other night, if you're only aiming to maintain the soft-cap on ArP, once you get there ArP becomes the same value as the other stats when you're looking at new gear, as long as you maintain that soft-cap.
I'm sure this is nothing new to anyone, but it helps so much when looking at new gear(t9, etc) and it's something that should be remembered ^_^
Does anyone have tips for Heroic Twins? After a night of attempts, my guild is having great difficulty breaking a "bad" shield. I'm pooling to 5 CPs and 100 energy prior to the ability, saving TF, and popping SR (even at the expense of losing a lot of DPS if its not Twin's Pact) before the abilities happen, and then going to town on the shield. It works fine if we get a decent Pact, but if its an off-color one, we haven't broken it once. Is it worth it to pop Berserk and lose 1-2 seconds of DPS for the shield, or is pooling+TF enough to get it down? Also, I'm Shredding until 0 energy and then just FBing once the timer almost runs down.
Does anyone have tips for Heroic Twins? After a night of attempts, my guild is having great difficulty breaking a "bad" shield. I'm pooling to 5 CPs and 100 energy prior to the ability, saving TF, and popping SR (even at the expense of losing a lot of DPS if its not Twin's Pact) before the abilities happen, and then going to town on the shield. It works fine if we get a decent Pact, but if its an off-color one, we haven't broken it once. Is it worth it to pop Berserk and lose 1-2 seconds of DPS for the shield, or is pooling+TF enough to get it down? Also, I'm Shredding until 0 energy and then just FBing once the timer almost runs down.
Are you switching colors? DPSing the Black one with Black aura or vice versa doesn't get you anywhere.
If you are, is everyone else?
What I usually do is at about 10 seconds prior to a special ability, I make sure all debuffs/buffs are refreshed and then wait for either the Pact or Vortex. If its Twins Pact I switch auras if neccessary and then go all out of the target, we usually are able to get the shield down ~5 seconds before it goes off. If Vortex, just continue DPSing your target.
Does anyone have tips for Heroic Twins? After a night of attempts, my guild is having great difficulty breaking a "bad" shield. I'm pooling to 5 CPs and 100 energy prior to the ability, saving TF, and popping SR (even at the expense of losing a lot of DPS if its not Twin's Pact) before the abilities happen, and then going to town on the shield. It works fine if we get a decent Pact, but if its an off-color one, we haven't broken it once. Is it worth it to pop Berserk and lose 1-2 seconds of DPS for the shield, or is pooling+TF enough to get it down? Also, I'm Shredding until 0 energy and then just FBing once the timer almost runs down.
I don't even understand what you mean by "bad shield" or "off-color shield", there should be no such thing so right away I can tell you that your strat is flawed. That being said as a raid you should organize something for shields such as Heal 1: Cooldowns Heal 2: Bloodlust Heal 3: Haste Pot. You should always/only be using berserk on a shield. You should never switch colors before switching to another shield, just switch. This is not a dps fight, it is a endurance fight, break shields and survive and you win.
Sorry, should have clarified. My guild is following the strat as per Strategy Coliseum Twin Valkyrs (Hard Mode) - TankSpot so there will be times when the majority of the DPS do not match the shield in question. Thus a bad shield would be Dark (if the melee were Light) or it could be Light (if the melee were Dark).
I'm just wondering if what I am doing is the actual maximization of my DPS towards breaking the shields, and if any of you other ferals find doing something else easier/more effective.
I don't even understand what you mean by "bad shield" or "off-color shield", there should be no such thing so right away I can tell you that your strat is flawed. That being said as a raid you should organize something for shields such as Heal 1: Cooldowns Heal 2: Bloodlust Heal 3: Haste Pot. You should always/only be using berserk on a shield. You should never switch colors before switching to another shield, just switch. This is not a dps fight, it is a endurance fight, break shields and survive and you win.
What he meant by off-color shield was when the twin that he wasn't focusing casted a shield, which I assume all the other melee are on as well. When we had an off-color shield we used cooldowns on the first one, lusted on the second one, and rarely on our attempts were we as unlucky as to have a third one, but if so we had haste potions on hand. On about 4/5ths of attempts I was able to berserk on the first off-color shield and then it would be back up for when I got the 100% damage buff.
I honestly don't recommend not switching colors before switching to the other color shield. The damage you do to targets of your own color is terrible and may not be enough to get the shield down. It isn't hard to click the portal to switch colors and then switch targets.
From tank spot: we have 10 dps atunted to dark but only 6 atuened light.
Uneven dps just doesn't make sense to me whatsoever, and depending on how you are positioning twins switching colors wastes so much time that it is not worth it whatsoever especially when you consider possibly having to wait for orbs to pass or the possibility of eating orbs and killing yourself (unlikely due to the overpoweredness of cat) or killing someone else around you.
This is not a question of what you could be doing to break shields more effectively, its a question of what your raid can do (spliting melee).
Sorry, should have clarified. My guild is following the strat as per Strategy Coliseum Twin Valkyrs (Hard Mode) - TankSpot so there will be times when the majority of the DPS do not match the shield in question. Thus a bad shield would be Dark (if the melee were Light) or it could be Light (if the melee were Dark).
I'm just wondering if what I am doing is the actual maximization of my DPS towards breaking the shields, and if any of you other ferals find doing something else easier/more effective.
The tankspot strat doesnt work for everyone. It does work though.
That being said, how you blow your cd's depends on what strat you're using. If you guys are still adamant on trying that strat, then save cd's for shield.
Simple answer: Whichever you get and enchant first. With your hunters and other druids trying to nab these as well, it's pointless to bother comparing.
Non-simple answer: use Rawr.
Ignorance can be solved with a book. Stupidity requires a shotgun and a shovel.
Does anyone else other than Astrylian use the EventHorizon addon to keep track of our short-time buffs/debuffs, and if so, how have you configured it?
Considering featuring this addon alongside such greats as FbN and BadKitty in my upcoming Guide: How To Feral DPS video. Please PM me if you'd like an advance copy of the script for peer review.
Does anyone else other than Astrylian use the EventHorizon addon to keep track of our short-time buffs/debuffs, and if so, how have you configured it?
Considering featuring this addon alongside such greats as FbN and BadKitty in my upcoming Guide: How To Feral DPS video. Please PM me if you'd like an advance copy of the script for peer review.
I use EventHorizon on my druid and rogue and it works straight out of the box. I just moved it over next to my target frame.
I have changed the order to make clearcasts more obvious, and on my rogue I have included sunder and expose armor tracking.
Basically I am using it as a simplified dot/cooldown timer that only shows the ones relevant to my current form.
Does anyone else other than Astrylian use the EventHorizon addon to keep track of our short-time buffs/debuffs, and if so, how have you configured it?
Considering featuring this addon alongside such greats as FbN and BadKitty in my upcoming Guide: How To Feral DPS video. Please PM me if you'd like an advance copy of the script for peer review.
EventHorizon is pretty decent out of the box, but the default 'future view' of 12s is rather short given the duration of Glyphed Rips and Savage Roar. Edit the WoWInstall/Interface/Addons/EventHorizon/config.lua and modify:
-- Past and future determine the number of seconds displayed before and after the current time.
config.past = -3
-- default: config.future = 12
config.future = 17
--
-- Purely Cosmetic Alterations: I prefer no outline, thinner bars, no background, no icon edges
--
-- Width and height of a single bar.
config.width = 170
config.height = 12
-- Create the backdrop frame and border.
--config.backdrop = true
-- Set it to nil to remove it, like so:
config.backdrop = nil
-- Use the default Blizzard icon border.
config.iconborder = nil
-- Set the color of the GCD indicator.
config.gcdColor = {0.4,0.4,0.4,0.3}
-- Individual bar background color.
config.barbgcolor = {0.3,0.3,0.3,0.5}
-- Frame background color.
config.bgcolor = {0.3,0.3,0.3,0.5}
-- Border color.
config.bordercolor = {0,0,0,0.3}
Having used a wide variety of timer mods over the years, I find EH to be the best at helping me visualize 'dangerous' overlaps of expiries, and makes energy management in high-movement and target swapping fights easier.
I should add that I use this along with Ellipsis for the logarithmic Cooldown bar (trinkets/pots/druid non-dps abilities (innervate/barkskin etc), and for the multi-target debuff tracking ability. Only slightly useful for dps, but quite nice for monitoring lacerates/mangles/demo etc on several targets while tanking.
got a question about rotation:
if i have everything up including sufficient time on rip and savage roar, say my energy is at 70 and i also have 4-5 cp's, which of the 2 scenarios should you take
1. shred to burn energy as not to waste extra energy when you FB
2. FB at that 70 energy and have 30 extra energy consumed
got a question about rotation:
if i have everything up including sufficient time on rip and savage roar, say my energy is at 70 and i also have 4-5 cp's, which of the 2 scenarios should you take
1. shred to burn energy as not to waste extra energy when you FB
2. FB at that 70 energy and have 30 extra energy consumed
You say 4-5, but for me, the answer is different between 4 and 5. At 4, I'd Shred. At 5, I'd FB.
alright so i think that basicly answer's my underlying question which is it's more efficient to fb with extra energy than to use that on a shred and waste a cp
got a question about rotation:
if i have everything up including sufficient time on rip and savage roar, say my energy is at 70 and i also have 4-5 cp's, which of the 2 scenarios should you take
1. shred to burn energy as not to waste extra energy when you FB
2. FB at that 70 energy and have 30 extra energy consumed
i guess it depends on what "sufficient time on rip and SR" adds up to.
Generally, to avoid starving myself of rip uptime I would only shred in your described situation. If by some miracle I had a TON of extra rip and SR time, it probably would be more dps to FB even at extra energy. But where that cutoff is I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to judge in the heat of battle.
I sort of have that feel for how much extra rip/SR time I need to FB and still build up CP fast enoug. But even then it's almost always because TF will be up by the time I need to build the next set. Losing nearly an entire bar of energy AND using up all combo points is a pretty hard situation to come out of and still keep the rotation going smoothly. I would argue that the chance of getting that right more often than not is pretty slim.
I'd say if you're at 70 energy, do a shred + FB combination if you really want to dump CP. Losing one CP isn't a big deal. If you're at all concerned about maintaining your timers, just shred off extra energy to stay below about 85. That's room enough to notice a clearcast and shred it off before losing energy to being capped.
alright so i think that basicly answer's my underlying question which is it's more efficient to fb with extra energy than to use that on a shred and waste a cp
Be careful with your words here. That energy in itself is actually less efficient, which is why it's initially confusing as to why you'd get an advantage by FBing early. The entire 65-energy FB is more DPE-efficient than giving that energy only to shred.
The original simulator testing through FbN showed that you gained an advantage FBing instead of shred->FB not because it was more energy efficient, but because you got to "clear" your CP and start accumulating CP for your next finisher. This was pretty evident at that gear level, but it hasn't been established as absolutely true now.
Either way, the difference is small enough that what you ultimately choose to do won't detectably improve or degrade your DPS.
EventHorizon is pretty decent out of the box, but the default 'future view' of 12s is rather short given the duration of Glyphed Rips and Savage Roar. Edit the WoWInstall/Interface/Addons/EventHorizon/config.lua and modify:
Having used a wide variety of timer mods over the years, I find EH to be the best at helping me visualize 'dangerous' overlaps of expiries, and makes energy management in high-movement and target swapping fights easier.
I should add that I use this along with Ellipsis for the logarithmic Cooldown bar (trinkets/pots/druid non-dps abilities (innervate/barkskin etc), and for the multi-target debuff tracking ability. Only slightly useful for dps, but quite nice for monitoring lacerates/mangles/demo etc on several targets while tanking.
I am trying to edit the config.lua file to show my buffs (savage roar, TF) as yellow and target debuffs (mangle, rip, rake) as red, but I can't seem to get it to work. Anyone with better knowledge on how to set this up would be greatly appreciated. Color coding buffs and debuffs would help make this good addon even better.
Having asked in the simple questions thread about the proc rate of OoC on healing touch and got an estimated answer of about 6% based on other Moonkin spells I decided to do a little testing of Predator's Swiftness casts as opposed to normal ones. Testing was done by spamming mangle to 5 points on a level 80 training dummy, running away, using savage roar then casting the spell either on the dummy or on myself.
Healing touch: 10 out of 20 casts provided clearcasting, 50%
Wrath: 62 out of 100 casts provided clearcasting (at spell hit), 62%
Given the really small sample size the percentages are still really vague and liable to be inaccurate however it seems very unlikely (and I would work out exactly how unlikely if I could remember how to off hand) that spells cast with Predator's Swiftness obey the normal proc rates for OoC.
Looking at the numbers for my own damage in Toskks calculator my Shreds are 4.8x more damaging than my white attacks on average. Presuming I lose two white attacks for resetting the swing timer and shifting out a 50% proc rate from healing touch appears to give a small increase in actual damage done.
Just putting this out there in case someone else is willing to help with testing of proc rates or can think of some reason why what I'm suggesting is fundamentally stupid.
*edit* Using the 62% proc chance from wrath that I seem to be getting in my current gear it looks to be a gain of on average 2134 damage per correct execution (though I'm sure there are a couple of factors I've missed)
8688(average shred)* (0.62(estimated proc rate) - 0.033(chance omen would have procced from the two white swings)) - 1805 * 2 (two average white attacks) + 645 (average wrath (taken from Dr. Damage)) = 2134
Omen of Clarity
Each of the Druid's damage, healing spells and auto attacks has a chance of causing the caster to enter a Clearcasting state. The Clearcasting state reduces the Mana, Rage or Energy cost of your next damage, healing spell or offensive ability by 100%.
As far as I'm aware, OOC has an equal, flat proc chance from any of the above actions. I'm sorry if I'm missing something important, but I surely trading 2 auto attacks (thus 2 chances to proc OOC) plus two GCDs for one chance to proc OOC is going to end up negatively impacting DPS?
08/25/09, 3:51 AM
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