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02/02/09, 12:05 PM
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#136
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Soda Popinski
Tauren Druid
Twisting Nether (EU)
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Originally Posted by MesmericDruid
Just got Je'Tze's Bell, cant bring myself to equip it yet despite pouring over forum posts getting the math down. After reading here and on other WoW loot sites, I think it would be safe to say the bell is the best trinket you can get as a resto druid. It is hard to beat approx. 30 mp5 and 106 SP (thanks Devine for that math) on a single trinket.
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No, Illusion of the Dragonsoul is the best trinket but generally it remains unattainable. Bell is a very nice trinket if you cannot get IDS or if you do not wish to use MDF/Greatness in your second slot.
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02/04/09, 1:31 PM
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#137
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Glass Joe
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This is a bit of a rehash of the first post (trinket listing) but I think it's worth a brief review on how best to think about trinket selection.
Trinkets are great because they are the single easiest way to dramatically change your gear depending on the needs of the fight. By swapping just two pieces of gear a player can easily trade 200 spellpower for 80 mp5 depending on their needs. So I measure trinkets on the four dimensions of healing; throughput, longevity, survival and tricks. A given trinket generally falls into one or two of these categories. This would be much cooler as a four-way Venn diagram, but I'll try to fake it in a list.
Throughput/Survival
[Battlemaster's Bravery]
Throughput
[Illustration of the Dragon Soul]
[Forethought Talisman]
[The Egg of Mortal Essence]
[Embrace of the Spider]
Throughput/Longevity
[Je'Tze's Bell]
[Darkmoon Card: Illusion]
[Mercurial Alchemist Stone]
Longevity
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Majestic Dragon Figurine]
[Spirit-World Glass]
[Figurine - Sapphire Owl]
Longevity/Tricks
[Living Ice Crystals]
This shows why Je'tze's Bell is so awesome, it is at the top of the two most important categories. It's why I think DC: Illusion is underrated, it's like the JV version of the Bell covering two roles at once. EJ posters have explained endlessly that comparing the IDS and MDF is nonsensical because of the two different categories. And so forth.
I recommend having a trinket setup where you can switch between two longevity trinkets and two throughput trinkets equipped for maximum flexibility. It's up to you (and your DKP, luck, patience and cash) to decide if you want to do that with two, three or four items.
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02/04/09, 5:52 PM
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#138
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Gnomeregan
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Originally Posted by Bigtoy
By swapping just two pieces of gear a player can easily trade 200 spellpower for 80 mp5 depending on their needs. So I measure trinkets on the four dimensions of healing; throughput, longevity, survival and tricks.
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Thanks. The categories are a nice way to think about trinket itemization.
No need to overly complicate matters, but just food for thought: Haste and crit trinkets could stand as their own categories. There are a few trinkets not on your list, especially from the heroics, that emphasize those two stats. (I'm thinking about Spark of Life and Forge Ember from heroic Halls of Stone; Meteorite Whetstone from heroic Utgarde Pinnacle; Tome of Arcane Phenomena from normal Oculus). Again, further subdivision is probably unnecessary since both haste and crit fall within the notion of throughput, but I tend to break out those stats when I think about itemization.
And one more thing: There are some decent stamina and damage absorption trinkets available in the heroics that would fit nicely within your survival category. (For example, Essence of Gossamer from heroic Azjol-Nerub; Offering of Sacrifice from heroic Gundrak). Not so much in WotLK (yet), but BC had some raid fights where it was helpful to buff health or absorb damage. That said, shame on the healer who rolls against a tank for those items.
[Edited to add references to specific trinkets]
Last edited by Candlelight : 02/04/09 at 8:03 PM.
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02/05/09, 11:37 AM
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#140
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Gnomeregan
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Originally Posted by trismegistus
Should not be used:
[Living Ice Crystals]
If you feel like you have so much mana trouble that you need S-WG or LIC, I can almost guarantee the problem is not your gear, but your play style, group comp or target's gear. Overcompensating for other's weaknesses seems beyond the scope of this conversation specifically and this forum in general.
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This is admittedly a short-term view, but I really like Living Ice Crystals for one primary reason: The instant +2710 healing. I've bound the use effect on the trinket to Swiftmend to get a bit more punch from Swiftmend in an emergency.
Even though many of us are farming to maximize spell power and other stats for future content patches, the reality is that we do not need more spell power or mana regen right now. What does help right now, however, is extra "flash" healing in an emergency situation when someone accidentally pulls aggro, gets back-to-back arcane hits in Phase 2 of Malygos, etc. The extra +2710 from the trinket isn't overwhelming, of course, but it helps.
Another way of saying the same thing: I like Living Ice Crystals for the situational use. It may not happen often, and may not account for a large portion of my healing. But when I pop the trinket, the benefit is very helpful. Looking at last night's WWS from Naxx, I used Swiftmend and Living Ice Crystals a whopping total of 7 times. Overhealing from the trinket was minor, suggesting that the extra healing typically helped when it was needed.
Resto druids have other tools, of course, such as Nourish and Nature's Swiftness+Healing Touch. That said, I often find myself using Swiftmend with Living Ice Crystals if a HoT is already planted on the target.
Longer term, I agree with you. Unless we hit a fight requiring massive mana regen, Living Ice Crystals is not necessarily a trinket for every fight. But right now, it works pretty well in a pinch.
Last edited by Candlelight : 02/05/09 at 11:45 AM.
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02/06/09, 2:53 AM
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#141
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Shadowmoon
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MMO-Champion - World of Warcraft Guides and Raid Strategies
Apparently there will be a significant nerf to regen in the upcoming patch. Bliz will be reducing the amount regenerated while non-casting, however while casting it should be the same. This change will probably affect us the least; I don't know about you but I am almost constantly casting. I just managed to get my hands on a Dragon Figurine (a pally took the Dragon Soul... go figure) and despite my initial dislike for the trinket, I think with the proposed buff to Intensity any regen trinkets are going to become much more powerful.
My point: If after reading this thread you have become inclined to discard your regeneration trinkets, you may want to think twice, because mana shortages are about to become an actual issue.
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02/16/09, 7:18 PM
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#142
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Von Kaiser
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I've been using 4 trinkets depending on the situation:
[Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon]
[Darkmoon Card: Illusion]
[Majestic Dragon Figurine]
[Je'Tze's Bell]
The mana return on DC:BD is absolutely ridiculous. It procs on average once a minute and raid buffed that means for me~180mp5 sustained...
So for "never run out of mana" set I use DC:BD and MDF.
IDS is pretty much unattainable and honestly I wouldn't even bother rolling on it since I think a caster DPS would benefit way more from the extra spell power than a tree - for me that's say extra 50 health on top of the 8K I'm already dumping on someone in a regrowth cast, while for a DPS that can be a measurable difference.
The bell and DC:I have very, very similar stats, so for static 200+ spell power and some 50-60mp5, those are very nice trinkets. DC:I can be easily managed into almost 50mp5 on any fight that lasts ~6 min (since you can use it twice in that case). The DC:G is expensive and nowhere near as much of a spell power boost as any of the other two, and roughly the same mp5 as MDF. MDF is a nice option to keep around and easy to get as the competition in a 10-man is not that big.
I used to use [Spirit-World Glass] but frankly that's way of an overkill when I'm sitting at 1k+ spirit raidbuffed and usually can afford casting and come out full after Innervate anyway.
Keeping patch 3.1 in mind, from current trinkets SWG will probably completely fall out, as the raw stats on the gear will go up, DC:BD will take 50% hit since the OOC regen will get nerfed, but so will the ultra-expensive DC:G (by roughly the same amount, putting it on par in mana regen department with DC:I - except DC:I also comes with 100 spell power). So ultimately, I'm pretty sure that coming next patch I'll forget about MDF (that being worth around 40 mp5 at that point), and I'll use either DC:I and the bell normally, or the bell and DC:BD if I'm desperate for mana, until I'll come across something significantly better.
I used to use the egg, but honestly in my opinion haste proc is the worst type of trinket proc for a tree - we benefit a lot from a static haste (which makes trinket like [Spark of Life] really decent with some gear) but not a whole lot from a proc haste (since you want your GCD at 1sec always, not whenever your trinket procs).
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02/16/09, 8:04 PM
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#143
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Soda Popinski
Tauren Druid
Twisting Nether (EU)
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The thing with IDS is that there is a fair chance that Ulduar will drop better trinkets for DPS classes* as they have more options of stats which could be useful to have. Unless there is a fairly core change to our mechanics or some exceptional talent changes in 3.1 we will be limited by the fact no throughput stat really scales in a meaningful way compared to plain SP and the only way to really top IDS will be with IDS.v2 or a trinket with 175~ SP and an amazing secondary effect (an unlikely chance).
*Obviously this is just an assumption because no one knows what to expect in 3.1 regarding these things.
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02/17/09, 6:42 AM
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#144
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Don Flamenco
Tauren Druid
Chromaggus (EU)
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Just to strengthen - IDS is the best resto trinket by far. The 2nd best is half as good - and that says it all, really. DPS casters have a wide variety of trinkets they can utilize - curse, embarce, sundial.
Healing trinkets are very limited because healers like constant stats, not procs or clickies. Resto druids have the additional problem of not scaling with any other stat in a meaningful way, as stated above. As such I expect IDS to stay useable by healers long after DPS casters have abandonded it.
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03/01/09, 3:27 PM
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#145
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Silvermoon
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Anyone know how much mp5 while not casting is being nerfed? I have my Darkmoon Card:Blue Dragon (which I posted before gives me about 180mp5 bonus. Definitely OP). I think I'm going to invest in Jezze's Bell though.
Please give me specifics like I have 900/300 (out/in) mp5 and on the PTR I now have 600/300.
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03/02/09, 11:11 AM
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#147
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Dark Iron
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Originally Posted by turlockmike
Please give me specifics like I have 900/300 (out/in) mp5 and on the PTR I now have 600/300.
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DMC: Blue Dragon's regen has been nerfed by approximately half.
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03/02/09, 12:39 PM
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#148
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
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Originally Posted by turlockmike
Anyone know how much mp5 while not casting is being nerfed? I have my Darkmoon Card:Blue Dragon (which I posted before gives me about 180mp5 bonus. Definitely OP). I think I'm going to invest in Jezze's Bell though.
Please give me specifics like I have 900/300 (out/in) mp5 and on the PTR I now have 600/300.
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selfbuffed
Live: 1008 oo5sr / 402 while casting
Trinkets:
Majestic Dragon Figurine
Living Ice Crystal
PTR: 684 oo5scr / 397 while casting
Majestic Dragon Figurine
Living Ice Crystal
During a 3d Satharion Fight I use DMC Blue Dragon (instead of Living Ice Crystal), wich proccs about by 7 times.
All in All, i've got full buffed (live) about ~36k / (PTR) ~14k Mana back.
I think DMC Blue Dragon is in a long term fight still a good alternative.
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03/03/09, 3:33 AM
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#149
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Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
Boulderfist (EU)
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Darkmoon card Blue dragon napkin math:
From browsing my WWS logs, I see that roughly the DCBD procs once a minute:
Using 600 mp5 O5SR gives (600*3 ticks*1 ppm)/12= 150 mp5_raw
However, since they have buffed intensity to 50%, the effective mp5= 150*0,5= 75 mp5
So as you see, they double nerfed the darkmoon card, by reducing O5SR mana regen and buffing intensity.
(Given you have 900 mp5 O5SR on live, the DCBD is equal to 0,7*(900*3 ticks*1 ppm)/12= 157,5 mp5 on live)
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03/03/09, 3:57 AM
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#150
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Silvermoon
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Originally Posted by Kahcheeta
Darkmoon card Blue dragon napkin math:
From browsing my WWS logs, I see that roughly the DCBD procs once a minute:
Using 600 mp5 O5SR gives (600*3 ticks*1 ppm)/12= 150 mp5_raw
However, since they have buffed intensity to 50%, the effective mp5= 150*0,5= 75 mp5
So as you see, they double nerfed the darkmoon card, by reducing O5SR mana regen and buffing intensity.
(Given you have 900 mp5 O5SR on live, the DCBD is equal to 0,7*(900*3 ticks*1 ppm)/12= 157,5 mp5 on live)
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Ok so roughly 75 mp5. If mp5 is worth 2.5 item level points, then the trinket is now worth 187.5 down from 375. Where as Je'ztes Bell is worth 100 +sp (1point each) and 25 mp5 (worth 2.5 p) for a total of 162.5. So The blue dragon still wins.
Please tell me if I have my item stats wrong and if so where you get your numbers from.
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