• Playered

Raid encounters are "balanced" around having certain buffs and debuffs in your raid - Replenishment being one of these (1 provider in 10 man, 2 in 25 man) buffs you are expected to have. Having a 25 man with no Priest or Hunter at all ontop of no Replenishment provider is a raid that is doing things wrong, "bring the player not the class" was not ment to be taken without a good dose of common sense.

Indirectly you do somewhat raise a valid point though - most calculations will assume a 100% fight uptime on Replenishment which is generally going to be false due to the starting window, latter end of Innervate where you sit at 100%, fight mechanics and such. Some time spent on browsing through WWS and Stasis parses should be able to give off a better range of uptime that we can assume for this buff in order to get a more real value of it but they would certainly not be 'random' or '100% misleading' figures.

 

Zipporah

Anyone who knows the answer to this? Since I'm really itchy to spec to 18/0/53 but I have no idea how the 3% of celestial focus would be treated so I'm not sure how many points of GotEM I could free up. I got 585 haste in my resto gear so I'm sure I could free up some points there. And after playing with a spreadsheet for about an hour I only came to realise I fail at all the haste math.

If anyone would be so kind to post the entire formula to calculate the required haste rating that would be great. Some variables that need to be in the formula :

MR (moonkin or ret aura) can be 1 or 1,03 (to indicate whether you have it or not)
WA (wrath of air totem) can be 1 or 1,05 (to indicate whether you have it or not)
CF (celestial focus) can be 0, 1, 2 or 3 points spent in that talent
GE (gift of the earth mother) can be 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 points spent in that talent

HR (haste rating required)

I already found the formula on Resto4Life to calculate HR in function of GE but I have no idea where I need to put in MR, WA or CF into the formula.

What I got so far is :

HR = (1,5 /(1,3-(5-GE)*0,06)-1)*32,79*100

And when you put that formula into a spreadsheet and change GE from 0 to 5 then you end up with the well known 505 haste rating for 5/5 GotEM. But I really would like to see MR, WA and CF into that formula as well.

 

• uliko

You could, you know, log in game and check your cast time on whatever spell and see if it's multiplicative or additive. With your stats if the casting time on SF is 2.13 then it's multiplicative or if it's 2.14 it's additive. Rounding errors not accounted for.




Where modN is all your haste modifiers: totem, ret, and possibly CF

Why hit food is bad
"You have to spend 10 seconds to apply it, you have to fish it and you cant use the feast."

 

Zipporah

Thanks. I took your advise and did some tests on the duration of tranquility since that is one of our longer spells so rounding errors are smaller. Right now I'm also temporary balance spec (with 3/3 CF).

* Normal Tranquility duration: Tranq tooltip lasts 8 seconds.
* 0 haste rating from gear and 3/3 CF : Tranq tooltip lasts 7.77 seconds. { 8 / 1.03 = 7.767 }
* 98 haste rating from gear and 3/3 CF : Tranq tooltip lasts 7.54 seconds. { 8 / (1.03*1.03) = 7.541 }

Then I grouped with a shaman :
* 0 haste rating from gear and 3/3 CF and Wrath of Air totem : Tranq tooltip lasts 7.40 seconds. { 8 / (1.03*1.05) = 7.397 }
* 98 haste rating from gear and 3/3 CF and Wrath of Air totem : Tranq tooltip lasts 7.18 seconds. { 8 / (1.03*1.03*1.05) = 7.182 }

EDIT - Back with resto spec now but went for 18/0/43.
* 595 haste rating (595/32,79=18.15%) from gear and 3/3 CF : Tranq tooltip lasts 6.57 seconds. { 8 / (1.1815*1.03) = 6.574 }

Seems to me CF is multiplicable as well.

 

Dendrek

My first post. Hi guys.

Thanks largely in part to Norfair's efforts in determining how talents and buffs stack, I've done quite a bit of number crunching to determine the "exact" effect Haste, Crit, and Spell Power have on the direct heal component of Regrowth. (The "important" information in this post can be found under "Impact of Stat Changes on HPS".) Here's what I got:


Some Base Values to work with:
• Bonus Healing (in ToL) = 2000 SP
• % Haste = 10%
• % Crit = 10%


Values for Healing and HPS:
The following are averages between the min and max values that can be expected. (To see the formulas used to derive these values, see “Equations and Definitions” below.)

No Nature's Grace or Living Seed

With Nature's Grace and Living Seed (**)

Notes:
(*) The "Average" is based on Regrowth critting 60% of the time (50% from Improved Regrowth and 10% from player crit rating).

(**) In the "With Nature's Grace and Living Seed" calculations, the numbers for Living Seed's "Healing Done" and "HPS" were added to the Healing Done and HPS of Regrowth's Crit values and also factored into Regrowth's "Average" values.


Impact of Stat Changes on HPS:
I developed formulas to determine the impact that increasing my total Bonus Healing, % Haste, or % Crit (from gear, talents, buffs, etc) would have on HPS of Regrowth’s direct heal. I come up with the equations at the bottom of this post (see “Impact on HPS formulas”). Here are the numbers I obtained:

Notes:
(*) “Increased HPS” indicates how much the Average HPS *should* change by increasing the corresponding stat.

(**)These numbers were obtained assuming there were no Nature's Grace or Living Seed Procs.
Not taking Living Seed or Nature’s Grace into account, this seems to show that Haste stacks better than Crit for Regrowth’s direct heal’s HPS.
From this, I was able to determine the following ratios, that for HPS: +10 SP = +6 HR = +15 CR.

(***) These numbers were obtained by *estimating* the impact Nature's Grace and Living Seed might have on HPS.
These numbers, if they are accurate (I've tested them repeatedly to confirm them, but they're based on somewhat sketchy assumptions), seem to indicate that 1% of Haste will have almost the EXACT SAME impact on Regrowth's HPS as 1% of Crit. This, of course, can be affected by many factors, including Nature's Grace and/or Living Seed falling off or not being used to their full potential.
The ratio I get for Regrowth’s HPS with Living Seed and Nature’s Grace is: +10 SP = +6.5 HR = +9 CR.


WARNING: If you don’t like MATH, don’t read on.


Equations and Definitions:
Healing Done = (“Healing Done” Buffs) * (Average(Min Base Healing, Max Base Healing) + (“Bonus Healing” Buffs) * (Spell Power)) = 1.455168 * (2387.5 + 0.648 * (Spell Power)) = 5360
• “Healing Done” Buffs = Master Shapeshifter (1.04) * Gift of Nature (1.10) * Glyph of Regrowth (1.20) = 1.455168
• “Bonus Healing” Buffs = Bonus SP Coefficient (0.54) * Empowered Rejuvenation (1.20) = 0.648
• Average(Min Base Healing, Max Base Healing) = (Min Base Healing of Regrowth (2257) + Max Base Healing of Regrowth (2518)) / 2 = 2387.5
HPS = (Healing Done) / (Cast Time) = (Healing Done) / 1.82 = 2948
• Cast Time = Normal Cast Time (2 secs) / (1 + (% Haste) / 100) = 1.82 secs
Healing Done with Crit = (Healing Done) * 1.5 = 8040
HPS with Crit = (HPS) * 1.5 = 4422
Average Healing Done = (Healing Done) * (1 – (Total Crit %) / 100) + (Healing Done with Crit) * ((Total Crit %) / 100) = (Substitute) = (Healing Done) * (Average Healing Coefficient) = (Healing Done) * 1.3 = 6968
• Total Crit % = Improved Regrowth % Crit (50%) + ('%' Crit)
• Average Healing Coefficient = (1 + 0.5 * (0.5 + ('%' Crit) / 100)) = 1.3
Average HPS = (Average Healing Done) / (Cast Time) = 3832


Impact on HPS formulas (No Living Seed or Nature’s Grace):
Here’s where the interesting math comes in. These numbers are based heavily on the Average HPS, which doesn’t take into account things like Nature’s Grace procs or Living Seed procs.
• Increased HPS (with +100 SP) = (“Healing Done” Buffs) * (“Bonus Healing” Buffs) * (+100 SP) * (Average Healing Coefficient) / (Cast Time) = 0.9429488 * 100 * 1.3 / 1.82 = +67 HPS
• Increased HPS (with + 1% Haste) = (Average Healing Done) / (2 / (1 + (% Haste) / 100 + (+1% Haste) / 100) – (Average HPS) = (Through a series of substitutions and simplifications) = (Average Healing Done) / (2 / (+1% Haste) / 100) = 6968 / (2 / 0.01) = +35 HPS
• Increased HPS (with +1% Crit) = (Healing Done) * ((Average Healing Coefficient) + 0.5 * (+1% Crit) / 100)) – (Average HPS) = (Through a series of substitutions and simplifications) = (HPS) * 0.5 * (+1% Crit) / 100 = +15 HPS


Impact on HPS formulas (with Living Seed and Nature’s Grace):
I made certain assumptions about how often Living Seed and Nature’s Grace would be up and used which I suspect would not hold true in a real playing environment. Specifically, I based these calculations on a belief that both would affect or proc from Regrowth a percent of the time equal to Regrowth’s effective Crit %, and that when active, each effect would be used to its fullest. This of course is not likely true, and so these numbers (the affect +1 Crit % has in particular) would not completely correspond to in-game tests. However, I believe the basis for my calculations and even the relative values they obtain will remain fairly accurate even if the buffs fall off or over healing occurs. (I’ll apologize in advance for not showing exactly how these formulas were derived. I’ve typed too much in this post already and it would take a lot to explain these equations.)
• Increased HPS (with +100 SP) = (“Healing Done” Buffs) * (“Bonus Healing” Buffs) * (+100 SP) * (1 + 0.95 * (0.5 + (% Crit) / 100)) * (1.5 + 0.5 * (Total Crit %) / 100) / ((Cast Time) * 1.5) = +98 HPS
• Increased HPS (with + 1% Haste) = (Healing Done) * (1 + 0.95 * (0.5 + (% Crit) / 100)) * (1.5 + 0.5 * (Total Crit %) / 100) / ((Cast Time) * 1.5) = +50 HPS
• Increased HPS (with +1% Crit) = (Healing Done) * (+1% Crit) * (1.925 + .95 * (1 + 0.95 * (0.5 + (% Crit) / 100)) + .475 * (+1% Crit)) / ((Cast Time) * 1.5) = (HPS) * 0.5 * (+1% Crit) / 100 = +49 HPS

------------------

I'm sure most people who see this will be critted by a wall of text, but if anyone wants me to further explain my calculations, I can. If you find an error in them, please let me know.

 

Zipporah

I've inserted the formula into a spreadsheet and added the effect of Celestial Focus as well. This is how your data would look like, asuming you have 3/3 Celestial Focus as well :


Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura (with 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~34.7% Haste = ~1137 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~27.0% Haste = ~887 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~20.2% Haste = ~664 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~14.1% Haste = ~463 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~8.6% Haste = ~282 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~3.6% Haste = ~118 Haste Rating

Wrath of Air only (with 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~38.7% Haste = ~1269 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~30.8% Haste = ~1012 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~23.8% Haste = ~782 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~17.5% Haste = ~576 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~11.9% Haste = ~389 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~6.7% Haste = ~220 Haste Rating

Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura only (with 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~41.4% Haste = ~1358 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~33.4% Haste = ~1095 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~26.2% Haste = ~861 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~19.8% Haste = ~650 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~14.0% Haste = ~460 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~8.8% Haste = ~288 Haste Rating

No outside buffs at all (only 3/3 Celestial Focus)
0/5 GotE = ~45.6% Haste = ~1497 Haste Rating
1/5 GotE = ~37.4% Haste = ~1226 Haste Rating
2/5 GotE = ~30.0% Haste = ~985 Haste Rating
3/5 GotE = ~23,4% Haste = ~768 Haste Rating
4/5 GotE = ~17.4% Haste = ~573 Haste Rating
5/5 GotE = ~12.0% Haste = ~395 Haste Rating


Now for a 18/0/53 spec (with 3/3 CF) and in 25 man raids (where I assume you have both Wrath of Air and Swift Ret / Imp Moonkin Aura) I personally find 3/5 GotEM the sweet spot. That means you need 463 haste from gear, which is quite easy to obtain after a couple weeks of raiding all available instances (I now have 595 haste from gear, albeit with a "taste for haste" :p).

If you do 10 man raids with the same 3/5 GotEM and assuming you have a shaman in the group but no swift ret / imp moonkin then you need 576 haste from gear to reach that 1s GCD cap. In my case still doable but without the alchemy trinket maybe a bit harder to achieve (I still have quite some gear improvements for haste though).

And for 5 man heroics with the same 3/5 GotEM I'll assume you have no outside buffs available so you would need 768 haste from gear to reach the cap. I assume that's close to impossible but then again, do you really need that 1s GCD cap for 5 man heroics? I think not.

Conclusion : With my latest respec I went for 4/5 GotEM since I hadn't seen any numbers yet with the effect of 3/3 CF and I wasn't sure how low I could go with my 595 haste gear. The next time I respec I'm going to drop to 3/5 GotEM since that seems to be the sweet spot with the current gear available. It also means for 25m raids I can drop to 463 haste again without sacrificing the 1s GCD cap (for some gear that has better other stats). And I just swap to my higher haste gear for 10m raids and still stay at the 1s GCD cap.

Also, as long as Replenish and Living Seed are such underwhelming talents and there is no big need to spend talent points there, I think the 18/0/53 build is better than any 14/0/57 build (assuming you focus on HoT talents while ignoring the HT/nourish talents). After all, GotEM only affects 3 spells while Celestial Focus affects every spell. The more you can shift from GotEM to CF, the better IMO.

If people are interested I can clean up my spreadsheet a bit and put it online, maybe also add the total effect on the casting time of spells like regrowth, healing touch and nourish to it. The speadsheet also allows you to see the required haste for different ranks of Celestial Focus but making that a variable in the above tables as well would just clutter up things too much. But it could be useful if for example you really want 3/3 Living Seed and want to see how your required gcd cap haste would look like with only 1 or 2 points in CF.

Thinking about my next respec, with 3/5 GotEM going to 18/0/51 (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft) seems like a straight forward route but then you have 2 points left to spend somewhere. Some options :
* Either 2/3 Living Seed or 2/3 Replenish but I find both talents a bit meh at the moment. On a sidenote, I took 3/3 Natural Perfection to reach 51 points in resto but if you prefer Living Seed or Replenish over it, you can take one of those talents instead as well.
* Put them in Tranquil Spirit (for a max of 3/5 if you went for 2/3 subtlety) for some mana savings on HT and Nourish (assuming Nourish would maybe become worth it in 3.0.8, this might not be a bad idea). Sidenote: you could still max Tranquil Spirit to 5/5 with this build but it would mean taking 2 points out of Natural Perfection as well. So for 3.0.8 it's very possible to get 3/3 CF, get all the HoT improving talents and max your mana savings on Nourish (3/3 Moonglow + 5/5 Tranquil Spirit).
* You could also just dump the points in GotEM anyway so that you barely need any haste from gear and you can be always at the GCD cap without any outside buffs. (You need 395 haste then to reach the 1s GCD cap on the GotEM affected spells).
* Maybe 2/2 Empowered Touch for higher NS+HT heals but that doesn't sound too attractive to me.
* Also possible for 2/2 Improved Tranq but that spell is close to worthless for anything bigger than 5m heroics.
* Not a first hand choice but maybe going for 3/3 Brambles could be interesting. 15% chance to daze a target that hits you when barkskin is active and 75% more damage from roots and thorns could be interesting for PvP. Plus the extra thorns damage helps tanks a bit with AoE aggro as well for PvE.
* Also more PvP oriented, 2/2 Nature's Reach is an option as well (could have put the 1 point to reach CF there from the start then too).

My personal taste at this moment would go to either 3/3 Brambles (mainly for some extra PvP fun) or 2/3 Living Seed (just to dump em somehere in a healing talent). For 3.0.8 maybe 3/5 Tranquil Spirit depending on how much I would use Nourish, but I doubt that would happen.

 

puebloune

Thx Zipporah and all the others for the good work on the haste rating. Since release, I was under the impression that haste was the hidden cards in the resto druids hand and with all the numbers filling this thread prove this right.

Considering most of the gear we're aiming for already has Stam and Int, I simply go SpellPower/Spirit/Haste/MP5 or crit in order of priority.

I am also specc 18/0/53 and celestial focus is definitaly something you want to aim for if you're a druid that use most of his spells. If you're a one button smasher, then it's different. With the gear scaling, the possibility of removing points in GotEM also allows you to get new toys to play with (brambles, living seed, imp tranq, etc.) that are not "raid mandatory" but can be usefull. About that, it seems that living seed is scaling up faster then I thought with gear.

Going from 15 to 20% crit fully raid buffed, it seems that living seed went from 0.7 to almost 2% of my overall healing. This is something we may want to keep an eye on with the incoming instances and better gear at hand.

 

• Playered

I would attribute the difference between 0.7% and 2.0% due to either higher Regrowth usage, less raid healing/sniping or a mixture of both rather than a mild gain of 5% crit.

 

puebloune

Nope, that's not the case and that's what surprise me the most.

My top 4 spells are lifebloom, regrowth, rejuvenation and wild growth, all of them doing between 20-27% of all my healing. Nourish, HT, tranquility, forethought talisman covering the rest.

When I start raiding Naxx 25, I had roughly 2000 spell power and 15% crit fully raid buffed. Now it's 2600 spell power and 20% crit rating. So both numbers went up fairly good and with all the spell power multiplier, its even more. All that said, I am getting more healing from living seed now with only 2 points in it then I had with 3 points at the start. (Don't ask, my specc is shitty atm).

I will respecc 18/0/53 but with taking out 3 points in GotEM and putting them all in living seed. I'll be GCD cap anyway with raid buffed and I can live with a 1.11 GCD in 5 men.

I am curious what kind of numbers living seed will put on the board. Maybe its a talent that scales pretty well with gear?

 

Zipporah

Assuming you would get all possible raid haste buffs, you would still need 664 haste rating from gear to softcap in raids with 2/5 GotEM and 3/3 CF. It's quite high but possible, but it also means you need a haste item in almost every slot with little other gear choices or flexibility remaining. I don't think that is really recommended since some of the best items in a slot don't have haste on them.

For example I was wearing [Disguise of the Kumiho] until today but just got [Cape of the Unworthy Wizard] from KT. It's a cloak with crit instead of haste, but it has more spellpower, spirit and intellect so it should be the better cloak of the two. Not aiming too high on the removal of GotEM talent points allows me to equip that cloak, re-evaluate my other pieces of gear and swap out some parts as needed (I now have 2 ilvl 213 parts for quite some item slots so I can mix and match quite a bit :p).

Like I said, I think 3/5 GotEM is a nice sweetspot. With the knowledge that I would need 463 haste when fully raidbuffed, I found a nice gear combination that gives me 465 haste. Going any higher in haste means I would need to make some minor sacrifices on spellpower. Now today in our 25 Naxx raid, our only retri paladin wasn't in the raid and the only boomkin was resto specced. Without that aura I'd need 576 haste. So from now on I'm also carrying around a couple of extra haste items to reach 576 haste as well in case I need it because the Swift Ret / Imp Boom aura is missing. But that's something that depends from guild to guild I guess.

On Living Seed and how much it heals. I guess in the end it depends a lot on how you heal. For me in raids WG, LB and REJ are my 3 most used heals, REGR is usally at the 4th spot with about 10-20% of my healing done. I guess if I would heal more with REGR the effective healing of Living Seed would go up as well. Maybe it's something I can focus on next raid, go with 3/3 Living Seed and try to heal more with REGR and seeing how my Living Seed healing would end up then. It's just that I usually feel most useful when I'm throwing HoTs on multiple targets and keep my finger ready at Swiftmend and NS+HT for those oops situations.

In your situation, if you really want to go with 3/3 CF and 3/3 Living Seed then I would recommend only going 2/3 Natural Perfection and stick with 3/5 GotEM (something I might give a try myself on the next respec). That 1% less crit on regrowth isn't going to make a big difference but you can mix and match your gear towards that 465 haste a lot easier (probably even catching up that 1% crit again due to a less haste & more crit gear combination).

 

puebloune

This is also what I had in mind, that whenever you hit the "sweetspot" in terms of haste, to switch to crit and get the benefits from it. I prolly did a mistake in my calculation when it comes to the 1sec GCD, but I am curious anyway to see how good living seed will be with the gear I am currently wearing.

Speaking of gear, can't wait to see Ulduar gear, I have the impression we'll be able to take out even more points in GotEM pretty fast.

 

Borkaar

Hi fellow druids!

This is my first post here so please be patient.

The discussion so far is very broad about the general emphasis a tree should take so maybe my question is a little too specific but I'll try anyway. I'm wondering what idol to take.
At the moment I have the choice between:

[Idol of the Crescent Goddess] which I use at the moment, because I tend to use glyphed Regrowth alot
[Idol of the Emerald Queen] until the upcoming patch as an alternative
[Idol of Lush Moss] after the upcoming patch as a replacement for the Emerald Queen

or are the Rejunevation idols a better choice altogether? Keep in mind that I don't fully spec into Replenishment.
[Idol of Pure Thoughts]
[Idol of Awakening]

As I said, at the moment is the Crescent Godess is my idol of choice but I would like to hear your opinions.

 

puebloune

Idol of Lush Moss is already available and is a must have.

 

Zoltair

I may be completely off base here. But it was my understanding that Haste from Buffs and Gear was derived from your spell cast time (or GCD) AFTER talents not in conjunction with talents.

So since GotE AND CF are talents, this would make your BASE GCD (for RJ, LB, WG) 1.155 seconds (23% reduction).
.155 of a second would result in 13.41% Haste needed from Buffs and Gear... Not 12%.

I am unfortunately unable to get in game to confirm this at this moment, but prior posts led me to believe this was how the calculation worked.

(Removed useless content)

 

puebloune

All the numbers you quote are accurate and verified in game. As for dropping living seed to get genesis, why not dropping Starlight Wrath to get Genesis? Starlight wrath is completely useless for a resto druid. Replenish aint very good either, you have some extra points to play with.

Make sure to read all the previous posts in order to benefits the most from this thread.

 

Zoltair

In regards to Starlight Wrath... that is what happens when you respec out of moonkin too fast. You make mistakes. That being the case.... Negate anything posted regarding Genesis. Lawl (Embarrassed of spec. Figures I'd f'up on a stupid respec before my first EJ post). And trust me... I read!

 

Zipporah

It just depends which talents. CF doesn't reduce the casting time of your spells directly, it's a haste effect that's applied later. Now Starlight Wrath for example is different, that talent first reduces the casting time of Wrath and Starfire by 0,5 seconds. If you do the haste calculations on those spells, you would first need to deduct that 0.5s from your casting time and then go from there.

What they ment in that warlock spell quote by "talents" is not talents in general, they just mean you first need to deduct any casting time reduction talents before starting the haste math.

 

Kamphuijs

Ive seen quite some Lootrank stats, and i made my own lootrank stats from the first post in this topic.

the mana regen intelect gives you and the mana regen spirit gives you from what i could read from the first post they would relate in the following way:

Intelect: 5.2
Spirit: 11.2

If intelect and spirit relate into that way, then MP5 should be valued as:

MP5: 10

Crit and Haste are hard to translate into Mana regen, so those stats are really adjustable to your playstyle, me i try to relate them the following way:

Haste: 0.5
Crit: 1

The reason for this is the proc from the Nature's Grace Talent which is really awesome when u need to spam nourish on a tank when big burst is incomming.
I rate the haste abit lower because you already have the Gift of the Earthmother talent and the Nature's splendor Which makes HoT rotations on multiple tanks ez mode compared to TBC in which u was stacking haste in order to HoT up multiple targets.

Then the last stat, Spellpower.

Spell power: 20

The reason i made this value so ridiculiously high is because i think its the best stat to go for as a resto druid. The more spellpower the harder your HoTs will tick, it scales insane imo.

As the topic name is: Restoration Itemisation i would suggest that the topic creater links some Lootrank links, or good calculations about how the Regen stats MP5, intelect and spirit interact, in the first post. So it will be alot easier for people who are just browsing the topics to look @ the bottomline of all the mathematics.

Cheers.

PS: the link to this lootrank: http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?C....2&Ver=6&err=1

 

red

Your Spirit regen value assumes the player is out of the FSR 100% of the time, which I think is probably a slight overestimation. Additionally I think your value for Spellpower is far, far too high, but I have no objective justification for that belief.

As pawn and lootrank serve essentially the same purpose, and operate the same way, you might consider taking a look at this thread: Pawn addon values for all specs

 

• Playered

How you can logically have Int below Spi is odd, even assuming the 15% Spi->SP you would not really be able to justify it. 1 MP5 should be around the value of 3~ Spi and your value of SP.. well it's hard to really correctly value regen vs throughput so cannot really work out an ideal figure.

Last time I used Lootrank I believe it was something like:
Int 0.2 // Spi 0.15 // MP5 0.2 (I really do not like this stat..) // Haste 0.3 // Crit 0.2 // SP 1

I only briefly used this as a guideline though as I have specific values of Spi & Haste that I would like to end up with in current 'BiS' gear which taint the results slightly.. and honestly even at that level I think I value SP too low but it doesn't really matter that much as in almost every case the highest SP item is listed as the best.

The only items which I disagree with tend to be the Cloak, Ring & Chest but that is due to my self imposed Spi level which allows me 2~ slots without Spi, and my dislike for the wasted MP5 stat.

 

Rijndael

I don't understand how you can say 1 MP5 should be the value of 3 Spi, and then value MP5 at 0.2 and Spi at 0.15 in the same breath. Druid healing gear tends to look like this: Sta, Int, Spi, Spellpower, [auxiliary stat]. The Auxiliary stat tends to be haste, crit or MP5. It is very easy to reach the haste softcap with a few pieces of best in slot gear -- beyond that point haste isn't very useful for many druid healing assignments. Crit really only helps in tank spamming situations (like if you heal one target on patchwerk), otherwise it is fairly useless I think (outside of tank spamming, the direct portion of regrowth + nourish account for maybe 5% of my healing).

This leaves MP5 which I think is the best auxiliary stat to have (but only if the gear also has spirit). MP5 works in situations where you actually need the mana -- where things have either gone wrong or you dropped a healer in favor of dps, and so have to spam constantly. In these situations where a healer is stressed MP5 is significantly stronger than spirit, which is our main stat, and certainly stronger than any auxiliary stat. As such I strongly value pieces like Sympathy robe from Sapphiron, or Sash of Solitude from Patchwerk.

 

Asona

All 3 "auxiliary stats" are down to personal preference tbh - there are pros and cons for having each stat and I don't really think there is a hands-down BEST stat as such out of all 3 of them.
Furthermore, you won't be able to get 100% of your gear with your preferred auxiliary stat, without gimping out on spirit (most of the time).

 

• Playered

4 Spi is roughly 1 MP5 before OO5SR regeneration or Innervate purposes which is why it got lowered down to 3:1~ which could even be too high still considering it scales better on those two factors.
It is also worth noting that 1.9 Int = 1 MP5 before OO5SR regeneration (but including Innervate and all other sources of mana) which should at best go down to 1.75:1 but I am unable to verify that modified figure right now.

Haste has the bonus of freeing up talent points which has the higher chance to be useful come 3.1 when most classes should get some changes to their talents and such, right now it doesn't really matter so it's down to personal preference. We are softcapped on Haste but we can manage the exact level of that softcap by tweaking GoTEM and/or Celestial Focus.

Right now I weight MP5 below it's actual value because of the way itemization is, when we get to Sunwell style itemization with Sta, Int, Sp, SP, Haste and/or Crit, MP5 then I will treat it closer to its real value but right now I'ld rather take the other stats and as such have weakened its worth.


If I had said "this is the perfect Resto Druid lootrank" then sure I would be wrong but I'm rather sure I laced my comments with pointers to it being a personal guideline that is not absolute even for myself.

In terms of longevity the 'absolute' weighting for MP5, Int, Spi should be something like:
MP5 = 1
Int = 0.57~ (0.5-0.6)
Spi = 0.33~ (0.3-0.4)
Keep in mind that there is a balance between Int and Spi which is best to try and keep to in order to get the most out of both stats which is why I had a specific value of Spi to aim for in my gear that deviated me from the true values.

How you then weight the throughput stats like Haste, Crit and SP in relation to that is something which is not so easy to measure and as such I would suggest aiming for specific values of Haste and Crit while trying to always attain the highest SP possible.

Keep in mind that Haste will always be the superior aux stat until you hit the softcap which is why it has the potential to be more useful in future if there are more compelling ways to spend your GoTEM points beyond Natural Perfection.


The best in slot gear should be pretty obvious regardless of your feelings of MP5, Haste or Crit though with the exception of Helm (due to our 226 being underbudget), Chest, Cloak and Rings which come down to your value of Haste or Crit (and Spi) to determine which is superior.
Naturally 4T7 throws a spanner in the works but your best non set item would be [Hood of Rationality] (or [Headpiece of Reconciliation] when fixed) or [Leggings of Mortal Arrogance].

 

Rijndael

That's true, a lot of best in slot gear for druids doesn't have MP5. That is, if it's a choice between Spirit alone or MP5 alone, the former is better. That said, generally if it's down to a piece with only Spirit or a piece that has a Spirit/MP5 split (with the same ilevel), the latter is generally far better in almost all situations due to the 'sublinear' way individual stats scale given ilevel.

Re: haste tweaking with GotEM: that's a good point on haste, although honestly I haven't found very compelling places to dump the points.

 

puebloune

This is my healing breakdown for 2 hours of 3 drakes attempts last nite. My specc is 18/0/53 with 3 points in living Seed, 2 points in Gotem and 3 points in CF (you can check my armory for more details).

Lifebloom 27.2%
Rejuvenation 24.5%
Regrowth 22.3%
Wild Growth 15%
Healing Touch 3.2%
Nourish 2.4%
Swiftmend 2.3%
Living Seed 1.8
Forethougth Talisman 1%
Other stuff 0.3%

I guess less trash means less wild growth usage, usually my top 4 spells are all in the 20% and very close to each other. Although, I can see that living seed is bringing better numbers now then it use to be. An increase from 0.7-1% ish to 1.8%. Which is not too bad. I guess at the moment my optimal specc would be 17/0/54 with only 2 points in CF and 3 in Gotem. I think this 1 point would be more optimal with gotem to help out the insta cast.

Keeping an eye on living seed is something I recommand to everyone at the moment, this talent seems to be scaling quite well and fast with gear.

P.S. I had all the raid buff possible.