Ok, first things first, we want to know how much haste you need to get 1s GCD on spells effected by GotEM. To find that out we need to figure out exactly what GotEM does. So lets actually read that post since you obviously have not. The first thing it does is state that GotEM removes 0.3s from the GCD after haste effects have been applied. Now you obviously do not believe that so how about verifying with the method provided in that post.

So make that macro, bind it to some convenient button and cast thorns or whatever spell you want and press the macro. It should say 1.5/haste in your chat window since that should be the cooldown on that spell (the gcd from casting thorns). Now cast lifebloom and press the macro again and it should be painfully obvious that it's 0.3s lower. Hence the need to only reduce it to 1.3s with haste since GotEM does the rest.

GotEM reduces your current gcd with 20% of the base gcd. In a "mathy" way if that makes more sense: 1.3 - 1.5*0.20 = 1

So stop spewing out your "here's how it should work" math and actually do some tests in game to back up your claims.

So what you're saying is that GotEM removes 0.3s from the 1.5s GCD.

With 0 haste, I fully and wholeheartedly agree with you.

However, the text from GotEM reads:

Reduces the base global cooldown of your Rejuvenation, Lifebloom and Wild Growth spells by 20%.
Gift of the Earthmother - Spell - World of Warcraft

I agree with you completely that:



However, you have also stated:

(rest of quote removed as its the part I have issue with)

It appears I was confused by the logic you where employing. I understood the statement above to indicate that, GotEM is not taking 20% of 1.5s off your cast time, it is taking 20% off the adjusted GCD after haste has lowered the GCD.

The logic of taking off 0.3s because only applies if the GotEM adjustment is done on the 1.5s base GCD first or ...

From what I can deduce, in order to fit the model you've presented, haste and GotEM interact as such (this was what I needed you to explain for me to get your model):


where x is the resulting casting time (or GCD) and h remains our percentage haste.

If this is the model you're presenting to calculate the casting speed based on GotEM's interactions with haste, then I can accept that on the basis that I haven't done accurate empirical testing yet as i haven't been able to get a high enough haste value on my gear to validate or negate either model.

Model A (yours):


Model B (my assumed model from my reading):



I was not trying to be contentious or claim a higher knowledge, I simply did not interpret your statements across the various posts to indicate that the GotEM bonus was fixed. I beleived from all you had indicated, that the 20% reduction was applied to the effective GCD after haste had been applied. Your model, if I have it correct now, does not matter whether haste is applied before or after, as they are applied independently to the 1.5s GCD.

Also my confusion may have come from the fact that in Beta, GotEM began as a fixed value, was nerfed to a smaller fixed value, then buffed to a percentage, then a further percentage. Therefore it didn't make sense that it would be a percentage of a fixed value as this is no different to a fixed value anyway.

EDIT: Corrected an error with the presentation of the latex equations

Well Eloarel I was with you in the nevermind post, but Uliko postet a

/script print((select(2, GetActionCooldown(1))))

and he mentioned that it doesn't matter how much haste you got, say 150 haste -> Global CD of Thorns is GC of LB +0.3

The Tooltip is not wrong but misleading!!! its 20% of BASE Global Cooldown.

Base Global CD is ALLWAYS 1.5 Sec because its the BASE Global CD and does not count haste.

But interesting is that this -0.3 Sec is applied after Haste -> It's for our good.

I haven't had a chance to test this myself, as I said regarding empirical data, but if that's the case, yes the tooltip is wrong (or misleading). I did note that all the posts regarding the use of those figures was pre-release though, so I'll test it myself to be happy with it in my own mind.

If the collective wisdom is that its 0.3 and not 20% of the haste modified GCD then, cool, it lowers the amount of haste I have to collect. I just didn't want to fall short due to a misinterpretation. I'm not concerned about who is right, just what is right. Though I might be posting a few things at Blizzard

EDIT: Testing on my Boomer respecced to Resto, 1.394 for thorns, 1.094 for Lifebloom.

Therefore GotEM's buff is independent of the Haste, so regardless of which is applied first, they're additive on the base, not multiplicative. Now I have the question: WTF was the point of all the changes in Beta. They could have just taken the 0.5 to 0.3 and walked away.

I've thought about this for a while, and while OoC certainly is useful, I find that the times when I would need it most (Sapph or KT) I don't really have the time to keep an eye on my buff bar to watch for it when it appears. I've heard people say it has a unique sound, but I turn off all the sound so I can hear Vent chatter; any suggestions on how to make this more noticeable so it can be taken advantage of more?

TellMeWhen and Powerauras are two addons which can help show you whatever proc you wish in a fashion you desire.

Well that Dreamstate build is obviously a no-go, but I'm convinced that a LG/GotEM build like this one might actually be preferable in some raid environments over a conventional Wild Growth build. This should be especially true after 3.0.8's Wild Growth change, and possibly even more so with the introduction of loot from Ulduar.

Gains:

• 75% extra Thorns damage; admittedly a minor bonus but min/maxing is min/maxing right?
• 3% passive haste on *all* spells; 18/0/53 builds already have this, but crit builds don't
• 12% int > spell power; this of course scales with Kings, Mark, and AI, meaning 110+ spell power raid buffed

Losses:

• 2pts in GotEM, which is .12sec added to the base HoT GCD
• Wild Growth
• 2 other points - you cannot afford more than 1/3 of Living Seed, Replenishment, or Natural Perfection.

I'm thinking of this specifically as a 25-man raiding build. I have no doubt as to this build's limitations in all other settings. I am assuming 8% haste from Wrath of Air Totem and Moonkin Aura.

Obviously the most biggest change is the loss of Wild Growth. I'm definitely one in the camp who feels that it's not a necessary spell at all, especially post-nerf. In almost all cases a smart healer can heal just as effectively with our traditional methods of preemptive hotting and swiftmend rejuvs, plus now Nourish.

The next most important factor is that by going to only 3/5 GotEM, your base HoT GCD is 1.32sec. I'm using the following formula:

[1.5 - (1.5 * .12)]/(100 - h) = 1.0 where h is the % haste needed for a 1.0sec GCD, and .12 represents 3/5 GotEM.

If this is correct then you need 24.25% haste for a .9999sec GCD. With 3% from WoA, 5% from Moonkin Aura, and 3% from Celestial Focus (11% total), you need 13.25% haste from gear.

Using Whitetooth's Combat Ratings Figures, 32.78998947 haste rating is needed for 1% haste. 13.25 * 32.78998947 = 434.46736 haste rating needed from gear. Unfortunately it's tricky to balance, but it seems like if you have most-spellpower-in-slot everywhere (like in this sample build) you have almost exactly what you need. Keep in mind, also, that if you're really hurting for the haste you could just use a 22/0/49 build and not worry about it at all, at the expense of 35-40 spell power.

The niche of this build would obviously be on fights with multiple tanks, with either minimal raid healing or with other healers who can handle the raid. For example, the spec would rock on Patchwerk or Sarth 3D. It currently sucks for Sapphiron and it's less than ideal for Loatheb, though.

I'd welcome any comments, corrections, complaints, gold donations, etc.

I'm kind of confused why this topic has come up for what seems like the fourth time. Did you read Uliko's posts at all? I'm just wondering what the point of all this reiteration is.

Also, in beta GotE went from a flat .5 second reduction to .15 second reduction (10% GCD reduction wording) with mana return on HT/Nourish to .3 second reduction (20% GCD reduction wording). The different wording was most likely to appease the concerned/angry players.


Edit-
Oh I see now.

The world will never know. :o

I just tell everyone how much haste they need, saves them all that math. 400 haste in a 10-man environment, 220 haste in 25-mans. (220 if you have both a moonkin and shammy/pally) Also, 400-500 mp5 while casting seems to be good regeneration. (unbuffed of course)

Magic numbers you pull out of your arse have little purpose here.
400-500 MP5 (Mana while inside the 5 sec rule) is an absurd number that you -might- get while raid buffed in pretty solid gear. 400-500 Regen (Mana while outside the 5 sec rule) is a very small number that means you are undergeared for Naxx 10.

For a point of reference I have 261 MP5 / 840 Regen in mostly 25man gear unbuffed with a fairly broad spread of stats (no spiritless items).

I hope you think twice and make sure any 'advice' you give people in future comes with a warning.

Except with those stats you'd have 881 OO5SR regen and 296 inside. Also your profile is not filled out correctly since that character doesn't exist.