badma

Sorry, my bad. Thought mana tide totem restores 40% of mana pool. Just put the right number in formula and got the same 0.41 mp5 per 1 int.

 

Allinone

Lootrank Assuming:
Blessing of Kings (10% Bonus to All Stats)
Living Spirit (15% Bonus to Spirit)
Improved Tree of Life (15% of All Spirit Converted to Spell Power)
Ember Skyflare Diamond Meta Gem (2% Bonus to Int)
8 Minute Fight (Shorter fights put more weight to Int)
25% of heals cast can crit (Debatable, based on play style. More direct heals will lead to higher crit and slightly higher Int ratings)
80% Uptime on Replenish (A better assumption than 100%, but I wont swear by this as accurate either)
No Time spent outside the 5 Second Rule (Not entirely true, but druids should gear more for this case, then planning to take mana breaks during boss fights)
1300 Int/Spirit (A level that should be able to be achieved raid buffed at the higher ends of gear)

Int = .5255
Spirit = .5332
Spell Power = .8
Mp5 = 1
Haste = .12
Crit = .056

Additional Stats you may wish to add

Innervate
Adds .0551 to Int (.06896 Glyphed)
Adds .1271 to Spirit (.1589 Glyphed)

Mana Tide
Adds .0412 to Int (.04812 Glyphed)

Observations:
It appears that near 1300 Int and Spirit, the relative value for each become very close indeed, with Int continuing to bring about more mana regeneration, and spirit bringing about slightly more Spell Power. Baring major changed on the part of blizzard, in the next major content patch (3.2), as our gear becomes even better (1400/1400) the number might support spirit as the top in both categories (Int scales as a square root, Spirit Scales directly), but this is obviously a long way away. Also, and I can't stress this enough. This list is made specifically for the higher end Uldar gear. If you are a new aspiring resto druid (Heroics, Entry level Naxx), this list is not for you.

As a side note. 1300/1300 would bring you to 653 mp5 while in 5sr (plus 250 mp5 assuming 80% Replenish) for a total of 902 mp5 before any raid food, Blessing of Wisdom, Mana Spring, Mana Tide, Innervate. We would also have 22.7k mana to burn through, which roughly translates to 236.6 mp5 over the 8 minute fight, all together this will translate to just over 1250 mp5 functional mp5 raid buffed (Translation, if you averaged spending 1250 mana every 5 seconds, it would take you 8 minutes to run out of mana, without using innervate or mana tide)

Again, Mana Regen wise I feel this is solid. Mana regen is fairly easy to approximate since it is all based off a given formula. As echoed by Playered and Paininabox, I feel that any weakness to this scale will come from the stats designed around increasing your HPS. More in depth modeling of the new Living Seed as well as experience in healing and mana management in 3.1 will allow for a better mp5 to Spell Power comparison.

Loot Rank Link:
Loot Rank 1300/1300

 

Demagogue

Okay... so I've been going through the lists of gear we do know about and have pieced together what I will probably use, but I have some really messed up numbers that are scaring me.

Items:
Shroud of Alteration
Conqueror's Nightsong Robe
Boots of Fiery Resolution
Handwraps of the Vigilant
Conqueror's Nightsong Headpiece
Conqueror's Nightsong Leggings
Guiding Star
Watchful Eye
Ironmender
Lady Maye's Sapphire Ring
Glowing Ring of Reclamation
Conqueror's Nightsong Spaulders
Cord of the White Dawn
Bracers of the Broodmother

------
This is with
Purified Twilight Opals in Blue,
Luminious Monarch Topaz in Yellow,
Runed Scarlet Ruby in Red
The 25SP + 2% Int Meta (Although I don't take the Int into my calculations)
and NO enchants on anything.

Totals:
Spell Power: 2057
Mana Regen: ******
Crit Rating: 296
Haste Rating: 391
-------

Now what is scaring me is the 726 Mana Regen while Casting... mainly because that is over double what I have at the moment.
The formula I'm using to calculate Mana Regen is:
Regen = ******

I was using Paininabox's excel layout, although my own forumla because I wasn't sure if I could just add items to his sheet and have then calculate in. And the numbers that Norfair has in his opening post of this thread

Have I messed up my numbers or is this the kinda of regen we can be expecting in there. I mean this wasn't even a 'regen' set. I have 11 of the highest DPS items and 7 of the highest Regen items (5 of which were the same items)

Go figure my first actual post would be one that is crazy sounding =(

[e] Editting out my forumla so it doesn't get read through people trying to figure things out and using it by mistake

 

Paininabox

First, yes you can add gear that's not in the drop-down boxes. Put it in the extra row, it will work as normal. I put your setup in and that gives me about 226 mp5 casting. The reason why you're so far off is your formula is very wrong. You can read about how it's calculated here.

Level 80 Restoration Druid Spreadsheet here.
(v1.41)

 

Demagogue

thanks Pain reading through your doc now... I've edited out my formula as well to make sure no one grabs it thinking it is correct.

 

• uliko

Decently accurate formula, change 0,6 to 1 for pre-3.1 stats.

Why hit food is bad
"You have to spend 10 seconds to apply it, you have to fish it and you cant use the feast."

 

Inorrri

Anybody else noticed how badly the equip bonus on legendary is itemized for resto druids?
Say in a guild composition of 3 priests, 2 paladins, 1 resto druid, 1 resto shaman. Say no "legendary for friends" corruption. Any reason why a resto druid can ask for that mace over paladins/priests/shamans?
It's not even about breaking the steorotypes like with cloth vs leather, resto druids just won't benefit as much as paladin/priest from it.

 

Paininabox

Legendaries should not be about min/maxing. Of course, you wouldn't want to give one to a class that only gets 20% of the benefit that another class would (like the rogue that got the legendary bow over a hunter). They should be given to the player that deserves it most through dedication to the guild and being a solid player. If your best healer is a druid, it should go to a druid even if the paladin gains 8% more benefit from the mace or whatever. That said, if Blizzard does their job right, it should be best-in-slot for every healer. I'd also like to point out that we do not know if the mace will have different versions for each healer, which could also mean different equip procs tailored for each healing class. All we know so far is that it's orange and puts shields on people. Frankly, anyone that is making any definitive decisions with such sketchy knowledge is jumping to conclusions.

In my personal opinion, if any guild is forbidding their best healer the mace based on a datamined tooltip, they're doing it wrong.

Level 80 Restoration Druid Spreadsheet here.
(v1.41)

 

Inorrri

How do you decide best healer amongst different classes? Healing meters? How do you decide who's the most dedicated? If 3 people never miss a raid, but one of them is in the guild for 9 months and two are for 6, then the first is more dedicated? Anyway, the moral side of oranges is not the point here, it's the bonus itself. "If your best healer is a druid, it should go to a druid even if the paladin gains 8% more benefit from the mace or whatever.", this should not be the case from the start.

Stats-wise it should be equal to all classes, so only thing we should actually analyze is the equip bonus, which was already revealed. And knowing Blizzard, I highly doubt they've put extra care to proc mechanic just for druids. Current wording is obviously not favoring druids, so if they took the extra mile to make the druids happy, it's really weird not to mention it.
Moreover, I bet it will proc off 1stack lbs and last ticks of wg and such.

 

Paininabox

I'm not going to bother discussing guild politics or subjective and arbitrary concepts of "deserving" the mace more. It's a case-by-case issue. As to "this should not be the case from the start", there's a difference between what should be and what is. Unfortunately some healer is going to be on the low end and another on the high end in terms of how good the mace is per class, due to differing mechanics.

"Stats-wise it should be equal to all classes"
This is a stupid assumption. If there's only one version of the mace, then some healers will not like the stats as much as others, aka spirit versus mp5, haste versus crit etc. If there are multiple versions itemized for each class, then you could just as easily assume that the proc would be different for each class as well.

I don't think you understand what I meant when I said datamined. Nothing was "revealed" officially. In fact, the proc could be entirely different for all we know.

Since you're hellbent on getting an answer, here you go. All healing spells are essentially increased by 15%, as far as we can determine from the tooltip. Thus, whoever is highest on the healing done charts gains the largest increase. Since any healing class can top the charts, with fluctuations based on encounter mechanics, all healing specs are equally favored. There is no hint whatsoever in the tooltip that it only works on direct heals, or that it uses overhealing in the shield value.

"I bet it will proc off 1stack lbs and last ticks of wg and such"
Yeah, I think Blizzard is out to shaft resto druids; they hate us.

Level 80 Restoration Druid Spreadsheet here.
(v1.41)

 

• Playered

Look unless there is more than one version of the mace then it will have Int, Stamina and SP of which every item does and is unbiased between any class really, Spirit will not show up unless there are different versions.
You have the equip effect which is logically worse for a Druid due to our strengths and general play style which does not honestly support using big heals that often on targets which would most benefit from the shields - don't take this as me saying it is useless for a Druid but it is less optimal in more than just the effect itself (and we don't even know how it interacts with HoTs or with itself).
You then will either have all or a mix of MP5, Critical Strike and Haste of which the latter two are still rather poor for us and MP5 is MP5.

I highly doubt we will have the perfect Druid stats by which I mean something like 750+ SP as going by typical ilvl/sp relations it should end up around 580-620 and somehow I doubt we will manage to escape having a hefty amount (as in 60+) of either Critical Strike and/or Haste and a large amount of MP5.


We will find out in a month or two how exactly the stats end up on it but due to our natural play style and lack of use from both Critical Strike and Haste the chances of a generic healer mace being tailored to our very fussy standards are low.

Your guild can hand it out carelessly as a reward for the player who deserves it by long standing merits, by who gets the best use out of the effect (which tend to be the key aspects of Legendaries) or by a mixture of both. The majority of Druids who are eyeballing their guilds first mace are most likely thinking in the lines of "no one else deserves it as much as me" and "it's orange /fap /fap /fap" rather than who it will benefit the raid most from and how good it will actually be for us (for what it's worth I passed any rights on our guilds first one).
As much as I would like to have a legendary I would rather have an item better suited to my needs so if there is a mace with equal SP and having Spirit instead of excess ratings and MP5 then I will be perfectly happy with that instead of the legendary one because we can't even really bring looks into the equation due to forms...

In the end it shouldn't really matter who gets it because by the time you get it your guild should be suitably progressed through Ulduar and nothing currently known about it makes it seem like something which could alter your raid balance.

One thing to keep in mind is that as we are the healer most focused on pure SP above all else we are more susceptible to wanting to upgrade over it when higher ilvl weapons become available in 3.2/3.3 with higher SP (if it does not have exceptionally high levels of it) as weapons tend to provide the biggest chunk of SP upgrade.

 

grimtage

Yeah. But we scale more from the spell power given than any other healy class. If they didn't give a bonus effect to non-druids, then there would be no point in giving it to anyone but druids, since it obviously will have significantly more spell power than the epics. My guess is, Blizzard have made it as much of an upgrade for every class. Of course, those who get to be on the decision for these things will make the same mistake you guys did - assuming that the mace is balanced *without* the equip effect. I, however, believe blizzard will make it balanced *with* the equip effect. (Probably just setting myself up for a fall, but optimism is my thing)

 

Fateblade

So I was fortunate enough to get the 4 piece bonus this week(Nearly all vanquisher drops in 10). I did limited testing on it but I can say the 4pct8 bonus scales with Spellpower, but can not crit. I tested this by taking off gear and only leaving on the t8 and I can confirm the instant heal portion was much smaller. So heres the skinny on the numbers I was getting.

I can reach 3040 healing power with my trinket fully stacked and the largest bonus proc I got was 2173. The proc itself is still called Rejuvenation, and it shows up on WowMeter as an unranked Rejuvenation.

Here is a parse of Ignis - the bonus accounted for nearly 10% of my healing, when I was pre-juving the raid

Ignis the Furnacemaster


I know the community is very anxious about this information and I am more than willing to do any testing that is truly warranted.

- After limited testing it would seem the [Glyph of Rejuvenation] does not effect the bonus

- So I stripped down to strictly t8 and had a bonus healing of 675, and then tried casting and got a proc of 642. If I then stack 1 proc of IotDS(20 Sp) I would get a proc of 651, and then 661, 670, 678, 688, 696...as the trinket stacked up. So it would seem it scales linearly at about 45% Sp + 300.

If I then shift into Tree Form I have 750 bonus healing and a proc of 745, 755, 765, 776, 785...
This would suggest a ratio of 55% Sp.

(3040 Sp(0.45) + 300) 1.06 tree aura = 1768 which is at the lowest deviation from that parse I linked above.

However in practice I was getting ones that were much higher. It would seem I'm missing something. Perhaps theres some Mathletes who'd care to lend a hand in cracking this case.

 

Fallenangel

Can you compare the heals you get from the bonus to your normal rejuv ticks and post these figures?

 

Inorrri

Let's find out how to calculate Rejuv ticks first.

Rejuv coefficient 37.604% (per tick)
Rejuv base tick 338 health
Empovered Rejuv 20%
Genesis 5%
ToL 6%
Master shapeshifter 4%
Improved Rejuv 15%
Gift of the Nature 10%

Assuming 2500 SP: (338+2500*0.37604)*1.15*1.06*1.04*1.2*1.05*1.1 = 2245 which is roughly what I see when my rejuv ticks at 2450 sp.

Assuming 3000 SP: (338+3000*0.37604)*1.15*1.06*1.04*1.2*1.05*1.1 = 2576 which is roughly the average of what we see on your wowmeters report (the 2825 proc might be because of GS or shaman totem or some other temporary buff. The difference between min and max is too big to be something else)


Now all that's left is to find out what exactly 4pT8 doesn't take into account.

My guess would be Genesis and Empowered Rejuvenation. Would make a bit of sence, since direct instant heal isn't really a hot.

(338+3000*0.37604)*1.06*1.04*1.1*1.15 = 2044
A bit too much.

Now if we take out Gift of the Nature (which doesn't make any sence at all), it will show:

(338+3000*0.37604)*1.06*1.04*1.15 = 1858

which is basically what wowmeters show up.

In conclusion: I think 4pT8 is bugged, it should heal for the full amount, rather than taking random bonuses into account. But then again I'm bad at calculating stuff, so it might be off.

 

Fateblade

675 Healing power - adding 20sp in increments

proc - Rejuv tic
642 - 835
651 - 847
661 - 859
670 - 870
678 - 882


750 Healing power + ToL aura - adding 20sp in increments

746 - 969
755 - 982
765 - 995
776 - 1008
785 - 1021


Maybe since its a bonus, it's not considered a spell. And in that case you're dead on

 

Inorrri

Well the easiest way to check this is for you to unspec and check effects of different talents on different sp numbers step-by-step.

 

Erdluf

Your numbers are consistent with (remove ToL and MSS when not shifted):

tick = (1690 (base) + 1.88 (coef) * 1.2 (ER) * Spellpower) * (1 + .05 (Genesis) + .15 (IR) + .1 (GoN)) * 1.04 (MSS) * 1.06 (ToL) / 5

4t8 proc = (1690 (base) + 1.88 (coef) * 1.2 (ER) * Spellpower) * 1.04 (MSS) * 1.06 (ToL) / 5

So the proc is not benefitting from Genesis, Improved Rejuvenation, or Gift of Nature. It is benefitting from Empowered Rejuvenation, Master Shapeshifter, and Tree of Life.

 

Inorrri

Can somebody from US report this as a bug please? I'm pretty sure it wasn't intended that way.

 

madmike253

I've been reading through these posts for a while and I've seen the results on Rawr favoring Int over Spi, but I'm not quite sure why this is. I've been playing a druid for a while and I've always been under the impression that Spi was much more favorable than Int because it gives us SP and regen.

Why is it bad to socket a +16 gem?
Why is Int such a great stat for us?

 

Nathadir

The reason why int is so valuable as a stat, is basically because of Replenishment, which grants you a huge regen bonus, and that bonus does not depend on spirit. Given the 3.1 nerf to regen, the amount of mana you gain before adding Replenishment, is 60% of what you would get before 3.1. However, this does not affect Replenishment, making it even better. As the above poster already said, you will not see spirit take over until late in Ulduar.

 

• uliko

Intellect will in all normal gear setups always give more mana then spirit. You'd need something retarded as 1750int and 1500spi for spirit to give more mana in an 8 minute fight. Assuming 100% FSR time and one innervate, no glyph.

The lower your spirit gets the bigger the difference has to be. Even going up to 1700 spirit you still need around 200 more intellect for spirit to win. Just gem intellect if you need mana and spellpower if you don't, spirit is a stupid stat and picking it above intellect because of the spellpower gains is stupid.

Using some made up numbers for BiS Ulduar gear at 1200 int and 1600 spirit (probably higher then it will be) intellect will be giving ~15 more mana (65 vs 50) per point then spirit in the above fight.

Why hit food is bad
"You have to spend 10 seconds to apply it, you have to fish it and you cant use the feast."

 

Erdluf

Done.

Bug Report Forum.

 

Celeras

Some napkin math for BiS & set items, due to the fact that there are some non-set pieces that are significantly better then T8. Assuming the 4pc set bonus is mandatory, there is only one slot where you'd be allowed to use an offset item. Here are the best candidates from what I can see:

[Shoulderpads of Dormant Energies]
[Gloves of the Frozen Glade]

Using 19sp for red, 9sp/8spirit for blue, and 9sp 8int for yellow, here are the comparsions:

Using offset shoulders + t8 gloves:
145 stam
133 int
129 spirit
103 crit
232sp

Using offset gloves + t8 shoulders:
145 stam
141 int
125 spirit
48 haste
55 crit
226 sp

In my particular setup, I was 38 haste off being GCD capped w/ GoTEM with both shoulder/glove slots empty. So I'd use the offset gloves. If you dont need the haste however, use the shoulders.

Thought i'd share~

 

Fallenangel

Not to continue the nourish/regrowth/GHT argument here, but regrowth benefits very little from crit rating. I'm gonna continue my no-crit policy, which will sadly be broken for 4t8.
For a true BiS list you need to wait for all the hard modes to be beaten, anyway.