The lack of haste on our tier set is actually not as big of a problem as it initially looks. Consider that we will probably be using:
Belt of Arctic Life, 40 haste
Greater Speed cloak enchant, 23 haste
Bracers of the Broodmother, 36 haste
Ironmender, 36 haste
Evoker's Charm, 42 haste
T8 hat, 59 haste (54 for 10-man)
T8 shoulders, 48 haste (44 for 10-man)
One or two rings with 30+ haste each
This adds up to just over 300 haste already. The target for softcapped raidbuffed haste (that is, a 1.0 GCD with Wrath of Air and Imp Moonkin or Swift Ret Aura) is 359. So switching a single crit-itemized tier piece for one with similar stats but haste should get you close to this soft-cap.
The soft-cap thing is getting thrown around like it means something.
The haste "soft-cap" is the point where it stops affecting rejuv, LB and WG. Crit has barely any effect of these heals anyway (unless you call the bloom critting a major boost). So for these 3, haste is clearly better below the soft-cap and very marignally worse above (although you can drop points in GotEM - for somewhat useful talents).
Haste is better for regrowth. Not a little bit better. Not a toss-up better. TONS better. Most of regrowth's healing comes from the HoT part.
For nourish I couldn't really say, but since you need less haste rating for 1% I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out better here too.
Crit is bad. Nothing fundamental has changed since TBC yet we are supposed to accept having crit on our gear after not using it for 2 years.
For now, I'm doing leather only. I think it's fair to assume most guilds, your clothies will get to roll on the cloth drops long before we do. Once the full list is up for resto/boom, we'll probably add some of the better cloth gear.
The soft-cap thing is getting thrown around like it means something.
The haste "soft-cap" is the point where it stops affecting rejuv, LB and WG. Crit has barely any effect of these heals anyway (unless you call the bloom critting a major boost). So for these 3, haste is clearly better below the soft-cap and very marignally worse above (although you can drop points in GotEM - for somewhat useful talents).
Haste is better for regrowth. Not a little bit better. Not a toss-up better. TONS better. Most of regrowth's healing comes from the HoT part.
For nourish I couldn't really say, but since you need less haste rating for 1% I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out better here too.
Crit is bad. Nothing fundamental has changed since TBC yet we are supposed to accept having crit on our gear after not using it for 2 years.
I wouldn't go so far as that. If you tend to use RG in bursts or have short periods of burst healing with Nourish then provided you have Nature's Grace critical strike isn't that bad as it somewhat equates into "bonus haste". Naturally it isn't as 'good' as it used to be when NG lasted 15 seconds but if you adapt your usage around the new version you still get some acceptable results.
I wouldn't go so far as that. If you tend to use RG in bursts or have short periods of burst healing with Nourish then provided you have Nature's Grace critical strike isn't that bad as it somewhat equates into "bonus haste". Naturally it isn't as 'good' as it used to be when NG lasted 15 seconds but if you adapt your usage around the new version you still get some acceptable results.
Wouldn't go as far as what? Is there any stat you would prefer to have crit over?
Crit will never ever be worth it unless it will have some effect on hots.
Haste is better for regrowth. Not a little bit better. Not a toss-up better. TONS better. Most of regrowth's healing comes from the HoT part.
On paper, most of the Regrowth healing comes from the HoT part. But you don't cast RG strictly for the HoT, that's generally just bonus healing. You cast it when:
a) You need something a little slower and bigger than Nourish (Throughput > Speed in this case or you'd cast Nourish, so Crit can compete with Haste pretty well in this scenario)
b) You need a HoT to Nourish (can make a case for Haste or Crit when using Nourish)
c) You need a HoT to Mend (Haste does nothing in this scenario)
I also feel like there's something to be said for pushing crit to increase the liklihood that you're able to get rolling NG buffs to keep perma-haste while spamming Nourish, but that's more anecdotal than anything provable.
Wouldn't go as far as what? Is there any stat you would prefer to have crit over?
Crit will never ever be worth it unless it will have some effect on hots.
Isn't this the case where the stats are pushing the playstyle rather than the playstyle pushing the stats? I'm currently at 575 haste and use CF to push it even higher. Even so 60-80% of my healing in general case comes from HoTs. No matter how you look at this, there is no way I can effectively convert all my haste into healing numbers so most if it is typically going to waste, however, I don't feel like taking crit would help me in any sort of way (since so much healing comes from HoTs anyway and this haste at least lets me not worry about having or not having a totem, boomkin, whatever else so at least I feel like it's doing something for me.
Seems to me that crit is a primarily tank-healing stat - it lets you achieve higher raw HPS at the cost of less mana, and it synergizes with tank-healing talents like Living Seed (ok, that's pretty much it I guess). If you talk about raid healing, crit seems to make no difference at all. If you cast direct heal at someone in the raid, usually they took damage, they are not in the danger of immediate death and the job is to get them out of 10-20% HP zone to 50%+ HP zone and let them top off from HoTs before the next "whack'emall" boss ability.
However, if you had sufficient crit you could go for a bit different play style and rely on crit to generally top off people in the raid with one cast and no need for HoT - pally style. However, I don't think we can push crit high enough for this to be a viable healing strategy, and the only spell that we could use for that would be a glyphed healing touch and it doesn't seem to mesh that well with the resto talents that we have.
I wouldn't go so far as that. If you tend to use RG in bursts or have short periods of burst healing with Nourish then provided you have Nature's Grace critical strike isn't that bad as it somewhat equates into "bonus haste". Naturally it isn't as 'good' as it used to be when NG lasted 15 seconds but if you adapt your usage around the new version you still get some acceptable results.
Crit is obviously not useless (like say strength!) but it is really quite bad. Not only is haste better for 'burst healing' than crit, but it also helps with rapid decurses (which come up on Yogg), and its throughput increase has low variance, unlike crit. It's not even clear to me crit gets more living seeds per unit time than an equivalent amount of haste.
I have shed most of my crit except in obvious best in slot pieces (like the Malygos quest neck) or tier pieces, which obviously we would all wear regardless of what stat they had because the bonus is so good.
Hots will crit one day. Unfortunately Blizzard feels resto is in a good spot right now, and doesn't want to rock the balance boat with a large change.
The soft-cap thing is getting thrown around like it means something.
The haste "soft-cap" is the point where it stops affecting rejuv, LB and WG. Crit has barely any effect of these heals anyway (unless you call the bloom critting a major boost). So for these 3, haste is clearly better below the soft-cap and very marignally worse above (although you can drop points in GotEM - for somewhat useful talents).
Haste is better for regrowth. Not a little bit better. Not a toss-up better. TONS better. Most of regrowth's healing comes from the HoT part.
For nourish I couldn't really say, but since you need less haste rating for 1% I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out better here too.
Crit is bad. Nothing fundamental has changed since TBC yet we are supposed to accept having crit on our gear after not using it for 2 years.
You're missing a major problem. Going over 450~500(not sure of exact number) haste will take your Nourish cast with Nature's Grace effect under a 1 second cast when fully buffed. This is detrimental because it means we can't queue our next Nourish cast, we have to wait for GCD and then cast another. So spamming/chaining it at every 1.02 (my current cast time) seconds during huge tank damage phases will be that much slower, not faster.
So yes, we have a haste soft-cap, but I think of haste as filling up a glass of water. You fill it up to the point that you're thirsty to (soft-cap) then anything extra is just bonus, until you start spilling water because it's going over the sides(hard-cap?). I'm not totally sure if crit is worth going for over haste at this point, I'm still trying to figure that out myself. Anyone got any clues I'm missing?
On paper, most of the Regrowth healing comes from the HoT part. But you don't cast RG strictly for the HoT, that's generally just bonus healing.
This is just not true. I'm not basing what I'm saying on the theoretical healing values of the HoT vs. direct heal of regrowth but on parses of combat logs. Regrowth shines the most when the hot is put to good use - Mimiron p2 being the prominent example. It's the direct heal that I see as the bonus.
As for haste dropping nourish cast time below 1s - like I said the haste-crit question is a lot more balanced for nourish-heavy healing. When 100% of your heal can actually crit, crit rating gains some value.
You 'should' only be using Regrowth if you are getting the benefit of both components of the heal else you use Rejuvenation or Nourish/HT*. Even that comes into question once you have 4T8 though but until more people start actually getting that it's hard to know for sure especially in hard modes where you are required to maximize your healing as much as possible - it could not be enough still.
Innervate: This ability has been redesigned to grant 450% of the casting Druid’s base mana pool to the target over 20 seconds.
This change should be a nerf of around 1,500 mana to most well geared trees however we can now give whoever needs it 15,732 mana which is a welcome change.
Also stuff just got a bit one-sided in the mana regen from intellect or spirit department. This is with replenishment set at 80% uptime.
Intellect:
Spirit ->
1000
1100
1200
1300
1400
1500
1600
1700
1800
1900
2000
Intellect
1000
47.22
48.65
50.07
51.49
52.92
54.34
55.77
57.19
58.61
60.04
61.46
1100
46.56
47.92
49.28
50.63
51.99
53.35
54.71
56.06
57.42
58.78
60.14
1200
45.98
47.28
48.58
49.88
51.18
52.48
53.78
55.08
56.38
57.68
58.98
1300
45.47
46.72
47.97
49.22
50.47
51.72
52.97
54.22
55.46
56.71
57.96
1400
45.02
46.22
47.43
48.63
49.83
51.04
52.24
53.44
54.65
55.85
57.05
1500
44.61
45.77
46.94
48.10
49.26
50.43
51.59
52.75
53.91
55.08
56.24
1600
44.24
45.37
46.49
47.62
48.75
49.87
51.00
52.12
53.25
54.37
55.50
1700
43.91
45.00
46.09
47.18
48.28
49.37
50.46
51.55
52.64
53.74
54.83
1800
43.60
44.66
45.72
46.78
47.84
48.91
49.97
51.03
52.09
53.15
54.21
1900
43.32
44.35
45.38
46.42
47.45
48.48
49.51
50.55
51.58
52.61
53.65
2000
43.06
44.06
45.07
46.08
47.08
48.09
49.10
50.10
51.11
52.12
53.12
Spirit:
Spirit ->
1000
1100
1200
1300
1400
1500
1600
1700
1800
1900
2000
Intellect
1000
32.75
32.75
32.75
32.75
32.75
32.75
32.75
32.75
32.75
32.75
32.75
1100
34.35
34.35
34.35
34.35
34.35
34.35
34.35
34.35
34.35
34.35
34.35
1200
35.88
35.88
35.88
35.88
35.88
35.88
35.88
35.88
35.88
35.88
35.88
1300
37.35
37.35
37.35
37.35
37.35
37.35
37.35
37.35
37.35
37.35
37.35
1400
38.76
38.76
38.76
38.76
38.76
38.76
38.76
38.76
38.76
38.76
38.76
1500
40.12
40.12
40.12
40.12
40.12
40.12
40.12
40.12
40.12
40.12
40.12
1600
41.43
41.43
41.43
41.43
41.43
41.43
41.43
41.43
41.43
41.43
41.43
1700
42.71
42.71
42.71
42.71
42.71
42.71
42.71
42.71
42.71
42.71
42.71
1800
43.94
43.94
43.94
43.94
43.94
43.94
43.94
43.94
43.94
43.94
43.94
1900
45.15
45.15
45.15
45.15
45.15
45.15
45.15
45.15
45.15
45.15
45.15
2000
46.32
46.32
46.32
46.32
46.32
46.32
46.32
46.32
46.32
46.32
46.32
Why hit food is bad
"You have to spend 10 seconds to apply it, you have to fish it and you cant use the feast."
4pT8 doesn't take Gift of Nature, Improved Rejuvenation and Genesis into account. This results in 25% healing loss, compared to if it would just do a instant rejuv.
Yes, one could say that this isn't a hot and thus no hot bonus (Empowered Rejuv seems to work though) and it's not a spell and thus no spell bonus, but if you look at mechanics of other sets/glyphs/bonuses - they all work the way common sense suggests them to work - with full potential.
Glyph of Rejuvenation, for example, isn't a spell either, yet it benefits from GoN.
I was really hoping it was a bug and Blizzard would fix it in the next patch, but.. not a word from them.
4pT8 doesn't take Gift of Nature, Improved Rejuvenation and Genesis into account. This results in 25% healing loss, compared to if it would just do a instant rejuv.
Yes, one could say that this isn't a hot and thus no hot bonus (Empowered Rejuv seems to work though) and it's not a spell and thus no spell bonus, but if you look at mechanics of other sets/glyphs/bonuses - they all work the way common sense suggests them to work - with full potential.
Glyph of Rejuvenation, for example, isn't a spell either, yet it benefits from GoN.
I was really hoping it was a bug and Blizzard would fix it in the next patch, but.. not a word from them.
Well I wish that it would follow consistently either of the common sense rules:
1. treat it like a hot tick and let it benefit from everything normal hot ticks do,
2. treat it like a direct heal and let it benefit from everything normal direct heals do (including crit *ahem*).
4pT8 doesn't take Gift of Nature, Improved Rejuvenation and Genesis into account. This results in 25% healing loss, compared to if it would just do a instant rejuv.
Yes, one could say that this isn't a hot and thus no hot bonus (Empowered Rejuv seems to work though) and it's not a spell and thus no spell bonus, but if you look at mechanics of other sets/glyphs/bonuses - they all work the way common sense suggests them to work - with full potential.
Glyph of Rejuvenation, for example, isn't a spell either, yet it benefits from GoN.
I was really hoping it was a bug and Blizzard would fix it in the next patch, but.. not a word from them.
The way RJ works: (338+SP*0.376*1.2)*1.04*1.06*1.3 - [please note the coefficient might be very slightly off]
The former part (in brackets) is the actual spell itself and the parts outside of the bracket are the talent modifications we gain to our healing done.
Empowered Rejuvenation is within the brackets (the *1.2) so is part of the base spell which is why it (by your assumption here) works for the set bonus while those outside do not.
Once I get the 4 part bonus myself I can test it and confirm what does and does not work.
It was already calculated and tested Restoration Itemization and down from this post (*Note that my calculations are off, there's a post below with better)
My main question is if other people concider this a bug or take it as granted? Usually when something this major bugs out (25-30% healing potential loss from arguably the best set bonus for resto ever made is a huge bug in my view), there's an uproar, discussion, QQ, bug reports, etc and Blizzard finds out about it realy fast. And with this - nothing? How come?
Assuming the 4pc T8 bonus ends up being modified to heal for the same amount as a Rejuvenation tick (I doubt it'll ever proc the glyph, although that would be nice): do people think its worthwhile when compared to the option of wearing ilvl 239 loot?
I think it's hard to say X is always better than Y for all situations. From doing some hardmodes, I've found that I vary my gear depending on the fight - my glyphs as well. XT hardmode (on 10) required that I reglyph to include Rejuv, where as on most fights I find the extra healing it gives to be generally worthless. But during Tantrum when every extra bit helps, the 70k or so that it did during that time felt like it was very worthwhile. Same would go to the 4 piece bonus - there are several fights that the instant rejuv could be a lifesaving measure - but if you're not finding the raid to be near death throughout an encounter (or just a part of an encounter), whatever combination gives you the most spell power (presuming your longevity is not in question) is the better choice. Sometimes the important thing is "how much healing can I do RIGHT NOW" and other times the important thing is "how much healing can I do over the course of this fight?".
The short end is whatever works for you/your guild/the mechanics of the fight is the best choice for you at that time. Things really aren't as cut and dry as they used to be.
<Nite_Moogle> i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone
Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes.
[R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday
Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.
The currently best known (Algalon loot is still missing but..) offset piece to take is this chest because quite honestly it is perfectly itemized in almost every way for us. It also has the benefit of taking away one of the critical strike pieces in favor of haste whereas using the gloves would be a critical strike for critical strike trade.
Besides that, I would prefer Illustration over Sif's Remembrance for throughput and Spark of Hope over it for regen. And thank you for listing that idol, it gave me a good morning laugh!
The 3 trinkets that I would prefer to use are [Illustration of the Dragon Soul], [Pandora's Plea], and [Spark of Hope]. Pandora's is a great compromise between mana regen and thoroughput, where IDS is the best choice for raw thoroughput, and Spark is the best choice for raw efficiency.
I am using rough estimates for stat values based on my own playstyle and typical raid role, where I generally keep hots on the tank(s) and raid heal. Crit and haste are largely worthless as I very rarely hardcast anything other than regrowth, and I have still not gone out of mana yet so value thoroughput much more than efficiency. My Lootrank
We have received many questions about how the proc works on Val’anyr, the Hammer of the Ancient Kings. While we originally intended for this effect to be a mystery, we realize that guilds now know what the tooltip on the proc says without necessarily knowing the details on how it works. This leads to situations where a healer may not know if assembling the hammer is worth it for them (hint: it is), and perhaps even worse, a misinformed leader may not think you deserve the hammer (hint: you do).
Players also wonder if the proc makes the item deserving of its legendary status given that the stat allocation is normal for items of its item level (Hint: it does).
The effect reads “Your healing spells have a chance to cause Blessing of Ancient Kings for 15 seconds allowing your heals to shield the target absorbing damage equal to 15% of the amount healed.”
The way this works is that when the proc happens (which is a 10% chance whenever a hot or direct spell heals, with a 45 sec internal cooldown) you gain a buff (the Blessing) on yourself. Now all of your heals for the next 15 sec cause an 8 sec damage shield. The shield stacks with itself. It includes healing done by subsequent ticks of existing hots on the target. Note that the spell has to actually heal, so hots ticking on a fully-healed target cannot cause the proc. However the shield is based on the size of the heal itself, not the amount healed – i.e. 100% overhealing will not proc the Blessing on the healer, but the shield itself includes overhealing once the Blessing is active. The shield can grow to a maximum size of 20,000 damage absorbed.
Example 1: A paladin casts Holy Light for 10K on the tank, which partially heals her. The Blessing procs, so the paladin’s Holy Light immediately causes a shield on the tank which will now absorb 1500 damage. The tank dodges the next two hits, so no damage is absorbed. The paladin then casts another heal for 8K, but only heals the tank for 600 before she is at full health. The shield is now at 2700 damage absorbed (1500 + 1200) for 8 sec.
Example 2: A druid casts Rejuv on the tank, healing her. The Blessing procs on the druid on the second tick. A shield is applied to the tank which absorbs 15% of the amount healed by that tick and each remaining tick of the Rejuv. If the druid also gets Lifebloom and Regrowth on the tank while the Blessing is up, then those ticks also contribute to the shield. If the shield goes down because the 8 sec duration expires or it absorbs that much damage, it can go up again as long as the Blessing lasts, which is 15 sec.
It appears, to me at least, that this effect is pretty strong for druids. It doesn't seem to favor paladins any more than a druid, in my opinion.
Some preliminary calculations:
Using this formula, I compute that the proc will have 27% uptime assuming an average 1.1 seconds between casts. Thus 27% of the time healing is increased by 15%, or an average ~4% increase in overall healing. Who cares about the stats, that's a huge upgrade.
I think the only downside to having a druid use it would be the internal cooldown on the blessing. As a druid, unless you are purely main tank healing you most likely have HoTs running on a couple targets, the fear would be the sheild would proc on a target that doesnt gain much benifit from it (aka some random dps).
Reading it again though, it could be that any heal to any target will cause a sheild so long as the caster has the blessing of ancient kings buff; if that is the case then in the hands of a raid healing druid this would be invaluable.
"Now all of your heals for the next 15 sec cause an 8 sec damage shield." This makes me think the second idea is more accurate. Sounds interesting.
It is still unclear if a full overheal tick will provide a shield once the proc is active however.
"But once the blessing is active, then all of your healing spells will contribute to the bubble even if they do no actual healing. "
You can understand the requirement for a non-overhealing spell to cause the proc but after the mechanics of hots have been in place for so long there is nothing to show that they will work differently now for when the proc is active.
Reading it again though, it could be that any heal to any target will cause a sheild so long as the caster has the blessing of ancient kings buff; if that is the case then in the hands of a raid healing druid this would be invaluable.
Yeah, that's how I read it. It really depends on the fight. If there is a lot of raid damage and the thing procs when you have a third to a half of the raid hot'd, that could add up to a lot of extra damage prevention because it will work off of heals cast before the proc occurs. The only real question I have is if when the shield is based off of total healing including overhealing, does this include full overheal HoT ticks? I'm hoping it does, because that would really euthanize the "lol give it to ur pallies" junk floating around. I have high hopes, because it does seem like they've put in some new tech to get this proc to work.
04/28/09, 7:39 PM
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