Kemi

Edit: Moved to the Resto (PvE) Healing Discussion thread at Allinone's suggestion.

new home of this post

Pocket summary: it's better to three-stack and then bloom than to one-stack.

 

sivart33

ya now i understand, thank you i guess i was very mistaken on this mace. I guess is ill go back to just reading this forum other then posting.


To comment on the post above me: like i said its personal, and if you are nourish spamming it does not benefit you anymore to stack anymore lifeblooms, i understand if you are rolling hots.

 

Allinone

@ sivart33

If you are Nourish spamming a tank and allowing it to stack up to 3, the effective healing lifebloom can do will be doubled on average compared to casting 1 and letting it bloom (See Kemi's Post). While this represents only a mild overall increase in the total healing done, there really is no reason mathematically from a mana regen stance to letting the stack fall off before it reaches 3. It will do more healing. This isnt a personal choice, its a simple fact that stacking up to 3 will lead to higher HPS at no additional mana cost. I take it back, it is a personal choice. People choose to do thing inefficiently all the time. In a nourish spamming situation is it going to make a huge difference in heals? No. But I ask you this, if I were to offer you a free extra 400-500 HPS, would you take it?

If you are raid healing, there are very few scenario's where LB would be the heal of choice, Rejuvenation and Regrowth are better suited for a majority of situations, setting up a Nourish spam with lifebloom on anything other than a tank doesnt make much sense. As far as the mana return, you get full mana return back up until 3 stacks, after that you are making it more expensive. I.e. it is the same cost per cast to make a 3 stack and have it bloom as it would be to cast 1 and let it bloom. Refreshing a 3 stack jumps the cost dramatically.

However, this conversation would be better suited in the PvE Healing Discussions, and not the Itemization thread.

 

sheaebay

I put this together earlier and wanted to see what you all thought about it, whether good or bad. It's not the total best in slot gear but all the gear is very attainable at my guilds current progression. No 25 man hard mode loot is included. Anyway, any replies would be appreciated. Thank you!

chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner

 

goodolarchie

That's a fine set if you don't have access to 239's. You might consider one of the craftable 2-socket boots, and Lady Maye's ring off Council 10. Also an IDS in leiu of Sif's if you're looking for more throughput.

 

Fiarce

Curious to know if our respective lootrank values have wavered any.

Have been using this:

Loot Rank for WotLK

Seemed to be the most reasonable scaling.

Any thoughts or changes the druid community should be making fellas?

Edit: Also, I highly doubt I will have access to 239 items in my guild for a while, with that in mind, has anyone figured out of non-set BIS is > 4piece? Obviously this BIS ignoring hard-mode encounters.

I want to save myself a trip to the chalkboard if it's been decided already.

 

Allinone

Funny thing that you should ask. I sat down yesterday to see how much things have changed for us. A few changes such as Imp MotW adding 2% to all stats, as well as the up coming changes to innervate have changed some values slightly, although nothing is ground shattereing

Assumptions:
Blessing of Kings (10% Bonus to All Stats)
Living Spirit (15% Bonus to Spirit)
Improved Tree of Life (15% of All Spirit Converted to Spell Power)
Ember Skyflare Diamond Meta Gem (2% Bonus to Int)
8 Minute Fight (Shorter fights put more weight to Int)
25% of heals cast can crit (Debatable, based on play style. More direct heals will lead to higher crit and slightly higher Int ratings)
80% Uptime on Replenish (A better assumption than 100%, but I wont swear by this as accurate either)
No Time spent outside the 5 Second Rule (Not entirely true, but druids should gear more for this case, then planning to take mana breaks during boss fights)
1300 Int/Spirit (A level that should be able to be achieved raid buffed at the higher ends of gear)
Improved Mark of the Wild (2% to all stats)

Mana Regen Stats:
Int: .5228 (.1788 from Mana Pool, .1724 from Spirit based mp5, .1716 from Replenish)
Spirit: .3891
Mp5: 1

Throughput Stats:
Spell Power: .8
Haste: .12
Crit: .056
Spirit: .1548
Int: .0116

Optional Stats:
Int (Mana Tide): .0429 (.0500 glyphed)

Totals:
Int: .5228 (.5658, Mana Tide – No Glyph)
Spirit: .5439
Mp5: 1
Spell Power: .8
Haste: .12
Crit: .056

Loot Rankings, 1300/1300 5/10/09, assuming you are in a group with a Resto Shaman who can drop the mana tide totem.

 

cuddlekin

Take the prismatic out of the helm and put it in the belt to replace the yellow. I would personally use Leggings of the Lifetender and the Conqueror's Nightsong Goves(more combined haste and crit). And as said before, crafted cloth boots(Spellslinger's Slippers) or leather boots(Boots of Wintery Endurance), Lady Maye's Sapphire Ring, and IDS. Unsullied Cuffs are better than the Broodmother if you want to count T7 items. Also a purified or runed in the boots if you do use those boots.

 

red

What has happened so that people are choosing [Ember Skyflare Diamond] over [Insightful Earthsiege Diamond]? The last time I saw the math Insighful was always the best meta, and should be the last regen option you exchange for throughput. Are people really doing that well on mana in Ulduar?

 

Allinone

Actually, I was thinking along the same lines as i typed out my last post. What info is available on the Insightful proc? I'd like to do some number crunching on the subject (or, if you can link me a discussion on the gem, i'd like to read what others have found out.)

Even at 1300 Int, the 2% is only worth 26 Int, which is only 5 more Int than the Insightful has. I'm going to assume that the proc to restore mana is worth more than that. I havent struggled with mana regen much post 3.1, so I personally have gone with the +25 SP from the Ember.

 

ttyl

Wowhead comments seemed to agree that the Insightful proc is 600 mana with a 5% chance to proc and a 15 second ICD.
Yeah, this has been true for awhile. Allinone: I took a quick look at your armory and you could definitely benefit from changing metas. If you really miss the 25 spellpower, then drop some regen gems for an overall increase.

 

cuddlekin

I fixed my suggestion post. I didn't ever look into how much the insightful gives and will probably be switching metas now. And to answer your question I personally am not having any mana issues. On hard modes I usually get hymn of hope and mana tide totem though.

 

MystRayne

Please excuse my Question on Crit for resto druids - pre-3.1 I was told that Crit was not important for resto druids, how has this changed, because I still do not notice any decent crits, since upping my crit a bit more.

I am looking to replace [Boots of Septic Wounds] with [Boots of the Escaped Captive] - and worry that losing nearly 1% of crit is not worth the Haste gain, especially as I also would lose health.

 

Kawari

I could be wrong - but my thoughts on a greater use of crit now, is because we lost the 50% crit chance to regrowth (down to 25% now), but instead gained 25% crit chance to nourish - so combining both these spells and the change to natures grace (20% casting speed for 3s, as aposed to 0.5s off your next cast) means you can potentially have a constant uptime of 20% haste by stacking more crit if you're spamming regrowth and nourish.

Its not really my playstyle for raid healing now I have the T8.5 x 4 set bonus - but its a very appealing option for a lot of druids who value nourish.

 

red

Honestly I'd go with [Rainey's Chewed Boots], from emblems of valor. Between the two you linked though, Septic Wounds are better. While haste may generally be preferable to crit, the much more important considerations are spell power / int / spirit. Both boots are 213, but Escaped Captive use much more of their item budget on the "bad" stat, and Septic even has a gem slot in which you can put a spell power gem.

 

Zoltair

SEEKING INDIVIDUAL WITH IN GAME ACCESS (Servers down here) TO CONFIRM OR DENY THE FOLLOWING:

The armory tooltips are indicating that the value of Haste Rating to Percentage conversion is no longer 32.79 for druids. I have checked all druids of all specs and this appears to be the case. Other classes still appear to be 32.79=1% Haste.

I am finding that for druids ~25.22 Haste Rating = 1%.

Please confirm or deny this in game for me to ensure it is not an armory tooltip error. This would be a pretty significant Haste Buff for druids if it is correct.

 

Kawari

As it stands I have (more than I know what to do with really): 525 haste = 16.01%

Which gives a ratio of 32.81 to 1% - which would make it pretty much the same as other classes.

 

Paininabox

Last I checked, armory is bugged. I noticed that the haste calculation was off, so I checked it in-game and concluded it was just the armory. In-game, it's the same as it has always been.

Level 80 Restoration Druid Spreadsheet here.
(v1.41)

 

Zoltair

Had a feeling it was just an armory tooltip error. It shows your 525=20.81%.

Sorry for the alarm. Couldn't get in game to confirm so instead of waiting around I figured I'd just ask another.

Thanks for the speedy clarification.

 

Fallenangel

Conversion of haste rating to melee-haste-% was buffed in 3.1. So you'll get different results, %-wise, if you look at the melee and the spell tabs on your character.
The buff was 30% extra haste, so for instance:
525 rating = 16.01% spell haste = 20.81% (=16.01*1.3) melee haste.
Looks like the armory tooltip is applying the melee formula to spell haste as well.

 

korndog22

Hello i tend to come here for most of my definitive answers.This is my first time posting here so sorry if my question seems noobish.

I was wondering,with the changes to spirit based regen nerfed previously ,should I be geming for mp5 and sp over spirit.I don't seem to ever have a big issue with my mana regen and find myself trying to push myself to bigger heals over worrying about spirit.So is there a certain balance of mp5 and spirit to be had or does spirit still trump mp5 for us druids.Was considering taking 4 pieces of my gear where i have 16 spirit and 8 spirit -8 intel gems and replacing them with the 9sp/3mp5 gems or even the 19 sp gems.Can any of you mathmaticians do a breakdown for me or anyone give me some insight as to what is more beneficial.

P.S. I do consider myself a fairly good Resto Druid,just not great with the math ,i keep a pretty basic game plan when it comes to gear and such.But this has been weighing on me the last couple days especially with the innervate change coming.

 

avanlee

Has anyone else considered using [Furious Gladiator's Light Staff] for pve healing? For someone like me where Hodir's staff and the legendary mace seem a ways off this should be pretty well as good as it gets. Comparing it to even Hodir's staff there's less than 20 points difference using lootrank values in this thread, since crit is so poor for us. An extra ~1k health (buffed) never hurt anyone either.

 

red

At all reasonable gear levels, spirit still provides more mp5 than mp5 does, relative to their budget costs. Continue gemming for spirit over mp5 when you need a blue gem. Gemming [Runed Scarlet Ruby] in blue slots is a fine option too if the socket bonus isn't spell power and you don't need the regen.

 

Cathiecj

Although i think haste is still more important than crit. You should still consider crit. When I get an almost 24K crit on my LB heal, I say "Give me more crit". But that is after i get enough haste to have my GCD at 1 sec on my HoT spells.

 

Jurik

Crit is still not important for resto druids. In fact, I think the value of crit has gone down. My reasoning is thus: in 3.0, we cast Regrowth a lot and took advantage of the extremely high crit chance and synergy Nature's Grace to pump out high HPS, so crit was a half-decent stat to stack after reaching sufficient levels of haste.

In 3.1, we mostly avoid casting Regrowth. Furthermore, the way Nature's Grace overclocked the Improved/Glyphed Regrowth spam build has been significantly reduced. We're no longer chaining crits for maximum throughput. Instead, we're maintaining HoTs to maximize Nourish bonuses, and leaning on Rejuvenation a lot more especially with our extremely potent tier-8 4 piece bonus and the conditions in Ulduar. Given this paradigm shift, I think most trees would agree that the share of effective healing done by HoTs that can't crit has gone up, and thus the value of crit has gone down.

For this reason, once my gear brought me over the haste cap, instead of looking at gear that gave me crit, I've now been looking for similarly itemized gear that gives less haste while keeping me over the soft-cap. To give a concrete example, [Leggings of Lost Love] narrowly edge out [Leggings of the Lifetender] because they have less budget points spent on haste in return for more on spirit. Though, you may have to sweet talk your cloth-wearing mates to obtain this, as the leather is substantially similar.