Firstly, haste sources are multiplicative with each other, i.e. 15% haste from haste rating and 5% haste from the wrath totem go like so:

1.15*1.05= 1.21 or 21%.

The cast time, in this case the GCD, is divided by the decimal form of the percent:

1.5/1.21= 1.24s GCD

If you're unsure of whether something has been discussed, it's probably better to search first. Reading all twenty some pages isn't necessary.

Yep, just realized that. Any way you put it though, the numbers on the first page are incorrect. The correct equation for haste is:

New Casting Time = (Base Casting Time)/(1 + (% Spell Haste / 100))

So here we go again:

Wrath of Air Totem - 1.05
Improved Moonkin Aura - 1.03
Gift of The Earthmother - 1.2

1.5 x 1.3 x 1.2 = 1.2978

1.5 / 1.2978 = 1.1558

Therefore you would need 15.58% haste or 511 haste rating to reach a 1.0 second global cooldown.

I'll point you here

GoTEM Mechanics Explained

which is the same link Nofair has in the OP. You are still calculating the 20% reduction as a 20% haste buff. It appears that the 20% of GoTEM gets applied after all other haste buffs, so instead of a .3 reduction, it ends up being less. In the post I linked, with 336 haste rating and 3/3 CF, GoTEM only subtracted 0.2641940, which is less than the simple .3 that would be expected from a 20% reduction.

Also, just a small typo in your calculation, you dropped a few 0's:

You had:
1.5 x 1.3 x 1.2 = 1.2987, which is wrong, but
1.2 x 1.05 x 1.03 = 1.2987. However, since GoTEM isnt the same as a 20% haste buff

1.05 x 1.03 = 1.0815

Try running your formula's again, this time with the correct numbers and calculating the 20% cast time reduction last, instead of off the 1.5. That should bring your numbers a bit closer. This calculation was hammered out with many tests when Wrath was launched, i'd be surprised it you could poke holes in its armor.

Haste and GCD is calculated as not

The correct formula is therefore

Edit: Oh there was another page. Funny how it's still full of people who cant figure out how percentages work or that the order is irrelevant.

Am I crazy, or isn't wearing the Moonkin T8.5 chest a good idea for your offset piece? Basically trading tons of crit for tons of haste.

I've been wearing [Malleable Steelweave Mantle] as my off-piece because I only have 8.10 T8 shoulders, but I'm thinking about using the Moonkin chest instead.

Fir reference: [Conqueror's Nightsong Vestments], [Conqueror's Nightsong Robe], [Valorous Nightsong Spaulders]

Yes, Moonkin chest is better then Resto chest, and if you dont have access to other itens like

[Vestments of the Blind Denizen]
[Zodiac Leggings]

the t8 moonkin chest is the best option.

The Moonkin chest is easily the largest haste gain of those options though. Until some hard mode gear drops in other slots, I don't think there is a better option than the moonkin chest (assuming you need the haste at all). For me it's great, because we don't have a Ret or Moonkin in most raids.

Currently sitting at 17% haste unbuffed , which I believe is over what I need with Wrath of Air totem, but covers me perfectly if I get out of range or the shaman dies, etc.

Yes - but that assumes that you get your hands on 4 other pieces that are preferably ilvl 226 (which means you'll have to roll on gloves, shoulders and legs). You can get the chest for emblems. I got 541 haste without the moonkin chest. Our rogues and mages want the gloves tokens so I'm generally passing on those.

Allinone briefly mentioned the upcoming 25% buff to MP5 items in the Healing Discussion thread, but it's probably beneficial to discuss it more in depth in this thread.

The items of note that this buff will impact are some of your offset pieces (neck, cloak, rings):

Neck:
[Charm of Meticulous Timing]
[Freya's Choker of Warding]
[Life-Binder's Locket]

Cloak:
[Shroud of Alteration]

Rings:
[Fire Orchid Signet]
[Starshine Circle]
[Starshine Signet]


---


The question is, how will this affect your gearing preferences? Will you always value the comparable spirit items in those slots higher because of the SP you gain from the spirit, or has this changed your way of thinking about spirit vs. mp5?

Also note that this 25% buff is coming alongside the buff to Empowered Touch, so depending on your speccing preferences, you may be aiming for ~540 haste so you can go 4/5 GotE and gain an extra point to buff your Nourish/HT.

I use [Charm of Meticulous Timing] but I will always prefer an Int/Spirit item over an Int/MP5 of equivalent SP. I focus primarily on maximizing my SP (with the exception of using an IES since the mana return is useful on the more intense hard mode fights) and only take mp5 pieces if it's a net SP gain. So unless they change the mechanics around regen to make mp5 absolutely necessary, I will continue to focus on SP/Spirit in 3.2.

I looked at the two loot rankings (pre/post changes) to reflect how we view items now, and how we'll view items when 3.2 hits.

Current Loot Rankings
3.2 Adjusted Loot Rankings

A few items jockey position.

Neck (Current):
[Sapphire Amulet of Renewal]
[Charm of Meticulous Timing]
[Watchful Eye]
[Freya's Choker of Warding]
[Evoker's Charm]

Neck (3.2 Changes)
[Charm of Meticulous Timing]
[Sapphire Amulet of Renewal]
[Watchful Eye]
[Freya's Choker of Warding]
[Pendant of the Somber Witness]

Cloak (Current):
[Sunglimmer Cloak]
[Drape of the Sullen Goddess]
[Sunglimmer Drape]
[Shroud of Alteration]
[Shawl of Haunted Memories]

Cloak (3.2):
[Sunglimmer Cloak]
[Drape of the Sullen Goddess]
[Shroud of Alteration]
[Sunglimmer Drape]
[Shawl of Haunted Memories]

Rings (Current):
[Conductive Seal]
[Starshine Circle]
[Fire Orchid Signet]
[Signet of Soft Lament]
[Starshine Signet]

Rings (3.2)
[Conductive Seal]
[Starshine Circle]
[Fire Orchid Signet]
[Sanity's Bond]
[Starshine Signet]

As you can see, only a few items in the top 5 for each catagory actually change places. To a large degree our gearing will remain unchanged. For Gem selections, our current suggested choices, [Runed Scarlet Ruby], [Luminous Monarch Topaz], [Purified Twilight Opal], will remain the same. Purified will still beat out the SP/mp5 gem, it just wont beat it by such a wide margin.

On a different note, it might be getting closer to the time where we do start weighting SP more favorably against mp5 (I currently still use a 1 - .8 ratio). Many druids do not have a problem with regeneration in current content. A 1 mp5 - .9 or 1.0 might be more reasonable in the upcoming expansion and the gearing upgrades it would bring. This will further tip the scales to favoring spirit over mp5. All this is speculation of course.

Blizzard is also nerfing Int slightly (through Replenishment changes) but as I posted on the PvE healing discussion board, this doesn't matter nearly as much to us as it would a Paladin or Resto Shaman, Replenishment only accounts for roughly 1/3 of the value that Int provides. (The other two thirds are an increased mana pool and Ints contributions to our Spirit based regen), but this is getting off of the topic at hand. I've already factored in the changes in int to the listing above.

The watchful eye linked there is actually an offhand. I'm sure he means the identically-named neckpiece that drops off of Iron Council 10-man hard mode.

[Watchful Eye]

How are we feeling about the Tier 9 set bonuses? As it stands now, I like the tier 8 set bonus much more. I'm not sure it would be worth loosing the bonuses. What are your opinions on this? Although, I am going to wait until the actual patch to make my decision, incase they change anything.

Ok as a druid I know the situation which to heal and with what spell. But when it come to stats I know the sp is above all but wat number does your haste have to be at to be benefical when casting a clutch nourish at times? My haste has always been above 300 now that I have my 5 piece t8/t8.5, I wanted to drop the shoulder and try to get the shoulders from H EOE the BIS before Ulduar patch. When I made the swap I lost a ton of haste but gain some crit. Now that being said I went a head and re gemmed all gems and got my MP5 to 600 with my haste at 355 but my sp fell to 2077 in cow form unbuffed. What should I do in this case it quite frustrating cause I wanna have the maximum out put but also having longevity of mana throughout the fight. I had no way to raise my haste at all other than using the prismatic gems i placed 2 in to get the number i have atm. Basiclly would having your haste under 250 as a resto druid be a bad thing and if so wat are the pro and cons?

Thanks

Buck

#1 Haste is extremely beneficial until the softcap of 359. At that point, with proper raid buffs, you are capped at a 1 second GCD. Past that haste is still a nice stat for things such as clutch nourishes as you put it, but SP is more beneficial. That said, do not gem for haste. The cons are obvious, slower GCD means slower rejuves and wild growths means less coverage of the raid in an average rotation and overall less throughput.

#2 That meta you are using is terrible. The 21 int / chance to restore mana on cast meta is by far superior. I do not know the exact number but between the MP5 gained from replenishment from the int, and the 600 mana you will get occasionally it becomes far superior in mana return (in my experience, druids benefit more from this meta than any other class, purely because we are constantly chain casting 1 second instant cast spells throughout an entire fight). I believe it adds up to something like 5000 mana back just from the mana restore.

#3 Are you having mana issues in fights? I'll assume from the initiative you took to regem in favor of MP5 that you are finding mana tight on some fights. Honestly the biggest thing I can say is don't worry about gearing/gemming for it, but instead get your hands on a Spark of Hope. The mana savings from a spark is insane, it really is. Extremely simple math suggest you save 8k+-10k+ mana on a fight from that trinket alone. At first I was only going to use it for certain fights when I got it, but I find that there is no other trinket I would rather fill the spot with. Two-healing 10 man hardmodes or five-healing 25m hardmodes, the extra mana you find yourself with is amazing to have. You may also want to change out your cloak with something like Shroud of Alteration.

Okay, so I have a question. I keep seeing all this stuff about "gear haste", "get haste capped" etc. Well, me and another druid in my guild decided to put something to the test. She built a set with haste, I built a set based on crit.

On IC hardmode, I usually end up doing between 7k-8.2k HPS according to Recount. Yes, I know Recount isn't accurate...the World of Logs parses are showing it as a barely over 6k HPS effectively. Her's are usually around 6.2-6.8k on Recount and about 4.8k-ish on World of Logs.

My Stats:

1012 Int
1273 Spirit
2148 bonus healing with no buffs in caster form (having to pull info from Armory since I'm at work)
19.09% crit
195/7.73% haste
725 MP5 OoC/386 IC
18.4k mana pool
18.4k health

Her stats

1038 Int
1208 Spirit
2143 bonus healing no buffs in caster form
14.83% crit
393/15.58% haste
672 MP5 OoC/347 IC
18.8k mana pool
18k health

______________________________________________

Now, we both have the 4 piece Conq bonus. She's not a bad healer at all, she's actually pretty good. But, I keep seeing all this "gear haste" crap, and I'm putting up higher numbers with less of it. And no, I'm not padding meters or spamming Nourish. I hate that spell TBH and only use it if I'm tank healing, otherwise my HoTs work just fine. Neither of us have mana issues, even on the hard modes. Even Vezax hard mode, I come out with ~90% mana when Animus spawns and am still 2 or 3 on the charts. <3 those OoC procs and mid-combat idol swapping

But anyways, so T9 4-piece is a chance for critting Rejuvs, and Nourish is getting a buff. Is this Blizzard trying to make us standing casters by trying to make a casting spell, something we're not necessarily used to (besides Regrowth of course), a little more interesting by buffing the hell out of it and upping what crit is for us? I'm thinking I should be gearing crit right now because of the T9 4-piece bonus. Haste just doesn't seem like an issue to me. I put out my numbers, and do just fine.

So, tl;dr - is haste really still worth it to break my back over, and why am I outhealing someone with 200 more haste than me we basically have the same raid healing assignments?

EDIT: yeah, yeah...I saw the Sticky but I still posted my stats because it's easier than clicking my armory under my username and tabbing back and forth :P

@Sicosis

Your post contains no 'constants'. Not to mention you have no WoL or WMO parses to investigate the reasoning between the EHPS. You and the other healer are too different people fighting an encounter that is like a snowflake... no two encounters are identical. Maybe the timing of your blooming LB's is better causing more heals rather then Overhealing, maybe you happen to have more rejuv's on the melee during static disruptions, maybe you are Swiftmending on more cooldowns or more effectively, maybe your WG consistently hit more targets on use, maybe a priests PoH was hitting more of your friends targets reducing the amount Rejuv heals. My point is that your 'test' has far too many variables to discuss.

Your friend, whether he/she does so or not, mathematically has the ability to cast more spells in the same period of time then you. This is not really debatable (besides latency differential). On IC Hard mode, something tells me you are not using very many critable spells anyways, so what your crit rating is at seems mostly negligable to me.

After the soft cap for your raid composition (or close to it at least), it would obviously be beneficial to have more crit with this set bonus.

Understandable, I'll put some WoL parses up then.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis <-- The other druid isn't in that particular attempt because she either wasn't in the guild yet, or wasn't online. Forgot the reason. But I found a parse of her on that fight without me in there. The parses I have with both of us in there are medium-mode kills.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis <-- There's a parse with her in it.


Just letting you know this up front, I'm not here to get in some pissing contest or flex an e-peen...I'm just questioning haste vs crit come 3.2. And those healing differences between me and her are the same for just about every encounter depending on if we're both on raid, or one of is on the tank while the other is on raid, etc. etc.

Trust me, this I know lol. Again, not trying to debate it, I'm wondering crit vs haste in 3.2...I don't really care about 3.1 right now.

Sicosis,

Since you are not at the soft-cap for Haste, you cannot be casting Rejuv/WG as efficiently as you should. So no, your HoTs don't work just fine because you aren't able to cast as many as you could by increasing your haste rating. Crit does not help these spells either. For the IC hard-mode fight, this is all I do. Rejuv and WG spam on cooldown. When I am the only resto druid, I can easily reach 9500 hps consistently. When we have done it with 2 Resto Druids we both get in the 6k to 7k range because more of our heals get cut off by eachother.

What I noticed however is that the other primary Resto Druid in our raids is very skilled for sure, he out-gears me and probably has faster reaction times. Unfortunately his computer drops to nearly 1fps in this fight, and a bunch of other hard-modes. So regardless of his skill, the computer hardware holds him back at times.

So in regards to your question, I think it is rather easy to hit the soft-cap for haste in 25man raiding. If you think it is hard, you need to spend a little time analyzing gear choices. Go back to IC Steelbreaker with the proper soft-cap, focus on Rejuv/WG spam, win the meter game. :P



In 3.2 my opinion is that staying a soft-cap for Haste is still my #1 goal, then focus stats into spell power and crit rating. Regen stat choices may or may not need tweaking with the loss of the Rejuv idol, time will tell.

Sicosis,

Your log shows over 90 Rj ticks/minute. Her log shows less than 60 Rj ticks/minute.

Crits were about 5% of your total heals. The bulk of the HPS difference between the logs is not due to crit.

Right, I understand that too, like I said, I was testing a different sort of gear for the questioning of the critable Rejuvs for 3.2 and seeing how well I could still heal compared to a druid with haste. And TBH, I don't think I do too bad either.
I outgear the other healer just by a couple pieces, but I don't know about her FPS. She never complains about it, so I don't think that's an issue either. No offense though.

I have the gear for the haste soft cap, I just am not using it at the moment. It's all been banked for my little test. And I still win the meter game with an assload of crit and sub 200 haste :P And nah, it's not hard to hit the haste cap lol.

Explain that one?

/sigh

Again.....looking at 3.2. Not current boring ass 3.1 :P Critting Rejuvs just looks sexy to me. THAT is why I'm questioning crit and that is why I was testing something.