Elitist Jerks Restoration Itemization

 04/12/09, 10:28 PM #406 uliko Piston Honda   Feidan Night Elf Druid   Kor'gall (EU) $\frac{0,6}{35,8769}*\sqrt{int}*spi$ Decently accurate formula, change 0,6 to 1 for pre-3.1 stats. Why hit food is bad "You have to spend 10 seconds to apply it, you have to fish it and you cant use the feast."
 04/16/09, 6:49 PM #407 Inorrri Von Kaiser     Inory Night Elf Druid   Silvermoon (EU) Anybody else noticed how badly the equip bonus on legendary is itemized for resto druids? Say in a guild composition of 3 priests, 2 paladins, 1 resto druid, 1 resto shaman. Say no "legendary for friends" corruption. Any reason why a resto druid can ask for that mace over paladins/priests/shamans? It's not even about breaking the steorotypes like with cloth vs leather, resto druids just won't benefit as much as paladin/priest from it. Last edited by Inorrri : 04/16/09 at 6:58 PM.
 04/16/09, 7:07 PM #408 Paininabox Piston Honda     Paininabox Night Elf Druid   Runetotem Legendaries should not be about min/maxing. Of course, you wouldn't want to give one to a class that only gets 20% of the benefit that another class would (like the rogue that got the legendary bow over a hunter). They should be given to the player that deserves it most through dedication to the guild and being a solid player. If your best healer is a druid, it should go to a druid even if the paladin gains 8% more benefit from the mace or whatever. That said, if Blizzard does their job right, it should be best-in-slot for every healer. I'd also like to point out that we do not know if the mace will have different versions for each healer, which could also mean different equip procs tailored for each healing class. All we know so far is that it's orange and puts shields on people. Frankly, anyone that is making any definitive decisions with such sketchy knowledge is jumping to conclusions. In my personal opinion, if any guild is forbidding their best healer the mace based on a datamined tooltip, they're doing it wrong. Level 80 Restoration Druid Spreadsheet here. (v1.41)
 04/16/09, 7:56 PM #409 Inorrri Von Kaiser     Inory Night Elf Druid   Silvermoon (EU) How do you decide best healer amongst different classes? Healing meters? How do you decide who's the most dedicated? If 3 people never miss a raid, but one of them is in the guild for 9 months and two are for 6, then the first is more dedicated? Anyway, the moral side of oranges is not the point here, it's the bonus itself. "If your best healer is a druid, it should go to a druid even if the paladin gains 8% more benefit from the mace or whatever.", this should not be the case from the start. Stats-wise it should be equal to all classes, so only thing we should actually analyze is the equip bonus, which was already revealed. And knowing Blizzard, I highly doubt they've put extra care to proc mechanic just for druids. Current wording is obviously not favoring druids, so if they took the extra mile to make the druids happy, it's really weird not to mention it. Moreover, I bet it will proc off 1stack lbs and last ticks of wg and such.
04/16/09, 8:42 PM   #410
Paininabox
Piston Honda

Night Elf Druid

Runetotem
 Originally Posted by Inorrri How do you decide best healer amongst different classes? Healing meters? How do you decide who's the most dedicated? If 3 people never miss a raid, but one of them is in the guild for 9 months and two are for 6, then the first is more dedicated? Anyway, the moral side of oranges is not the point here, it's the bonus itself. "If your best healer is a druid, it should go to a druid even if the paladin gains 8% more benefit from the mace or whatever.", this should not be the case from the start. Stats-wise it should be equal to all classes, so only thing we should actually analyze is the equip bonus, which was already revealed. And knowing Blizzard, I highly doubt they've put extra care to proc mechanic just for druids. Current wording is obviously not favoring druids, so if they took the extra mile to make the druids happy, it's really weird not to mention it. Moreover, I bet it will proc off 1stack lbs and last ticks of wg and such.
I'm not going to bother discussing guild politics or subjective and arbitrary concepts of "deserving" the mace more. It's a case-by-case issue. As to "this should not be the case from the start", there's a difference between what should be and what is. Unfortunately some healer is going to be on the low end and another on the high end in terms of how good the mace is per class, due to differing mechanics.

"Stats-wise it should be equal to all classes"
This is a stupid assumption. If there's only one version of the mace, then some healers will not like the stats as much as others, aka spirit versus mp5, haste versus crit etc. If there are multiple versions itemized for each class, then you could just as easily assume that the proc would be different for each class as well.

I don't think you understand what I meant when I said datamined. Nothing was "revealed" officially. In fact, the proc could be entirely different for all we know.

Since you're hellbent on getting an answer, here you go. All healing spells are essentially increased by 15%, as far as we can determine from the tooltip. Thus, whoever is highest on the healing done charts gains the largest increase. Since any healing class can top the charts, with fluctuations based on encounter mechanics, all healing specs are equally favored. There is no hint whatsoever in the tooltip that it only works on direct heals, or that it uses overhealing in the shield value.

"I bet it will proc off 1stack lbs and last ticks of wg and such"
Yeah, I think Blizzard is out to shaft resto druids; they hate us.

Level 80 Restoration Druid Spreadsheet here.
(v1.41)

04/17/09, 10:10 AM   #411
Playered
Soda Popinski

Tauren Druid

Twisting Nether (EU)
 Originally Posted by Inorrri How do you decide best healer amongst different classes? Healing meters? How do you decide who's the most dedicated? If 3 people never miss a raid, but one of them is in the guild for 9 months and two are for 6, then the first is more dedicated? Anyway, the moral side of oranges is not the point here, it's the bonus itself. "If your best healer is a druid, it should go to a druid even if the paladin gains 8% more benefit from the mace or whatever.", this should not be the case from the start. Stats-wise it should be equal to all classes, so only thing we should actually analyze is the equip bonus, which was already revealed. And knowing Blizzard, I highly doubt they've put extra care to proc mechanic just for druids. Current wording is obviously not favoring druids, so if they took the extra mile to make the druids happy, it's really weird not to mention it. Moreover, I bet it will proc off 1stack lbs and last ticks of wg and such.
Look unless there is more than one version of the mace then it will have Int, Stamina and SP of which every item does and is unbiased between any class really, Spirit will not show up unless there are different versions.
You have the equip effect which is logically worse for a Druid due to our strengths and general play style which does not honestly support using big heals that often on targets which would most benefit from the shields - don't take this as me saying it is useless for a Druid but it is less optimal in more than just the effect itself (and we don't even know how it interacts with HoTs or with itself).
You then will either have all or a mix of MP5, Critical Strike and Haste of which the latter two are still rather poor for us and MP5 is MP5.

I highly doubt we will have the perfect Druid stats by which I mean something like 750+ SP as going by typical ilvl/sp relations it should end up around 580-620 and somehow I doubt we will manage to escape having a hefty amount (as in 60+) of either Critical Strike and/or Haste and a large amount of MP5.

We will find out in a month or two how exactly the stats end up on it but due to our natural play style and lack of use from both Critical Strike and Haste the chances of a generic healer mace being tailored to our very fussy standards are low.

Your guild can hand it out carelessly as a reward for the player who deserves it by long standing merits, by who gets the best use out of the effect (which tend to be the key aspects of Legendaries) or by a mixture of both. The majority of Druids who are eyeballing their guilds first mace are most likely thinking in the lines of "no one else deserves it as much as me" and "it's orange /fap /fap /fap" rather than who it will benefit the raid most from and how good it will actually be for us (for what it's worth I passed any rights on our guilds first one).
As much as I would like to have a legendary I would rather have an item better suited to my needs so if there is a mace with equal SP and having Spirit instead of excess ratings and MP5 then I will be perfectly happy with that instead of the legendary one because we can't even really bring looks into the equation due to forms...

In the end it shouldn't really matter who gets it because by the time you get it your guild should be suitably progressed through Ulduar and nothing currently known about it makes it seem like something which could alter your raid balance.

One thing to keep in mind is that as we are the healer most focused on pure SP above all else we are more susceptible to wanting to upgrade over it when higher ilvl weapons become available in 3.2/3.3 with higher SP (if it does not have exceptionally high levels of it) as weapons tend to provide the biggest chunk of SP upgrade.

04/17/09, 10:48 PM   #412
grimtage
Von Kaiser

Night Elf Druid

Dragonblight (EU)
 Originally Posted by Playered You have the equip effect which is logically worse for a Druid due to our strengths
Yeah. But we scale more from the spell power given than any other healy class. If they didn't give a bonus effect to non-druids, then there would be no point in giving it to anyone but druids, since it obviously will have significantly more spell power than the epics. My guess is, Blizzard have made it as much of an upgrade for every class. Of course, those who get to be on the decision for these things will make the same mistake you guys did - assuming that the mace is balanced *without* the equip effect. I, however, believe blizzard will make it balanced *with* the equip effect. (Probably just setting myself up for a fall, but optimism is my thing)

 04/21/09, 3:21 AM #413 Fateblade Glass Joe     Ionx Gnome Mage   Windrunner 4pcT8 Bonus So I was fortunate enough to get the 4 piece bonus this week(Nearly all vanquisher drops in 10). I did limited testing on it but I can say the 4pct8 bonus scales with Spellpower, but can not crit. I tested this by taking off gear and only leaving on the t8 and I can confirm the instant heal portion was much smaller. So heres the skinny on the numbers I was getting. I can reach 3040 healing power with my trinket fully stacked and the largest bonus proc I got was 2173. The proc itself is still called Rejuvenation, and it shows up on WowMeter as an unranked Rejuvenation. Here is a parse of Ignis - the bonus accounted for nearly 10% of my healing, when I was pre-juving the raid Ignis the Furnacemaster I know the community is very anxious about this information and I am more than willing to do any testing that is truly warranted. - After limited testing it would seem the [Glyph of Rejuvenation] does not effect the bonus - So I stripped down to strictly t8 and had a bonus healing of 675, and then tried casting and got a proc of 642. If I then stack 1 proc of IotDS(20 Sp) I would get a proc of 651, and then 661, 670, 678, 688, 696...as the trinket stacked up. So it would seem it scales linearly at about 45% Sp + 300. If I then shift into Tree Form I have 750 bonus healing and a proc of 745, 755, 765, 776, 785... This would suggest a ratio of 55% Sp. (3040 Sp(0.45) + 300) 1.06 tree aura = 1768 which is at the lowest deviation from that parse I linked above. However in practice I was getting ones that were much higher. It would seem I'm missing something. Perhaps theres some Mathletes who'd care to lend a hand in cracking this case. Last edited by Fateblade : 04/21/09 at 5:38 AM.
 04/21/09, 4:47 AM #414 Fallenangel Don Flamenco   Treesa Tauren Druid   Chromaggus (EU) Can you compare the heals you get from the bonus to your normal rejuv ticks and post these figures?
 04/21/09, 5:39 AM #415 Inorrri Von Kaiser     Inory Night Elf Druid   Silvermoon (EU) Let's find out how to calculate Rejuv ticks first. Rejuv coefficient 37.604% (per tick) Rejuv base tick 338 health Empovered Rejuv 20% Genesis 5% ToL 6% Master shapeshifter 4% Improved Rejuv 15% Gift of the Nature 10% Assuming 2500 SP: (338+2500*0.37604)*1.15*1.06*1.04*1.2*1.05*1.1 = 2245 which is roughly what I see when my rejuv ticks at 2450 sp. Assuming 3000 SP: (338+3000*0.37604)*1.15*1.06*1.04*1.2*1.05*1.1 = 2576 which is roughly the average of what we see on your wowmeters report (the 2825 proc might be because of GS or shaman totem or some other temporary buff. The difference between min and max is too big to be something else) Now all that's left is to find out what exactly 4pT8 doesn't take into account. My guess would be Genesis and Empowered Rejuvenation. Would make a bit of sence, since direct instant heal isn't really a hot. (338+3000*0.37604)*1.06*1.04*1.1*1.15 = 2044 A bit too much. Now if we take out Gift of the Nature (which doesn't make any sence at all), it will show: (338+3000*0.37604)*1.06*1.04*1.15 = 1858 which is basically what wowmeters show up. In conclusion: I think 4pT8 is bugged, it should heal for the full amount, rather than taking random bonuses into account. But then again I'm bad at calculating stuff, so it might be off.
04/21/09, 6:19 AM   #416
Glass Joe

Gnome Mage

Windrunner
 Originally Posted by Fallenangel Can you compare the heals you get from the bonus to your normal rejuv ticks and post these figures?
675 Healing power - adding 20sp in increments

proc - Rejuv tic
642 - 835
651 - 847
661 - 859
670 - 870
678 - 882

750 Healing power + ToL aura - adding 20sp in increments

746 - 969
755 - 982
765 - 995
776 - 1008
785 - 1021

 Originally Posted by Inorrri Now if we take out Gift of the Nature (which doesn't make any sence at all)
Maybe since its a bonus, it's not considered a spell. And in that case you're dead on

Last edited by Fateblade : 04/21/09 at 6:52 AM. Reason: Specificity

 04/21/09, 7:05 AM #417 Inorrri Von Kaiser     Inory Night Elf Druid   Silvermoon (EU) Well the easiest way to check this is for you to unspec and check effects of different talents on different sp numbers step-by-step.
04/21/09, 2:32 PM   #418
Erdluf
Great Tiger

Night Elf Druid

Echo Isles
 Originally Posted by Fateblade 675 Healing power - adding 20sp in increments proc - Rejuv tic 642 - 835 651 - 847 661 - 859 670 - 870 678 - 882 750 Healing power + ToL aura - adding 20sp in increments 746 - 969 755 - 982 765 - 995 776 - 1008 785 - 1021 Maybe since its a bonus, it's not considered a spell. And in that case you're dead on
Your numbers are consistent with (remove ToL and MSS when not shifted):

tick = (1690 (base) + 1.88 (coef) * 1.2 (ER) * Spellpower) * (1 + .05 (Genesis) + .15 (IR) + .1 (GoN)) * 1.04 (MSS) * 1.06 (ToL) / 5

4t8 proc = (1690 (base) + 1.88 (coef) * 1.2 (ER) * Spellpower) * 1.04 (MSS) * 1.06 (ToL) / 5

So the proc is not benefitting from Genesis, Improved Rejuvenation, or Gift of Nature. It is benefitting from Empowered Rejuvenation, Master Shapeshifter, and Tree of Life.

 04/21/09, 4:04 PM #419 Inorrri Von Kaiser     Inory Night Elf Druid   Silvermoon (EU) Can somebody from US report this as a bug please? I'm pretty sure it wasn't intended that way.
04/21/09, 8:25 PM   #420
Glass Joe

Tauren Druid

Mug'thol
 Originally Posted by Playered Never socket a 16 Spirit gem (go Purified if you must) and you did a mistake picking the Greatness (Spirit, not Int) trinket but there is not much you can do about that.
I've been reading through these posts for a while and I've seen the results on Rawr favoring Int over Spi, but I'm not quite sure why this is. I've been playing a druid for a while and I've always been under the impression that Spi was much more favorable than Int because it gives us SP and regen.

Why is it bad to socket a +16 gem?
Why is Int such a great stat for us?

 Elitist Jerks Restoration Itemization