Restoration Itemization - Page 32

Inorrri · 05/01/09, 3:24 AM

It was already calculated and tested Restoration Itemization and down from this post (*Note that my calculations are off, there's a post below with better)

My main question is if other people concider this a bug or take it as granted? Usually when something this major bugs out (25-30% healing potential loss from arguably the best set bonus for resto ever made is a huge bug in my view), there's an uproar, discussion, QQ, bug reports, etc and Blizzard finds out about it realy fast. And with this - nothing? How come?

Blackpatch · 05/01/09, 5:08 PM

"Take it easy" is the tree motto.

Eddyqw · 05/03/09, 12:25 PM

Assuming the 4pc T8 bonus ends up being modified to heal for the same amount as a Rejuvenation tick (I doubt it'll ever proc the glyph, although that would be nice): do people think its worthwhile when compared to the option of wearing ilvl 239 loot?

I've been assuming it is worthwhile (at least for raid healing) and put together the following "BiS" list:
Head: Conqueror's Nightsong Headpiece (Thorim-25)
Neck: Sapphire Amulet of Renewal (Iron Council-25-Hard)
Shoulder: Shoulderpads of Dormant Energies (Flame Leviathan-25-Hard)
Back: Sunglimmer Cloak (Algalon-25 Quest)
Chest: Conqueror's Nightsong Robe (Hodir-25)
Wrist: Grasps of Reason (XT-25-Hard)
Hands: Conqueror's Nightsong Handguards (Mimiron-25)
Waist: Belt of Arctic Life (Leatherworking)
Legs: Conqueror's Nightsong Leggings (Freya-25)
Feet: Boots of Fiery Resolution (Flame Leviathan-25-Hard)
Rings: Conductive Seal, Signet of Soft Lament (Mimiron-25-Hard, Yogg-Saron-10-Hard)
Trinkets: Show of Faith, Sif's Remembrance (Yogg-Saron-25-Hard, Thorim-10-Hard)
Weapon: Staff of Endless Winter (Hodir-25-Hard)
Ranged: Idol of the Flourishing Life (Trash Drop)

I'd welcome any thoughts, suggestions, etc

♦ Carebare · 05/03/09, 1:25 PM

I think it's hard to say X is always better than Y for all situations. From doing some hardmodes, I've found that I vary my gear depending on the fight - my glyphs as well. XT hardmode (on 10) required that I reglyph to include Rejuv, where as on most fights I find the extra healing it gives to be generally worthless. But during Tantrum when every extra bit helps, the 70k or so that it did during that time felt like it was very worthwhile. Same would go to the 4 piece bonus - there are several fights that the instant rejuv could be a lifesaving measure - but if you're not finding the raid to be near death throughout an encounter (or just a part of an encounter), whatever combination gives you the most spell power (presuming your longevity is not in question) is the better choice. Sometimes the important thing is "how much healing can I do RIGHT NOW" and other times the important thing is "how much healing can I do over the course of this fight?".

The short end is whatever works for you/your guild/the mechanics of the fight is the best choice for you at that time. Things really aren't as cut and dry as they used to be.

ttyl · 05/03/09, 6:19 PM

Originally Posted by Eddyqw

Shoulder: Shoulderpads of Dormant Energies (Flame Leviathan-25-Hard)
Chest: Conqueror's Nightsong Robe (Hodir-25)
Trinkets: Show of Faith, Sif's Remembrance (Yogg-Saron-25-Hard, Thorim-10-Hard)
Ranged: Idol of the Flourishing Life (Trash Drop)

Originally Posted by Playered

The currently best known (Algalon loot is still missing but..) offset piece to take is this chest because quite honestly it is perfectly itemized in almost every way for us. It also has the benefit of taking away one of the critical strike pieces in favor of haste whereas using the gloves would be a critical strike for critical strike trade.

Besides that, I would prefer Illustration over Sif's Remembrance for throughput and Spark of Hope over it for regen. And thank you for listing that idol, it gave me a good morning laugh!

khel · 05/04/09, 5:21 AM

Originally Posted by Eddyqw

BiS List

The 3 trinkets that I would prefer to use are [Illustration of the Dragon Soul], [Pandora's Plea], and [Spark of Hope]. Pandora's is a great compromise between mana regen and thoroughput, where IDS is the best choice for raw thoroughput, and Spark is the best choice for raw efficiency.

Also, for keeping the 4set t8 bonus, I plan to break the set with [Handwraps of the Vigilant] instead of [Shoulderpads of Dormant Energies].

I am using rough estimates for stat values based on my own playstyle and typical raid role, where I generally keep hots on the tank(s) and raid heal. Crit and haste are largely worthless as I very rarely hardcast anything other than regrowth, and I have still not gone out of mana yet so value thoroughput much more than efficiency. My Lootrank

Paininabox · 05/04/09, 1:40 PM

Breaking news:

We have received many questions about how the proc works on Val’anyr, the Hammer of the Ancient Kings. While we originally intended for this effect to be a mystery, we realize that guilds now know what the tooltip on the proc says without necessarily knowing the details on how it works. This leads to situations where a healer may not know if assembling the hammer is worth it for them (hint: it is), and perhaps even worse, a misinformed leader may not think you deserve the hammer (hint: you do).

Players also wonder if the proc makes the item deserving of its legendary status given that the stat allocation is normal for items of its item level (Hint: it does).

The effect reads “Your healing spells have a chance to cause Blessing of Ancient Kings for 15 seconds allowing your heals to shield the target absorbing damage equal to 15% of the amount healed.”

The way this works is that when the proc happens (which is a 10% chance whenever a hot or direct spell heals, with a 45 sec internal cooldown) you gain a buff (the Blessing) on yourself. Now all of your heals for the next 15 sec cause an 8 sec damage shield. The shield stacks with itself. It includes healing done by subsequent ticks of existing hots on the target. Note that the spell has to actually heal, so hots ticking on a fully-healed target cannot cause the proc. However the shield is based on the size of the heal itself, not the amount healed – i.e. 100% overhealing will not proc the Blessing on the healer, but the shield itself includes overhealing once the Blessing is active. The shield can grow to a maximum size of 20,000 damage absorbed.

Example 1: A paladin casts Holy Light for 10K on the tank, which partially heals her. The Blessing procs, so the paladin’s Holy Light immediately causes a shield on the tank which will now absorb 1500 damage. The tank dodges the next two hits, so no damage is absorbed. The paladin then casts another heal for 8K, but only heals the tank for 600 before she is at full health. The shield is now at 2700 damage absorbed (1500 + 1200) for 8 sec.

Example 2: A druid casts Rejuv on the tank, healing her. The Blessing procs on the druid on the second tick. A shield is applied to the tank which absorbs 15% of the amount healed by that tick and each remaining tick of the Rejuv. If the druid also gets Lifebloom and Regrowth on the tank while the Blessing is up, then those ticks also contribute to the shield. If the shield goes down because the 8 sec duration expires or it absorbs that much damage, it can go up again as long as the Blessing lasts, which is 15 sec.

Source: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Val’anyr, Hammer of the Ancient Kings

It appears, to me at least, that this effect is pretty strong for druids. It doesn't seem to favor paladins any more than a druid, in my opinion.

Some preliminary calculations:

Using this formula, I compute that the proc will have 27% uptime assuming an average 1.1 seconds between casts. Thus 27% of the time healing is increased by 15%, or an average ~4% increase in overall healing. Who cares about the stats, that's a huge upgrade.

Fydor · 05/04/09, 2:09 PM

I think the only downside to having a druid use it would be the internal cooldown on the blessing. As a druid, unless you are purely main tank healing you most likely have HoTs running on a couple targets, the fear would be the sheild would proc on a target that doesnt gain much benifit from it (aka some random dps).

Reading it again though, it could be that any heal to any target will cause a sheild so long as the caster has the blessing of ancient kings buff; if that is the case then in the hands of a raid healing druid this would be invaluable.

"Now all of your heals for the next 15 sec cause an 8 sec damage shield." This makes me think the second idea is more accurate. Sounds interesting.

Playered · 05/04/09, 2:14 PM

It is still unclear if a full overheal tick will provide a shield once the proc is active however.

"But once the blessing is active, then all of your healing spells will contribute to the bubble even if they do no actual healing. "

You can understand the requirement for a non-overhealing spell to cause the proc but after the mechanics of hots have been in place for so long there is nothing to show that they will work differently now for when the proc is active.

Paininabox · 05/04/09, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by Fydor

Reading it again though, it could be that any heal to any target will cause a sheild so long as the caster has the blessing of ancient kings buff; if that is the case then in the hands of a raid healing druid this would be invaluable.

Yeah, that's how I read it. It really depends on the fight. If there is a lot of raid damage and the thing procs when you have a third to a half of the raid hot'd, that could add up to a lot of extra damage prevention because it will work off of heals cast before the proc occurs. The only real question I have is if when the shield is based off of total healing including overhealing, does this include full overheal HoT ticks? I'm hoping it does, because that would really euthanize the "lol give it to ur pallies" junk floating around. I have high hopes, because it does seem like they've put in some new tech to get this proc to work.

Oktan · 05/04/09, 2:20 PM

the shield itself includes overhealing once the Blessing is active

I'm a little confused on this. Does this mean there is a server side mechanic, of some sort, to track hots that are over healing once the weapon procs? I am under the impression that hots don't tick if the target is at 100%. If the target is at 95% and your hot brings them to 100% with some over heal, then that shield is applied, right?

Paininabox · 05/04/09, 2:26 PM

GC answering some questions about it:

To answer some questions:

1) If you are lucky enough to have two hammers in your group, then they will both contribute to the same bubble.

2) It should work as you would expect with PW:Shield and similar effects. Specifically, the damage should work through one shield and then the other. I don't know off the top of my head which one is used first. Sometimes we have edge cases with multiple absorbs like this that we will need to solve as they arise. (To be clear, PW:Shield will not proc the blessing or the bubble though, because it does not heal.)

3) If you have the blessing (i.e. you caused healing and the proc occured) then overhealing will count towards the bubble. Hots that tick on a target will still contribute to the bubble. You can also choose to switch to a direct heal if you don't have enough GCDs available to get all of your hots up before the blessing fades. The confusing part here is that hots that don't heal won't cause the blessing (we didn't want you fishing for the bubble before a pull by constantly healing the tank, though I suppose you could if your tank was injured). But once the blessing is active, then all of your healing spells will contribute to the bubble even if they do no actual healing.

We'll leave it to you guys to theorycraft out if you think the hammer is marginally better for one class than another. Some players were speculating before this announcement that the bubble only applied to one spell, which would definitely favor Holy Light. We implemented it the way we did to make sure the other healing classes could still get juicy bubbles while the blessing was active (which is 15 sec).

In the same thread as before.

SkagasmAddict · 05/04/09, 5:08 PM

Originally Posted by Paininabox

Using this formula, I compute that the proc will have 27% uptime assuming an average 1.1 seconds between casts. Thus 27% of the time healing is increased by 15%, or an average ~4% increase in overall healing. Who cares about the stats, that's a huge upgrade.

This is indeed an awesome increase, but unless I'm reading the information wrong it seems that this would have an even greater up time for druids (right up to the 32-33%) depending on how many HoTs you have ticking at the time the ICD is up.

I read it as any heal that isn't 100% overheal will have a 10% chance to proc the buff and that it procs off of HoTs. Just having a WG up and ticking on 6 targets almost guarantees a proc within a few seconds. Add in a compliment of HoTs on a tank or Rejuvs ticking all over the raid and you're talking about 10+ chances to proc it per second. The only thing that could compete with that is JoL.

I also suspect the proc may have great synergy with the huge bloom of a lifebloom triple stack.

ttyl · 05/04/09, 5:19 PM

(To be clear, PW:Shield will not proc the blessing or the bubble though, because it does not heal.)

Ok, so it's horrible for Disc Priests?

I still think it would be best in the hands of a Holy Paladin... How many bosses could a tank consistently benefit from a 8sec 10k shield versus how many bosses could a raid benefit from a 8sec 2k+ shield (with ~1 ppm)?

Kysse · 05/04/09, 5:23 PM

Does anyone have a list of BiS Leather pieces from all current content?
There is one a few pages back, but it also includes Cloth, which is sometimes hard to get over a DPS or Priest.