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Old 05/15/09, 12:27 AM   #556
red
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Laughing Skull
Originally Posted by Vanguardor View Post
I am rather confused. Recently I was using Rawr to compare gear for different specs. I was rather surprised that for both specs, one being single target focus and the other being hot raid healing, it said that Int was by far the most important stat I needed.
Rawr's tree model is very poor. Continue doing what you're doing; don't change your gems around according to what it recommends.

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Old 05/15/09, 12:59 AM   #557
Paininabox
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Night Elf Druid
 
Runetotem
Originally Posted by grimtage View Post
I find the value of 855 haste without CF to be highly unlikely. I currently have 464 haste rating and have 1.02sec cast when NG has proc'd. I honestly don't see myself getting another 390 haste and not going sub-1s (I don't have CF). Is there any chance you could show me how you worked out the number 855? I simply took the percent haste required to get 1sec GCD with 0/5 GotEM and took the 20% from Nature's Grace away (I removed an extra 0.1%, as I think it's better to be below hard haste cap than just above), then converted to haste rating to get 609.

As for the chances of haste-capping Nourish. I know when I'm chain-casting (mostly Mimiron p1) I have every conceivable buff going to get my Nourish as close to 1sec as possible, I hope everyone else does.
The formula is here: Resto (PvE) Healing Discussion

(1.5)/((GearHaste/3279+1)*WoAT*IMA*NG)=1
1.5/(WoAT*IMA*NG)=GearHaste/3279+1
(1.5/(WoAT*IMA*NG))-1=GearHaste/3279
3279*(1.5/(1.05*1.03*(.5*1.2)))-3279=GearHaste

Notice that for nature's grace I assumed 50% uptime of the buff, therefore an average 10% across all casts. Yes, with it up your cast is ~1.01 seconds. Including full NG, you need a total of 510 haste to get to 1 second, but I'm not sure how to handle that buff since it's so peculiar.

Level 80 Restoration Druid Spreadsheet here.
(v1.41)

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Old 05/15/09, 2:37 AM   #558
red
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Laughing Skull
Originally Posted by Paininabox View Post
Notice that for nature's grace I assumed 50% uptime of the buff, therefore an average 10% across all casts. Yes, with it up your cast is ~1.01 seconds. Including full NG, you need a total of 510 haste to get to 1 second, but I'm not sure how to handle that buff since it's so peculiar.
You're computing the average cast time of Nourish? That's not very useful. I think his point was to prevent clipping when NG was active. The way you should handle the buff is simple. Cast time with it active and with it not active; two separate cases.

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Old 05/15/09, 8:05 PM   #559
cuddlekin
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Worgen Druid
 
Scilla
Originally Posted by red View Post
Rawr's tree model is very poor. Continue doing what you're doing; don't change your gems around according to what it recommends.
I agree, Rawr is not 100% correct for resto druids. Stay with gemming for SP.

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Old 05/15/09, 11:14 PM   #560
grimtage
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight (EU)
Originally Posted by Paininabox View Post
Notice that for nature's grace I assumed 50% uptime of the buff, therefore an average 10% across all casts. Yes, with it up your cast is ~1.01 seconds. Including full NG, you need a total of 510 haste to get to 1 second, but I'm not sure how to handle that buff since it's so peculiar.
To have 50% uptime with Nourish chain casting, you'd need to have 1 in 6 casts be crits as each Nourish crit lasts for 3 casts even at 1.25sec cast speed (i.e. no haste rating other than NG). I think it's safe to assume our crit rate is closer to 50%, not 17%, so even if the question was "average nourish cast time", assuming 50% is just wrong. Having 45% crit is no problem when raid buffed (20% from gear/raidbuffs and 25% from talents) and for Nourish to drop off we need 3 casts in a row not to crit, which is a 9.1%~ chance, so assuming a 90% uptime for NG when spamming Nourish feels a lot more real. Assuming you know that the chain casting will be required and you already proc'd NG waiting for the damage to be incoming.

However, back to the matter at hand. 510 haste sounds a lot closer to a haste hard cap number I expected. My next question is what do we do about this? Stacking crit is horrible, we all agree that. Dropping NG to get enough haste (I think it's about 1269 haste using your formula) sounds just as bad, and the gain from the 3 talent points is merely 3 in Tranquil Spirit for me (and a final point plus surplus in imp.tranq/emp.touch from GotEM points). I honestly don't know what gear to pick up any more. My only thought on the matter is that I wished NG always had 100% proc on crits and offered 7/14/20% haste, that way we could drop 1 point and stack more haste slowly, by taking points out of both GotEM and NG as our gear progressed.

With 800+ haste, I can see a build like: (yes, that's 1sec RJ/WG GCD)

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

working, but until our haste reaches that level, I can't see anything but just humping our GCDs and having sub-1s nourish casting. It's not like we're not used to sitting on our GCDs anyway. I'm totally out of ideas, I hate to just ask questions like a nub and not offer much in terms of answers but I don't see this answered anywhere on these forums. What is the best move after this haste hard cap?

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Old 05/17/09, 11:43 AM   #561
Fiarce
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Mage
 
Emerald Dream
Has there been any word if the current state of the T84Piece "lesser" tick on bonus is a bug at around 1500 (Not taking advantage of all the talents and not ticking for something closer to 2200*), or working as intended?



*That figure is purely based on gear assumptions.

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Old 05/17/09, 1:13 PM   #562
Playered
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
It does not get any benefit from Imp Rejuvenation, Gift of Nature or Genesis and there is no logical reason for it to get them so working as intended - despite how much many of us would want it to include them into the calculation.

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Old 05/17/09, 1:21 PM   #563
Old
Glass Joe
 
Troll Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
According to maths (I don't know if anyone already gave it), this instant heal from 4T8 seems to be : 0,45*SPELL+340,75

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Old 05/19/09, 6:37 PM   #564
Beregon
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eitrigg
Originally Posted by cuddlekin View Post
I agree, Rawr is not 100% correct for resto druids. Stay with gemming for SP.
The problem with Rawr's Tree Model seems to be that it weights longevity too heavily vs throughput. If you find the option and adjust it from 50/50 to something like 70/30 throughput, the results become more reasonable.

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Old 05/19/09, 7:35 PM   #565
Ezarg
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Uldum
Originally Posted by grimtage View Post
With 800+ haste, I can see a build like: (yes, that's 1sec RJ/WG GCD)

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I'm just curious why you would under any circumstances prefer 2 points in brambles (arguably OK but not that great) and 1 point in Starlight Wrath (absolutely useless) over 3 points in Nature's Grace?

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Old 05/19/09, 9:12 PM   #566
Harmankaya
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Worgen Priest
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Ezarg View Post
I'm just curious why you would under any circumstances prefer 2 points in brambles (arguably OK but not that great) and 1 point in Starlight Wrath (absolutely useless) over 3 points in Nature's Grace?
To not clip the gcd while nourish-spamming, which was the entire point with what he wrote.

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Old 05/20/09, 8:00 AM   #567
mhenrique85
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Tauren Druid
 
Llane
[Boots of the Petrified Forest] got buffed in 3.1.2.

It gives you now 93 SP, but little less spirit, 53. Good Haste Option for the Slot.

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Old 05/20/09, 3:27 PM   #568
quu
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Earthen Ring
On the very first page of this thread, there is a breakdown of how Gift of the Earthmother has soft caps as far as haste goes. On the chart "Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura" it lists 10.95% as the soft cap for 5/5 of Gift of the Earthmother.

I am trying to figure out where the missing percent is. Wrath of Air gives 5%, and then Improved Moonkin Aura gives another 3%, for a total off 8%. 10.95% + 5% + 3% = 18.95% ... still 1% shy of the 19,95% needed for a 1 second GCD.

or am I missing something?

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Old 05/20/09, 3:33 PM   #569
Paininabox
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Runetotem
Originally Posted by quu View Post
On the very first page of this thread, there is a breakdown of how Gift of the Earthmother has soft caps as far as haste goes. On the chart "Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura" it lists 10.95% as the soft cap for 5/5 of Gift of the Earthmother.

I am trying to figure out where the missing percent is. Wrath of Air gives 5%, and then Improved Moonkin Aura gives another 3%, for a total off 8%. 10.95% + 5% + 3% = 18.95% ... still 1% shy of the 19,95% needed for a 1 second GCD.

or am I missing something?
Yes, you're missing the fact that the buff haste is multiplicative with the haste percent, as shown in the formula here Resto (PvE) Healing Discussion. For example:

1.5(1-.2)/(1.03*1.05)= 1.1095 or 10.95% haste from haste rating to hit the soft cap.

Level 80 Restoration Druid Spreadsheet here.
(v1.41)

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Old 05/20/09, 3:37 PM   #570
quu
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Paininabox View Post
Yes, you're missing the fact that the buff haste is multiplicative with the haste percent, as shown in the formula here Resto (PvE) Healing Discussion. For example:

1.5(1-.2)/(1.03*1.05)= 1.1095 or 10.95% haste from haste rating to hit the soft cap.
ok, thanks... they are multiplicative, not additive, that was my mistake, thank you very much... I assume Celestial Focus is the same way, which suddenly makes the math make sense to me.

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