Restoration Itemization - Page 40

cuddlekin · 05/27/09, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by DirkyD

I have 3 items of gear which hold non-red sockets, which give +sp bonus's.

By having to replace them with correct coloured gems, both to meet the socket bonus, and now to meet the meta, I lose about 30 ish spell power from this change.

I run at about +2700sp raid buffed so its a ~1% decrease in spell power.

Yeah. For myself I would lose 15 Spellpower and 6 Spirit while maintaining meta requirements.

SkagasmAddict · 05/28/09, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by cuddlekin

Yeah. For myself I would lose 15 Spellpower and 6 Spirit while maintaining meta requirements, which is a loss of 0.005% in spellpower and a 0.0043% loss in spirit.

I'm going to assume you don't have 300,000 SP, and you mean it's a .5% loss in spell power.

cuddlekin · 05/29/09, 2:50 AM

Originally Posted by SkagasmAddict

I'm going to assume you don't have 300,000 SP, and you mean it's a .5% loss in spell power.

Yes I are fail. I always suck with zeros.

Nathadir · 05/29/09, 7:28 AM

Right now I'm sitting at 2950 sp raidbuffed, with 420 haste and 620 mp5 (while casting). At the moment there is only one fight where I feel limited on mana - and that's Iron Council hardmode. Even then, the biggest problem for in P3 is basically generating enough throughput to keep the raid up. Any tips as to what I improve on here, gear wise; or talent-wise for that matter? You can view my Armory profile here, if you want.

Derin · 05/29/09, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Nathadir

Right now I'm sitting at 2950 sp raidbuffed, with 420 haste and 620 mp5 (while casting). At the moment there is only one fight where I feel limited on mana - and that's Iron Council hardmode. Even then, the biggest problem for in P3 is basically generating enough throughput to keep the raid up. Any tips as to what I improve on here, gear wise; or talent-wise for that matter? You can view my Armory profile here, if you want.

Same for me. I am finishing Iron Council hardmode with about 500 mana after mana pot. Second fight for me is Thorim hardmode but because I put there my stamina gear

Therefore I am big fun of SP>mana regen. For mana problems fight I only switch trinkets and sometimes put myself with mana tide.
For me if I dont finish fight with less than 30% mana I am bad geared for this fight (too much mana regen) and I am switching for HPS gear.

Relinor · 05/29/09, 10:45 AM

Maybe this should be in the Healing Discussion, but the crux of the post is about Haste Values and Nourish Clipping.

I'm currently looking to move points out of GotE, probably down to 3/5, and to reach 3/3 Celestial Focus with a spec like 18/0/53. To keep a 1.0s GCD on HoTs the OP suggests 606 Haste Rating is required (raid buffed), which is easily obtainable assuming all non-set items have Haste rating instead of Crit, whilst still maintaining the standard amounts of SP/Regen. I'm around 580 Haste right now with a Crit Amulet equipped (Armoury is down for maintenance, but its Relinor, Arathor realm).

The sense behind this spec is to have Nourish cast as fast as possible without relying on Nature's Grace, hence reaching CF. I lose one point from Revitalise, but I don't value that Talent much, and one more point from Tranquil Spirit when I don't currently have mana problems.

My main concern is:
Given nourish is around 1.1s casting speed at 616 Haste and 3/3 CF. When NG procs and Nourish hits a 0.9s cast speed, will it actually be detrimental because it will interfere with the spell queuing? Both these casting speeds are according to Quartz cast bar, in-game with a WoA totem and Imp. Moonkin Aura in my group. I assume these numbers are rounded up/down from a more exact value.

If NG is detrimental, it would be possible miss it and waste four points in Brambles + X to still gain CE. Feels messy, but two of those points have come from the redundant GotE anyway.

I realise spell queuing and clipping Nourish was discussed a couple of pages back, but there did not seem to be a definite conclusion, or a cast speed mentioned where the spell queuing certainly becomes a problem. Possibly at 0.9s it is not a problem, I don't know.

Secondly, when getting to hardmode encounters, am I likely to want more points in Tranquil Spirit? To achieve this I can drop Revitalise all together, or admit defeat and not reach CF. I expect that a Meta Gem/Trinket change will have more impact on mana regeneration than Tranquil Spirit anyway.

Finally, the reason I am looking at CF at all is because I do not value the other options for the spare points, namely Revatalise/Nature's Perfection and Tranquil Spirit. I consider CF at least as a clear way to increase healing output, or the speed of our basic upfront heal, which may occasionally save someone from a close death. Should I value one, or all of these other options as more beneficial than the 'wasted' points achieving CF and its effect? Personally I would much rather have a strong end-tree talent that we'd definitely want to spend our points on, but I guess you have to make do with what you're given.

cuddlekin · 05/29/09, 7:53 PM

Originally Posted by Relinor

Maybe this should be in the Healing Discussion, but the crux of the post is about Haste Values and Nourish Clipping.

I'm currently looking to move points out of GotE, probably down to 3/5, and to reach 3/3 Celestial Focus with a spec like 18/0/53. To keep a 1.0s GCD on HoTs the OP suggests 606 Haste Rating is required (raid buffed), which is easily obtainable assuming all non-set items have Haste rating instead of Crit, whilst still maintaining the standard amounts of SP/Regen. I'm around 580 Haste right now with a Crit Amulet equipped (Armoury is down for maintenance, but its Relinor, Arathor realm).

The sense behind this spec is to have Nourish cast as fast as possible without relying on Nature's Grace, hence reaching CF. I lose one point from Revitalise, but I don't value that Talent much, and one more point from Tranquil Spirit when I don't currently have mana problems.

I realise spell queuing and clipping Nourish was discussed a couple of pages back, but there did not seem to be a definite conclusion, or a cast speed mentioned where the spell queuing certainly becomes a problem. Possibly at 0.9s it is not a problem, I don't know.

Secondly, when getting to hardmode encounters, am I likely to want more points in Tranquil Spirit? To achieve this I can drop Revitalise all together, or admit defeat and not reach CF. I expect that a Meta Gem/Trinket change will have more impact on mana regeneration than Tranquil Spirit anyway.

Finally, the reason I am looking at CF at all is because I do not value the other options for the spare points, namely Revatalise/Nature's Perfection and Tranquil Spirit. I consider CF at least as a clear way to increase healing output, or the speed of our basic upfront heal, which may occasionally save someone from a close death. Should I value one, or all of these other options as more beneficial than the 'wasted' points achieving CF and its effect? Personally I would much rather have a strong end-tree talent that we'd definitely want to spend our points on, but I guess you have to make do with what you're given.

If you want more throughput then you should be putting the extra points in Natural Perfection and not Revitalize as in 18/0/53. To reach that much haste, which I was at before upgrades thus having only 3 points in GotEM, it requires you to use some Mp5 items over items with spirit/crit which is not advisable. Also, as you upgrade your gear to T8 you will be losing haste in places such as your belt, boots, cloak, and pants/glove combo. As for hard modes you would be better suited switching your meta to Insightful as well trying to get regen from outside sources such as Mana Tide and Hymn of Hope, with both of these I was very comfortable on mana during IC hard. Then if you still need more help with mana you could take points out of Natural Perfection to add to Tranquil Spirit.

Originally Posted by Relinor

Given nourish is around 1.1s casting speed at 616 Haste and 3/3 CF. When NG procs and Nourish hits a 0.9s cast speed, will it actually be detrimental because it will interfere with the spell queuing? Both these casting speeds are according to Quartz cast bar, in-game with a WoA totem and Imp. Moonkin Aura in my group. I assume these numbers are rounded up/down from a more exact value.

If NG is detrimental, it would be possible miss it and waste four points in Brambles + X to still gain CE. Feels messy, but two of those points have come from the redundant GotE anyway.

You can set Quartz to show a more accurate casting time by going into the options and extending the decimal range for cast times by adjusting a slider to show 1.987 for example. And, at least for myself there is no noticeable clipping of the GCD with a .9 sec nourish.

Croga · 05/30/09, 1:55 AM

Originally Posted by Allinone

I would highly advise against gearing with any sort of assumption that you will dip outside the 5sr. While on many fights its both natural and possible to get that extra mana regen, I am under the school of thought that you gear/gem for a worst case scenario.

Worst vase scenario nowadays (mana regen wise) is General Vezax hard mode in which case item stat weighing will take a very dramatic topple towards INT, even over SP as throughput needs to be optimised instead of maximised whilst longevity needs to be maximised.

From a healer point of view (and much more specifically a Druid healer point of view) this is the hardest fight to gear for at the moment. Most other fights can be winged if your gear isn't optimised for it but this one *needs* the correct gear.

grimtage · 05/30/09, 8:52 AM

Originally Posted by Nathadir

Right now I'm sitting at 2950 sp raidbuffed, with 420 haste and 620 mp5 (while casting). At the moment there is only one fight where I feel limited on mana - and that's Iron Council hardmode. Even then, the biggest problem for in P3 is basically generating enough throughput to keep the raid up. Any tips as to what I improve on here, gear wise; or talent-wise for that matter? You can view my Armory profile here, if you want.

Change your meta gem to Insightful. I've tested it over and over and I've always got it as 60-65mp5 + 21 int. That's significantly better than your current one, which should be around 30 int but only 25 sp. So you're basically comparing 60mp vs 9 int and 25 sp. I know which one is miles better for stat expenditure.

p.s. I always assume my innervate goes to a shammy since 3.1.2.

slourette · 06/02/09, 11:40 PM

Has anyone calculated a set of stat weights for haste and spell power (and maybe crit) before the haste cap? I couldn't find it anywhere and I would like to know how much haste I should be willing to give up for spell power (or vise versa) while gearing up. I tried to derive some stuff on my own, but it got very complicated before I could get to anything conclusive. Even a rough estimate would be nice, it feels really silly to just go with the item with the better iLevel.

Here's a bit of the calculations I was doing, just to see if I'm missing anything...

Rejuvenation:

HPS = HasteCorrection * Healing / CastTime
HPS = (HASTE/3279 + 1) * (BaseHealing + SpellCoefficient * SP) / 1.5
HPS = (HASTE/3279 + 1) * (1690 + 3.233 * SP) / 1.5

d/dHaste (HPS) = 1690/3279/1.5 + 3.233/3279/1.5 * SP = 0.3436 + 0.0006573 * SP
d/dSP (HPS) = 3.233/1.5 + 3.233/3279/1.5 * HASTE = 2.155 + 0.0006573 * HASTE

d(HSP) = (0.3436 + 0.0006573 * SP) * d(Haste) + (2.155 + 0.0006573 * HASTE)* d(SP)

My SP = 2000
My Haste = 450

d(HSP) = (1.6582) * d(Haste) + (2.4508)* d(SP)

so if my only spell is rejuv, I should gear according to 1.5 Haste = 1 SP to maximize Hps.

Is this on the right track? I'm not sure how to add GotEM into the calculations. My guess is to just change the 1 to a 1.2 in the HasteCorrection.

EDIT: Ok, for GotEM, I change the cast time from 1.5 to a 1.2. This gives me the correct haste cap of 655. It also interestingly appears to have no effect on the stat weights, since it modifies every term equally.

Meta|Gear · 06/04/09, 3:35 PM

Whats the deal with int now? I was reading a couple posts back before 3.1 where several people commented that int would be better for regen with the innervate change, is this true? Do you think it would be worth gemming pure int on my raid heal set? (I am primarily tank healing)

Lightflower · 06/04/09, 8:37 PM

Originally Posted by Meta|Gear

Whats the deal with int now? I was reading a couple posts back before 3.1 where several people commented that int would be better for regen with the innervate change, is this true? Do you think it would be worth gemming pure int on my raid heal set? (I am primarily tank healing)

Yes Int is better for regen but gemming for Int over SP is a bad decision. If you're having severe mana troubles even with Innervating yourself you can ask for Mana Tide or switch your spec/glyphs around to optimise for tank healing.

Meta|Gear · 06/04/09, 9:35 PM

delete

dwynn · 06/13/09, 2:37 PM

What Values can i plug into Pawn for Arenas as Resto?

Cathiecj · 06/14/09, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by Norfair

Gear list
People often come here and ask what is best in slot for resto druids. For druids this isn't always very clear since every player has different preferences. Almost all druid gear has the following stats: stamina, intellect, spellpower, a manaregen stat (mp5 or spirit) and an additional stat (often haste or crit). Usually the spirit-based items are better as they give more mana per itembudget point and also provide more spellpower (through improved ToL talent) compared to a mp5-item of the same itemlevel. Since spellpower is the best way to increase output for a druid, it is still best to find items with the most spellpower on them. This also goes for gemming: use 19 spellpower for red, 9 spellpower/8 spirit for blue and 9 spellpower/8 intellect for yellow if the socket bonus is worth it.

Further it is advised to stack haste until you have at least reached the softcap so that your global cooldowns will be 1 second within a usual raid setting. After that it becomes a lot of personal preference, as then both haste and crit will only affect your direct heals (save for the "bloom" and Swiftmend as they can crit) which you will be using a lot less compared to your instant hots. Crit has the benefit of making your heals more mana efficient and has synergy with the Nature's Grace and Living Seed talents, while haste is cheaper on itembudget level and is more reliable compared to crit.

For a pre-Ulduar list, you can go see this post: http://elitistjerks.com/1113202-post373.html.
An early Ulduar BiS list by Goomp: Restoration Itemization

Updated on May 11th to reflect 3.1 changes.

Is there an Ulduar non-hardmode list made?