Restoration Itemization - Page 44

Sicosis · 07/28/09, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Zoltair

@Sicosis

Your post contains no 'constants'. Not to mention you have no WoL or WMO parses to investigate the reasoning between the EHPS. You and the other healer are too different people fighting an encounter that is like a snowflake... no two encounters are identical. Maybe the timing of your blooming LB's is better causing more heals rather then Overhealing, maybe you happen to have more rejuv's on the melee during static disruptions, maybe you are Swiftmending on more cooldowns or more effectively, maybe your WG consistently hit more targets on use, maybe a priests PoH was hitting more of your friends targets reducing the amount Rejuv heals. My point is that your 'test' has far too many variables to discuss.

Understandable, I'll put some WoL parses up then.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis <-- The other druid isn't in that particular attempt because she either wasn't in the guild yet, or wasn't online. Forgot the reason. But I found a parse of her on that fight without me in there. The parses I have with both of us in there are medium-mode kills.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis <-- There's a parse with her in it.

Just letting you know this up front, I'm not here to get in some pissing contest or flex an e-peen...I'm just questioning haste vs crit come 3.2. And those healing differences between me and her are the same for just about every encounter depending on if we're both on raid, or one of is on the tank while the other is on raid, etc. etc.

Your friend, whether he/she does so or not, mathematically has the ability to cast more spells in the same period of time then you. This is not really debatable (besides latency differential). On IC Hard mode, something tells me you are not using very many critable spells anyways, so what your crit rating is at seems mostly negligable to me.

Trust me, this I know lol. Again, not trying to debate it, I'm wondering crit vs haste in 3.2...I don't really care about 3.1 right now.

Orin · 07/28/09, 2:37 PM

Sicosis,

Since you are not at the soft-cap for Haste, you cannot be casting Rejuv/WG as efficiently as you should. So no, your HoTs don't work just fine because you aren't able to cast as many as you could by increasing your haste rating. Crit does not help these spells either. For the IC hard-mode fight, this is all I do. Rejuv and WG spam on cooldown. When I am the only resto druid, I can easily reach 9500 hps consistently. When we have done it with 2 Resto Druids we both get in the 6k to 7k range because more of our heals get cut off by eachother.

What I noticed however is that the other primary Resto Druid in our raids is very skilled for sure, he out-gears me and probably has faster reaction times. Unfortunately his computer drops to nearly 1fps in this fight, and a bunch of other hard-modes. So regardless of his skill, the computer hardware holds him back at times.

So in regards to your question, I think it is rather easy to hit the soft-cap for haste in 25man raiding. If you think it is hard, you need to spend a little time analyzing gear choices. Go back to IC Steelbreaker with the proper soft-cap, focus on Rejuv/WG spam, win the meter game. :P

In 3.2 my opinion is that staying a soft-cap for Haste is still my #1 goal, then focus stats into spell power and crit rating. Regen stat choices may or may not need tweaking with the loss of the Rejuv idol, time will tell.

Erdluf · 07/28/09, 2:43 PM

Sicosis,

Your log shows over 90 Rj ticks/minute. Her log shows less than 60 Rj ticks/minute.

Crits were about 5% of your total heals. The bulk of the HPS difference between the logs is not due to crit.

Sicosis · 07/28/09, 2:44 PM

Originally Posted by Orin

Sicosis,

Since you are not at the soft-cap for Haste, you cannot be casting Rejuv/WG as efficiently as you should.

Right, I understand that too, like I said, I was testing a different sort of gear for the questioning of the critable Rejuvs for 3.2 and seeing how well I could still heal compared to a druid with haste. And TBH, I don't think I do too bad either.

What I noticed however is that the other primary Resto Druid in our raids is very skilled for sure, he out-gears me and probably has faster reaction times. Unfortunately his computer drops to nearly 1fps in this fight, and a bunch of other hard-modes. So regardless of his skill, the computer hardware holds him back at times.

I outgear the other healer just by a couple pieces, but I don't know about her FPS. She never complains about it, so I don't think that's an issue either. No offense though.

So in regards to your question, I think it is rather easy to hit the soft-cap for haste in 25man raiding. If you think it is hard, you need to spend a little time analyzing gear choices. Go back to IC Steelbreaker with the proper soft-cap, focus on Rejuv/WG spam, win the meter game. :P

I have the gear for the haste soft cap, I just am not using it at the moment. It's all been banked for my little test. And I still win the meter game with an assload of crit and sub 200 haste :P And nah, it's not hard to hit the haste cap lol.

Regen stat choices may or may not need tweaking with the loss of the Rejuv idol, time will tell.

Explain that one?

Sicosis · 07/28/09, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by Erdluf

Sicosis,

Your log shows over 90 Rj ticks/minute. Her log shows less than 60 Rj ticks/minute.

Crits were about 5% of your total heals. The bulk of the HPS difference between the logs is not due to crit.

/sigh

Again.....looking at 3.2. Not current boring ass 3.1 :P Critting Rejuvs just looks sexy to me. THAT is why I'm questioning crit and that is why I was testing something.

Playered · 07/28/09, 3:11 PM

Originally Posted by Sicosis

Explain that one?

The new RJ idol is pretty much a passive 234 SP boost and the only real reason we have kept the current idol was due to nothing better being available (as Blizzard insisted on pushing Nourish for a while).

As our mana consumption has not exactly gone up by much (thanks to being haste soft-capped early on) and due to the nature of the itemization design our basic mana regeneration will always increase on most gear resulting in items like the idol and potentially trinkets are the first (and only?) ones you switch out to compensate.

Ideally there should be a bit more choice in regards to mana regeneration than an idol, two trinkets and a meta gem but this is a general problem among all healers at the moment and Blizzards action in 3.1 has done little to make mana matter as they wished, but rather kept it from being a completly ignorable factor within the game... for now.

Sicosis · 07/28/09, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Playered

The new RJ idol is pretty much a passive 239(?) SP boost and the only real reason we have kept the current idol was due to nothing better being available (as Blizzard insisted on pushing Nourish for a while).

Just Googled it, holy balls that's nice. I must've missed that on MMO-Champion :x

Erdluf · 07/28/09, 3:16 PM

Sicosis,

If you aren't at a Haste soft cap, and you don't have any latency, 1% more haste means nearly 1% more of everything you do, unless you have to waste the time on something less efficient (can't toss Rj, because my entire 10-man already has it).

1% more crit means some of our spells heal for nearly 1% more on average (Swiftmend, Regrowth DH, NS+HT, Nourish), some heal for nearly 0.5% more on average (Lb bloom, 4t9 Rj) and some gain no benefit (Rebirth, Tranquility, Innervate, Remove Curse, Abolish Poison, Lb HoT, Rg HoT, pre 4t9 Rj).

1% crit costs a lot more itemization than 1% haste. Until it starts running into various caps, haste is a better value.

sivart33 · 07/30/09, 9:18 PM

Originally Posted by Erdluf

Sicosis,

If you aren't at a Haste soft cap, and you don't have any latency, 1% more haste means nearly 1% more of everything you do, unless you have to waste the time on something less efficient (can't toss Rj, because my entire 10-man already has it).

1% more crit means some of our spells heal for nearly 1% more on average (Swiftmend, Regrowth DH, NS+HT, Nourish), some heal for nearly 0.5% more on average (Lb bloom, 4t9 Rj) and some gain no benefit (Rebirth, Tranquility, Innervate, Remove Curse, Abolish Poison, Lb HoT, Rg HoT, pre 4t9 Rj).

1% crit costs a lot more itemization than 1% haste. Until it starts running into various caps, haste is a better value.

I highly disagree with this. 1% haste is way greater then 1% crit, the crit mostly is over heals, unless a life and death situation. In that situation i would rather have my GCD over faster due to in case i just casted a rejuve/LB/or WG i can swiftmend that much faster to save someone. In high raid damage fights being able to toss rejuves on raid and also regrowths on the tank is way better then a 1% chance to crit when the tank damage is prity much constant.
Also now we are raid heals, and to keep tanks hotted up. There are other classes that are MT heals (pallys and shammys) so we are jsut for topping off tank with hots and we do have the fastest instant/greatest heal swiftmend and it is way better to be off GCD to hit that asap in a bad moment.

I am putting in the fact that you are close to a 1 sec gcd with rejuve, lifebloom, and wild growth.

killamanz · 08/01/09, 2:37 PM

i may have missed it (if i did i apologize) has there been any discussion about [Aesuga, Hand of the Ardent Champion]? curious to see what others think of it..

Minizeke · 08/01/09, 4:35 PM

Killamanz there's nothing bad about Aesuga. Socket it with a runed ruby and it's not far behind the 239 weapons we can get. Haste and crit are both stats that can be used on a druid and in my opinion looking for weapons with mp5 or spirit just isn't as appealing as it used to be.

That being said...

Anyone have any numbers behind using [Meteorite Crystal]?

I have been using [Sif's Remembrance] and [Spark of Hope] normally but recently picked up the meteorite crystal.

Assuming the current content I can't think of a fight where mana is an issue with my own innervate and MAYBE a mana pot. As a druid it's extremely easy to get the meteorite crystal to stack to 20 before the effect runs out which makes me wonder if I should replace my spark of hope.

sivart33 · 08/01/09, 6:50 PM

From just looking at the wowhead link, [Meteorite Crystal] is 2400 mana, from the use of course.

So it still seems that on the [Spark of Hope] the spell power bonus due to the spirit, and the equip effect is way better then [Sif's Remembrance] and well the Meteorite Crystal just gives back a ton of mana.

Now [Sif's Remembrance] has an internal CD of 45 sec. so in any fight in 2 min you would only get 456( just mental math so could be a few off) and 2400>then 456 any day, but you will loss SP and SP is just a greater stat for druids, but mana efficiency comes into play when you go OOM.

So personally i would use [Spark of Hope] and [Meteorite Crystal] in a mana intense fight.

killamanz · 08/02/09, 3:14 AM

Thanks Mini, really havent seen much about it as far as for resto druids

grimtage · 08/02/09, 8:10 AM

EDIT: Deleted post.

lairpie · 08/03/09, 4:13 PM

Originally Posted by Minizeke

Anyone have any numbers behind using [Meteorite Crystal]?

I have been using [Sif's Remembrance] and [Spark of Hope] normally but recently picked up the meteorite crystal.

Assuming the current content I can't think of a fight where mana is an issue with my own innervate and MAYBE a mana pot. As a druid it's extremely easy to get the meteorite crystal to stack to 20 before the effect runs out which makes me wonder if I should replace my spark of hope.

Spark of hope:
Say you cast every second in a 5 minute fight that's 12,600 mana saved. Say you're a little slower and cast every 1.2 seconds, that's 10,500 mana back.

Meteorite crystal:
In that 5 minute fight you get 3 uses. It provides a stacking bonus of 12 mana per second. So if you're casting once per second in the use you get 12 + 24 + 36 + 48...+240=2640 mana per use, so 7920 mana in a 5 minute fight. Obviously if you cast a little slower, you'll get even less back.

Sif's:
In a 5 minute fight you'll get about 6 procs worth 468 mana each, so 2808 in that 5 minute fight. But the 110 spellpower is clearly better than the int or spirit on the other two trinkets.

Comparison:
Spark is a pretty clear winner over meteorite crystal, dominating it in mana returned. The exact balance of mana vs spellpower's value is always going to be subjective, but I'd say if you don't need the mana from spark of hope, you should absolutely be doing double spellpower trinkets not spirit or int. I don't think I'd ever really take the additional mana of Meteorite crystal over the spellpower of sif's but again, that's subjective and depends how well you can manage your mana.

When it comes down to it, the massive intellect trinket is aimed at the classes stacking and gemming for int like shamans and paladins, not druids.